Hiesenberg
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2013
- 15,576
- 1,875
Falcons are done and Packers are 1 loss or two losses away from being done as well.
That game could be a dud.
That game could be a dud.
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JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
Well i'm going out on a limb here but i'm tired of this bully ****. I can't take it anymore.
Incognito isn't a good human being at all but for the most part his actions aren't bullying. They're being a man in a locker room setting. Jonathan Martin IMO is a sack of ****. How convenient that he brings these allegations to light three days after he lost his starting position and that his mother is a prominent lawyer, who deals with workplace harassment? It just smells like a bunch of ******** to me and ESPN just eats it up.
I like to use this example regarding the situation, my friends and myself always mess with each other calling each other names and what not through text messages. If we had a falling out of some sort my friends or myself could take the text messages from the past and claim that they were bullied when in reality that wasn't the case at all.
I haven't watched ESPN at all today but they better be focusing on this stuff that is happening in Tallahassee. That is a much "bigger" story. A man (who was not yet attending FSU) allegedly sexually assaulted a women. The report was filed that night and evidence was taken. The detective urged the woman not to press charges because Tallahassee is a "big football town" and her client's life could "be made miserable" if she pursued a sexual assault case. Also, "The detective refused to collect Winston's DNA or interview his roommate, a possible witness in the case, because doing so would alert Winston and allow the case to go public." Not to mention if charges are filed then Winston is automatically suspended by school rules. The police told Winston's lawyer that the case was closed without the police interviewing or taking DNA from Winston. The case wasn't brought back up until TMZ brought it up last week (or whenever) and now after being pushed the police are starting to do their job.
Now at the same time we've seen plenty of these types of allegations over the years and a lot of the time they turn into nothing but the girl crying wolf. But Winston's DNA was found on the girls underwear so something did occur. This culture surrounding these big schools, much like PSU, where the game of football is more important than the lives of people is sickening to me.
EDIT: I didn't read the McNabb article posted.
Incognito isn't a good human being at all but for the most part his actions aren't bullying. They're being a man in a locker room setting. Jonathan Martin IMO is a sack of ****. How convenient that he brings these allegations to light three days after he lost his starting position and that his mother is a prominent lawyer, who deals with workplace harassment? It just smells like a bunch of ******** to me and ESPN just eats it up.
I like to use this example regarding the situation, my friends and myself always mess with each other calling each other names and what not through text messages. If we had a falling out of some sort my friends or myself could take the text messages from the past and claim that they were bullied when in reality that wasn't the case at all.
I haven't watched ESPN at all today but they better be focusing on this stuff that is happening in Tallahassee. That is a much "bigger" story. A man (who was not yet attending FSU) allegedly sexually assaulted a women. The report was filed that night and evidence was taken. The detective urged the woman not to press charges because Tallahassee is a "big football town" and her client's life could "be made miserable" if she pursued a sexual assault case. Also, "The detective refused to collect Winston's DNA or interview his roommate, a possible witness in the case, because doing so would alert Winston and allow the case to go public." Not to mention if charges are filed then Winston is automatically suspended by school rules. The police told Winston's lawyer that the case was closed without the police interviewing or taking DNA from Winston. The case wasn't brought back up until TMZ brought it up last week (or whenever) and now after being pushed the police are starting to do their job.
Now at the same time we've seen plenty of these types of allegations over the years and a lot of the time they turn into nothing but the girl crying wolf. But Winston's DNA was found on the girls underwear so something did occur. This culture surrounding these big schools, much like PSU, where the game of football is more important than the lives of people is sickening to me.
EDIT: I didn't read the McNabb article posted.
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
Basically, Shawn Andrews accused McNabb of bullying him. I agree with you to an extent about the bullying. There is no place for homophobic or racial slurs to be used, obviously, but at what point do you stand up for yourself as a grown man and take care of business? Bullying is a problem with children, I am confused how it extends into adulthood. harassment is one thing, but bullying?
Appleyard
Registered User
As someone who is a left wing, liberal, right on kind of PC euro guy but has played for 15 years on numerous teams in different sports... surely this kind of stuff happens on every single team?! (not the 15k or racism (N word is freaking out of bounds) in Martins case... they were beyond any line... though I have heard comments that could be construed as racism to outsiders on some teams... we had a Nigerian guy whos nickname is 'Brown Bear', and I have 'big, black *******' between two black guys I played with on numerous occasions, which extended to other team members)
Being called gay is literally commonplace in every team I have ever been a part of... (I have very rarely used it, and only when I was younger... but 'girl' and 'manup' I have definitely used recently) but all the time as a jest, usually at guys who preen themselves extensively or are 'soft' when they play, or are the hypochondriac injury types. Insults are bandied about so freely in locker rooms... and most take it how it is meant...
Bullying in my mind is when you are unwillingly insulted or hurt... if you are part of it or give it back, or don't lay lines down at the time and say '**** you all, this aint ok' in my mind it is not really bullying.
I have only seen one guy out of the hundreds I have played with react in a negative way and have pretty much a full on breakdown... and that was off one stupid, insensitive comment that had background with him that no-one else knew about, and if it would have been said to any other member of the team would have been met with an insult back or a wet towel thrown at them, and then a laugh around the room.
I do think though the leaders on these teams need to understand better who are the kind of guys who will join in and be ok with this stuff though... that is usually the crux to a good room.
We had a few guys on a few teams who would get far less stick than others as they could not take it, and you knew that from the outset, as they would usually just stand up and say, 'look guys, **** off... I am not having it.' Or just not join in with it.
If you don't say that... well, everyone else on the team thinks that it is ok, as it is directed at everyone usually...
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I'll try to make this as nebulous as possible.
I used to compete with a group of other "professionals." 8 years. The profanity-laden culture and bullying is normal, even when you're doing well.
That doesn't make it okay/right/acceptable in modern culture, but most people develop an armor against it. Those who don't stress, lose the passion, and burn out.
The things I've been called-- it makes me laugh when someone starts a sentence with: "I hope this doesn't offend you, but..."
Anyone who has been in those cultures is extremely difficult to offend.
I've been involved it as well. We held a tryout wherein the guy was going to make the team 8 minutes in. We made him tryout for about four hours-- and 1on1 the entire team one at a time. You heard it if he scored on you. It was fun. Not for him, I'm sure.
I used to compete with a group of other "professionals." 8 years. The profanity-laden culture and bullying is normal, even when you're doing well.
That doesn't make it okay/right/acceptable in modern culture, but most people develop an armor against it. Those who don't stress, lose the passion, and burn out.
The things I've been called-- it makes me laugh when someone starts a sentence with: "I hope this doesn't offend you, but..."
Anyone who has been in those cultures is extremely difficult to offend.
I've been involved it as well. We held a tryout wherein the guy was going to make the team 8 minutes in. We made him tryout for about four hours-- and 1on1 the entire team one at a time. You heard it if he scored on you. It was fun. Not for him, I'm sure.
Schwarbomb
Howie Be Thy Name
Anything that comes out of Andrews's mouth is BS. The guy had no heart to play football.
Appleyard
Registered User
Pretty good summary of it really.
We always used to finish tryouts (and most practices tbh) with 'jungle rules'... for 30mins to an hour... so basically anything allowed, every man for himself, but usually everyone vs the guy with the ball (in rugby and water polo, so probably around 12-18 guys vs 1 depending on the sport!) I and a lot of people loved it.
But some guys would always just try and get out of it... I think it 100% depends on the person, I always thrived being the one getting attacked from all angles, if you scored (or got a try) it was an insanely good feeling. Though I once got an accidental eye gouge, and fingers broken several times... which was scary and not pleasant (eye gouge)... but that can happen in a game as well.
And yeh, the try out guy would always get the ball thrown to him most often.
The best and most successful team I have ever been on was the most insular and 'nastiest'... but tbf it was also the one with the most heart (not sure how correlated those things are, if at all) no-one would ever give up, and pretty much everyone loved grinding out wins and playing tough, it was the most fun I have ever had on a team... but also the worst team I have ever been on was the same. (with less heart, less grind and more of a blame culture... all posturing really, when the going got tough people just were vindictive and cheap.)
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
What does the bolded have to do with the previous sentence? Maybe bullying is the reason he lost interest in football? Happens quite often throughout grade school. Pretty insensitive to discount one guy's opinion because he did something that you didn't like.
Obviously I don't know what happened. I don't like Donovan at all and everything Shawn said about him wouldn't surprise me IN THE SLIGHTEST. Then again, Shawn has had some mental issues and I took with what he said with a grain of salt. I give them both the benefit of the doubt. It'll be a couple days worth of "he-said, she-said" and it'll die off. But as someone who was bullied often throughout my younger years, I sympathize with what Shawn may have gone though. Some people just aren't biologically build to "get over it" or "man up", even when they reach adulthood.
Hell, there are still people I went to high school with that I'm sure would push some buttons because I was the gentle giant. To this day it'd take quite a bit to get me throwing bombs, but I wouldn't expect to be stuck in a straight up bullying environment like you might be more familiar with in middle school gym class.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
Andrews called into 97.5 last week to say this story & after it another former Eagles player who played with him called in & said that it was complete bs.
As much as I don't like McNabb & think he's an *** but I find it hard to believe Andrews here, sounds like a copy cat off the incognito story trying to get a little back into the limelight.
As much as I don't like McNabb & think he's an *** but I find it hard to believe Andrews here, sounds like a copy cat off the incognito story trying to get a little back into the limelight.
Appleyard
Registered User
Tbf I believe they probably gave him a bit of a hard time, heck, he would have got stick on any team I have ever been on for that mohawk alone...
'Is that a skunk on your head dude?'
'I didn't know you played soccer now Shawn.'
'Hey, Shawn, the 80's called, it wants its hairstyle back.'
'Did your mum actually let you leave the house like that?'
'This is the NFL, not a German rave Shawn.'
'Great rockhopper penguin outfit Shawn.'
'Bet I can guess the price you paid for that cut Shawn... your dignity mate.'
'Didn't know the blind society offered haircuts these days.'
And they would be the really nice PC ones... funny if you are a certain kind of person and go with it... not so funny if not, especially if you have mental health issues before/during the time in the lockerroom. (It is up to leaders on the team to gauge that kind of stuff really, reign it in if guy aint reacting well to it, as it is bordering on harassment if they are not taking it as a joke or camaraderie ... and that can be hard to gauge, especially if the guy goes along with it, gets involves and fires back or says nothing at the time when 'banter' is commonplace across the board.)
There is always a danger that guys are fine with some of the tamer stuff, and join in, and then due to over familiarity (like you are in each others pockets 24/7) people take it too far and think everyone is on the same wavelength when they are in fact gritting their teeth when things are said. And most jocks have their heads so far up their own arses, or laughing at their own jokes, trying to be big man on campus, that they will not realise that someone is not as ok with it as they and others are.
(Heck... I had my hair dyed a stronger blonde for a while and got so much stick for it among teammates... got called 's*it lid' for a year even after I got rid of it!)
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LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
I'm not doubting if he got his balls busted because he probably did. I went to an all boys high school & played sports there so that was pretty frequent there but me personally I never took it the wrong way because everybody got their share of getting their balls busted.
I think he's just making a mountain out of an ant hill here.
Schwarbomb
Howie Be Thy Name
I find it convenient that Shawn comes out with the McNabb stuff now after seeing how much attention the Dolphins situation is getting. It supposedly happened to Shawn 3+ years ago. The bolded is my opinion of Shawn. In a span of five years he signed a long term deal with the eagles, disappeared from training camp, missed tons of time due to "back issues", got drafted by the UFL and didn't want to play there, signed long term with the giants, and then retired one year later blaming injuries. Not a lot of reasons to trust him.
Maybe, maybe not. If he was getting bullied by McNabb and didn't do anything about it for SIX years then Shawn only has himself to blame. I'm sure if a QB knew teasing his ProBowl offensive lineman was negatively influencing him, he would have stopped.
Appleyard
Registered User
Yeh, I agree.
I do imagine there are times where it gets out of hand verbally, but not that often. (like touchy topics for an individual, usually the way it does)...
and I am actually surprised there are not more locker room fights/incidents/messing around ending in injury in some way! (just due to the size of the guys... a fight broke out between two of the Serbian water polo team a few years back, apparently nothing too crazy, just a scuffle, and one guy got his arm broken and the other had his leg broken! And while those guys were big (6'3 and ~230 and 6'6 and ~260) NFL players are bigger, just a guy jumping on you in a mess about pile on/wrestle could injure!)
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
Apparently TO & Hugh Douglas threw down in the locker room during the whole TO/McNabb saga.
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
- Jan 17, 2004
- 71,278
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Hollywood has started a new GDT which can be found here:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1545901
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1545901
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