OT: Philadelphia Phillies: Pitchers And Catchers Soon

[LegionOfDoom91]

Goodell & Silver make so much money in their sports it doesn’t really matter what they do.

Silver doesn’t nearly have to straddle the line when it comes to political issues here in the US when they come up given the demographics of his league. But as we saw with China he bows down to the mighty dollar.

It was easy for him to oust Donald Sterling & move the All-Star game out of North Carolina when it didn’t hurt their bottom line. It was easy PR with no lost opportunity cost.

 

[renberg]

If the NHL and NBA decided not to go up against the NFL and start their regular season on January 1, they could run their seasons and POs to end on July 4. The NFL would restart with their preseason at the end of July. No need for baseball on the annual sports calendar. MLB ownership needs to get hip to how irrelevant they could be if not already are.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Baseball’s a regional sport with a 165 games a year with like 3 hourish games that can have some really dead moments in there. It’s a huge commitment as a fan even in the most general sense not factoring in the quality of a team.

I even like baseball & played it the most of any sport on top of having a dad who’s basically part of their top demographic at this point & even my interest level is dropping over the years.

So baseball had major challenges even before all of this. Even before COVID-19 it was pretty good bet they were headed towards a lockout when their current CBA is up. This just another situation that added to the fire.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

And all of this is happening right after the Astros got caught cheating their way to a title.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

For all those outraged by the Astros scandal and perceived light punishment, I assume you will be calling for Joe Girardi's head if it turns out he was involved in whatever this Yankees sign stealing scandal is, right?

 

[Mkoll]

For all those outraged by the Astros scandal and perceived light punishment, I assume you will be calling for Joe Girardi's head if it turns out he was involved in whatever this Yankees sign stealing scandal is, right?

of course, why wouldnt anyone?

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

of course, why wouldnt anyone?

Because he is the Phillies manager and not another team's! I sincerely doubt that there will be widespread requests from Phillies fans to punish (or fire or ban) Girardi if he is implicated in something. I said from the beginning that every team is likely doing what the Astros are doing (or some form of it) but the Astros just happened to get caught. Phillies got caught back in 2010 or so I believe. Looks like the Yankees are going to get busted, and I am sure more teams will as well at some point.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

For all those outraged by the Astros scandal and perceived light punishment, I assume you will be calling for Joe Girardi's head if it turns out he was involved in whatever this Yankees sign stealing scandal is, right?

I'm not a Phillies fan and I loathe the Yankees. So yeah.

SWING and a miss.

 

[Flybynite]

Because he is the Phillies manager and not another team's! I sincerely doubt that there will be widespread requests from Phillies fans to punish (or fire or ban) Girardi if he is implicated in something. I said from the beginning that every team is likely doing what the Astros are doing (or some form of it) but the Astros just happened to get caught. Phillies got caught back in 2010 or so I believe. Looks like the Yankees are going to get busted, and I am sure more teams will as well at some point.

i think two of the caveats to all teams do it was to the degree they did it too... But also WHEN they did it.

In September 2017, after the Boston Red Sox were fined for using a smartwatch to try to steal signs, Commissioner of Baseball Rob Manfred issued a memo to all 30 clubs warning that future incidents of electronic sign stealing "will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks".[6]

So teams continuing to do it AFTER that warning carries an elevated degree of public consternation and are also what MLB uses to decide to go after.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

i think two of the caveats to all teams do it was to the degree they did it too... But also WHEN they did it.

In September 2017, after the Boston Red Sox were fined for using a smartwatch to try to steal signs, Commissioner of Baseball Rob Manfred issued a memo to all 30 clubs warning that future incidents of electronic sign stealing "will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks".[6]

So teams continuing to do it AFTER that warning carries an elevated degree of public consternation and are also what MLB uses to decide to go after.

I'm not sure why this would matter. Those that were so incensed about the Astros only cared about the impact on the game, not whether or not they knew they would be punished. If the Astros are legendary cheaters with people calling for harsher punishments (maybe even some calling for lifetime bans...I would have to look back), why would the timing matter? You are a cheater if you cheat today or if you cheated a couple years ago.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Managers are the most replaceable part of a baseball team in 2020. So I wouldn’t really care as much I cared that Hinch & Cora got fired (which was nothing). That’s not an impactful punishment to the team/organization.

I didn’t even give a shit about the Kapler firing & the Girardi hiring in the first place.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Manfred is going to have a shitty legacy & rightfully so.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Manfred is going to have a shitty legacy & rightfully so.

This guy is the jabroni of all jabronis. Has been for years now.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Has baseball ever had good optics?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

That’s a long thread.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Don't get me wrong, Manfred's terrible. But it feels instructive that part of the reason he took so long to confirm was that a significant group of owners thought he was too soft on labor. He's responsible for the execution, not the sentiment.

The grievance issue is screaming that they know they'd lose given the verbiage of the March agreement. Leaning on an off-books understanding to renegotiate certain portions of that is as bush league as it gets. If you wanted that clause in there, you had your chance.

 

[Here4ThaLids]

MLB loses this season and the next. The new summer pastime is ... hockey?

What a world.

 

[DancingPanther]

They argue about what to do with revenue and how to prorate player salaries

Meanwhile, there won't be any revenue or salaries paid at all

Genius!

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

How is this even possible? Didn't the players just say "f*** it" the other day and tell the commish to order everyone back to work pursuant to the March agreement? Is he just not going to do it?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

How is this even possible? Didn't the players just say "f*** it" the other day and tell the commish to order everyone back to work pursuant to the March agreement? Is he just not going to do it?

The players believe that it’s just another stall tactic because they could fit in a longer season right now then the owners want if Manfred forced them back now.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The players believe that it’s just another stall tactic because they could fit in a longer season right now then the owners want if Manfred forced them back now.

I honestly don't understand this and maybe I missed something. I thought the March agreement had some kind of clause that said if an agreement can't be reached the season will basically just kind of fire up without a specific agreement and the commish just sets the terms (the reason for this being that it guarantees a season in case one side or the other is being unreasonable). Isn't Manfred supposed to be some legendary negotiator or something? UGH

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I honestly don't understand this and maybe I missed something. I thought the March agreement had some kind of clause that said if an agreement can't be reached the season will basically just kind of fire up without a specific agreement and the commish just sets the terms (the reason for this being that it guarantees a season in case one side or the other is being unreasonable). Isn't Manfred supposed to be some legendary negotiator or something? UGH

He can, but the owners only want to spend a certain amount of money which equates to ~48 games of the full pro-rated salary. If they started “now” with that amount of games the players could file a grievance that more games could be fit in the schedule so as it stands the owners are delaying until that point.

In the end both sides are acting in bad faith and they can all f*** off.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

He can, but the owners only want to spend a certain amount of money which equates to ~48 games of the full pro-rated salary. If they started “now” with that amount of games the players could file a grievance that more games could be fit in the schedule so as it stands the owners are delaying until that point.

In the end both sides are acting in bad faith and they can all f*** off.

Ahh gotcha. Yeah this is really f***ing irritating. I will say, I am definitely more in line with the players. I honestly haven't followed it too closely, but it is my understanding that they just want to be paid their pro-rated salaries while the owners want to pay them less than that? If that is the only sticking point (or the main one) I think blame can be placed solely on the owners. But again I have really only read headlines and heard them talk about it on the radio.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Ahh gotcha. Yeah this is really f***ing irritating. I will say, I am definitely more in line with the players. I honestly haven't followed it too closely, but it is my understanding that they just want to be paid their pro-rated salaries while the owners want to pay them less than that? If that is the only sticking point (or the main one) I think blame can be placed solely on the owners. But again I have really only read headlines and heard them talk about it on the radio.

There was an agreement in March between MLB and the MLBPA that included a clause stipulating pro-rata salary. MLB contends there was an understanding that this would be re-negotiated if fans were not allowed into ballparks. Whether or not you believe this to be the case, it was not included in the agreement. In fact, despite all the posturing from people like Buster Olney, here's a quote from a May 22nd letter from MLB's counsel to the MLBPA:

We agree with the Association that, under the Agreement, players are not required to accept less than their full prorated salary.

TLDR; Jerry Reinsdorf and whoever else is following him is probably most to blame here.