Philippe Paradis/Tyler Biggs -- Why?

DarkHorse2

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
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What made the Hurricanes draft Paradis in the first round in 2009 and Toronto draft Biggs in the first in 2011? They never played in the NHL, and their pre-draft stats were hardly impressive:

Paradise:
upload_2019-2-12_15-29-48.png


Biggs:
upload_2019-2-12_15-30-18.png


Any ideas? Or better, pre-draft scouting reports?
 

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Cardiac Jerks

Asinine & immoral
Jan 13, 2006
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The rumour regarding Paradis is that he was originally being targeted to be or second round pick. As the story goes, right before our first a lot of guys on our list were drafted and they were left on the clock not knowing what to do so they took the next available guy on their list.

Whether that’s true or not I obviously can’t tell you but it’s long been speculated to be the case.

Just a brutal player. Went through a few organizations and never had more than 16 points in an ahl season. Luckily we were able to turn him into a few good years of Tlusty. Paradis retired and then came back playing a year in the LNAH goon league. This year he’s playing in a league I’ve honestly never heard of before, the Alps hockey league.
 

ESH

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Jun 19, 2011
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Tyler Biggs was supposed to become a tough powerforward, and I’m pretty sure the idea around when he was drafted was that he would still be a solid bottom-6er even if he didn’t max out his potential. Obviously that didn’t happen.

For what it’s worth, I think Biggs and Tom Wilson were pretty similar level prospects at the time of their drafts.
 

HolyGhost

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May 6, 2016
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Buffalo
What made the Hurricanes draft Paradis in the first round in 2009 and Toronto draft Biggs in the first in 2011? They never played in the NHL, and their pre-draft stats were hardly impressive:

Paradise:
View attachment 185915

Biggs:
View attachment 185917

Any ideas? Or better, pre-draft scouting reports?


Because stats is the only way to actually judge a player, not by actually watching them? There is more to judging prospects than just stats
 

KingJoffrey

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Jan 30, 2014
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It's miss or hit with these guys. And it will take long time for them to arrive. Biggs was a disaster, but Tom Wilson is other end of that spectrum. And he was only effective at age 22.
 

BruinsBtn

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Dec 24, 2006
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Milan Lucic had far worse numbers than either of those guys in his draft year.

It's tough to judge where 18 year olds will end up, especially bigger guys who haven't quite put it together yet.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
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Toronto, Ontario
Brian Burke actually traded up to get Biggs, those picks became Gibson and Rakell lol. He also traded Jiri Tlusty for Paradis. Burke was a huge proponent of big, tough and useless players.
I remember Burke said he heard Detroit was also looking to trade up for Biggs and he wanted to get ahead of them, so believe that if you want to.

As for Anaheim selecting Gibson and Rakell with the picks he gave them, I don't try and think about that because no one knew at the time who they would have selected or just how good NHL players they would become.
 

Brodeur

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Feb 27, 2002
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At least going into that draft, Biggs was thought to be something similar to Tom Wilson (as others mentioned, but he was drafted a year later in 2012) and Zack Kassian (13th overall in 2009). If anything Biggs fell a little bit in the draft as perhaps other teams didn't want to use their pick on somebody whose upside might have been a good 3rd line power winger. The perhaps old school thought was that Biggs opened up the ice for smaller teammates like Rocco Grimaldi and Reid Boucher to operate.

Brian Burke actually traded up to get Biggs, those picks became Gibson and Rakell lol.

As easy/fun as it is to pile on Burke, the rest of the table convinced him to trade up for Biggs. Burke's pet pick that year was Stuart Percy, who he proudly declared that he had personally scouted which was funny since Percy just happened to play for the OHL club closest to Toronto.

In the moment, Toronto trading up didn't feel like anything unusual. Allegedly Detroit was prepared to take Biggs at #24 but traded down after Toronto took him.

------------

As others mentioned, Paradis was an off the board selection. Sometimes we place unfair expectations out of the guy taken 27th versus the guy taken 34th.
 

NHL WAR

Registered User
Sep 29, 2018
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Burke was big on truculunce.
Biggs was big and truculunt.
So glad Leafs traded up to get him instead of just taking those Rakell and Gibson softies.
 
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MapleLeafs9

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Sep 22, 2011
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Tyler Biggs' big mistake was leaving the NCAA to go to the OHL because he was unhappy with his minutes as a freshman. He could've continued developing there from ages 18-21/22 like most college players instead of being underdeveloped and forced to go pro in the AHL at age 20 and continued to get no minutes there. Either way, he took poor advice from his agent or made a poor choice on his own. Could've likely been a bottom 6'er if he had stayed in college.
 
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LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
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As easy/fun as it is to pile on Burke, the rest of the table convinced him to trade up for Biggs. Burke's pet pick that year was Stuart Percy, who he proudly declared that he had personally scouted which was funny since Percy just happened to play for the OHL club closest to Toronto.
This is easy to say with the benefit of hindsight but the selection of Percy looks worse since other plays like Boone Jenner and Brandon Saad were selected in the 2nd round of the same draft.
 

koyvoo

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
17,244
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Burke was an idiot who undervalued skill and skating...except for when he had Morgan Rielly rated as #1 in his draft. On that momoment, and only for a moment he ignored all the biases he’s had his entire life right?

Ok. Got it.
 

lifelonghockeyfan

Registered User
Dec 18, 2015
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As easy/fun as it is to pile on Burke, the rest of the table convinced him to trade up for Biggs. Burke's pet pick that year was Stuart Percy, who he proudly declared that he had personally scouted which was funny since Percy just happened to play for the OHL club closest to Toronto.

We will never really know what went on with Burke and his executive team. He hired the numerous and expensive group of VPs. IMO they spent most of their day lunching/dining at the Air Canada Centre. Rarely do they go out and scout. Most of the time they regaled stories and how smart they were (or Burke was). Burke was too interested in media time or" pleasure" time to take on the responsibilities of being the GM and president of the club. His minions just followed his lead. I sorta envious and Burke and his buddies, never have a group of people made so money an accomplished so little.
As Brendan Shanahan told Bob Cole in passing on one of first days as Leafs President, "Things are going to be different around here now."
Maybe the the start of the difference happened when Leafs executives had to work more than two hours a day.
 
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Brodeur

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
25,864
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San Diego
Burke was big on truculunce.
Biggs was big and truculunt.
So glad Leafs traded up to get him instead of just taking those Rakell and Gibson softies.

Kudos to Anaheim for hitting on those picks. But I'm also reminded of them doing a similar trade down in 2008 and ending up with Nic Deschamps and Eric O'Dell. Acquiring those picks also caused them to miss out on Erik Karlsson who they allegedly would have taken at #17.

bHVMunXGuK20YOA1NMUTXB1ruYWzQMc3gdgrhvUn1r92h66el3r6m7lSW7lWCd515Ip0NCFl0ExQNmWeJj1AYo3vWUqxiAIP-cidaUG8fxOs3Dv92HzTA4qwlVJ16CxFS2BmjsJdKfZgHnGiXEkNSsQe-BVRyfsvqjcMYT1bEQ4JmvnGuq5hHjFT5CDfYQpa1BLqTb1mwByaRpNcP47zlZnVUNa5vA1ikV5VeAlEGKDH3Y3OHjcDZVSmNzcLYDEMyd53CQcj6xBKdJUS9hWa-Lpz-WwB9zTCzk5toc-SkHzKmBJDbqt9Ok8bxV74z4xA6ZZyGaGtPPhITFoXVu_vhazuZb9qGBG5o6-ss5pi7LXkzGFaA4C4awkSL6u8KLnutYRufUzDs24Q0WJS1svHnUMnEXFcEz3Jw_ifa2GEUUDZW2HtBBqk8gfB0hLp7Xh1qsyALrQv7rcanB4M1B_dS4AdTwMtqumFPM1ykpyDY4_ExYrvbkFp5hSQTrNo3pnvUxWHI1UJhNEtPe-dUEPK2sLcNZt1IC42xqkFlSucB82JIi20pjPP8w2XfJFcxSChFQe07pAwKNK7CjTB53Hn4GeyrrgH2lw8cvsC5T6RPIlasLhCLXvpo_NKqsUBLCiacqZQ2T21HNRDXaVP9HiKk-ctYgn8ExU=w1240-h827-no


And it was a mild upset that Gibson wasn't the first goalie taken that year. Back in those days, there was somebody who was manually putting the player name panels into the draft board. Nashville reached for overage goalie Magnus Hellberg. I think they got to around pick 50 before they had Hellberg's name put on the board.

This is easy to say with the benefit of hindsight but the selection of Percy looks worse since other plays like Boone Jenner and Brandon Saad were selected in the 2nd round of the same draft.

I think I meant funny in the sense that most GMs won't take credit for a pick and in general we as fans place too much blame/credit on a GM when they haven't had proper viewings. Most people will pin the Biggs selection solely on Burke, but it was the rest of the table who advised him to trade up for Biggs.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
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Toronto, Ontario
I think I meant funny in the sense that most GMs won't take credit for a pick and in general we as fans place too much blame/credit on a GM when they haven't had proper viewings. Most people will pin the Biggs selection solely on Burke, but it was the rest of the table who advised him to trade up for Biggs.
There is also a reason why those people are no longer working for the Leafs under Brendan Shanahan. For example he was the reason Toronto selected Nylander 8th overall in 2014 and if it was up to Dave Nonis despite him being the GM at the time, I bet they would have selected Nick Ritchie instead.
 

8816 others

Registered User
Dec 3, 2012
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Bowen Island, BC
I remember Burke said he heard Detroit was also looking to trade up for Biggs and he wanted to get ahead of them, so believe that if you want to.

As for Anaheim selecting Gibson and Rakell with the picks he gave them, I don't try and think about that because no one knew at the time who they would have selected or just how good NHL players they would become.
Not surprising behaviour from Burke given how the Kadri draft went:
 

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