OT: Philadelphia Eagles: It’ll Take More Than A Few Bounces To Knock Our Crown Off Part Eight

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OrangeAndBlackMetal

Dark Wizard of the Black Cascade
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lol i mean literally, alcohol is better for you than pepsi, if anything quit the pepsi.
 

Rich Nixon

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They're still nowhere close to last season's peak. They were blowing the doors off of teams. The biggest change from the middle of the season to now is the defense. That's not Nick Foles.

This, to me, has more to do with the running game than anything. Last season they were a top 5 team in yards per attempt and yards per game on the ground. This year they were a bottom 5 team in both categories.

They're rushing roughly as much as they were, and their time of possession is still great (best in the league last year, second this year), but they're just getting less and less on the ground with every attempt. There's no one there who can seriously break off a 15+ yard run. Any real downfield progress has to come through the air for them...last year they had Ajayi, Blount, and Clement at this time, the group now is woeful in comparison.

So teams are more brazen with their blitzes and/or are willing to concede the box in the running game now. It makes the short passing/slants/RPO work a lot harder, since no one is really biting that hard on the play action. That goes a long way in shaping what the offense can do. They're being forced to throw it further downfield if they want to get anywhere, which is obviously a coin toss.
 
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Rich Nixon

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lol i mean literally, alcohol is better for you than pepsi, if anything quit the pepsi.

Nah, I need to drink something sugary with bubbles in it during the sporting games. Usually that would be beer, but now it's a soda or two. It's more about the brain and the wallet than anything else (though the liver deserves a shoutout). We're taking baby steps here.
 
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Jtown

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I'm in a bit of a weird spot with Wentz. I thought he needed a ton of work coming out and was massively overrated as a rookie and to start last season, which also meant I feel like he didn't get enough respect for what he turned into from the Arizona game forward. That was a quantum leap.

At least in the circles I travel, the argument was more along the lines of that stretch earning him the right to play through his struggles this year than arguing he was the same guy. I'm still pretty on board with that, but there was definitely a regression. I do wish they reined the offense in a little more for him to ease him back, but there was so much turnover that the staff needed some time to find itself too.



They're still nowhere close to last season's peak. They were blowing the doors off of teams. The biggest change from the middle of the season to now is the defense. That's not Nick Foles.

wentz mistakes are not on this staff, but rather than his own reluctancy to develop the part of his game that always needed work and that was , footwork, accuracy, and decision making.

Doyou really think its a coincidence this defense started playing better once foles became qb. Here is a prediction for you, the Saints won't score int he forties again this game and it has nothing to do with the defense.
 

OrangeAndBlackMetal

Dark Wizard of the Black Cascade
Aug 14, 2009
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Reykjavík
Nah, I need to drink something sugary with bubbles in it during the sporting games. Usually that would be beer, but now it's a soda or two. It's more about the brain and the wallet than anything else (though the liver deserves a shoutout). We're taking baby steps here.
maybe switch to red wine? a couple glasses of red wine a day is actually really good for your heart, immune system, digestive tract and metabolism and typically a cheaper habit than beer, provided you're not a wine enthusiast; dropping bank on good wine.
 
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Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
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maybe switch to red wine? a couple glasses of red wine a day is actually really good for your heart, immune system, digestive tract and metabolism and typically a cheaper habit than beer, provided you're not a wine enthusiast; dropping bank on good wine.

I don't think you're picking up what I'm putting down here my guy (also, as a former medical journalist: Things like "wine in moderation could be good for your heart!" and "dark chocolate can help prevent cancer!" are absolute cherrypicked bullshit that, in context, are essentially untrue. They're usually the very oversimplified topline of a study with a million asterisks that is then fed to the non-science media as a way of gaining attention/clout for the researchers or their institution. antioxidents in wine are mostly offset by the alcohol and sugars, and no amount of alcohol is safe for those with compromised heart health, etc).
 
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OrangeAndBlackMetal

Dark Wizard of the Black Cascade
Aug 14, 2009
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Reykjavík
I don't think you're picking up what I'm putting down here my guy (also, as a former medical journalist: Things like "wine in moderation could be good for your heart!" and "dark chocolate can help prevent cancer!" are absolute cherrypicked bull**** that, in context, are essentially untrue).

Can you cite peer reviewed research for that, per chance? i'd be interested
 

Rich Nixon

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Can you cite peer reviewed research for that, per chance? i'd be interested

I'm talking pretty much across the board, if you see it as a scientific finding that's reported on the Today Show, or your local news, or mentioned on a cooking program, ignore it. It's likely to be a minute, heavily-qualified, mostly-circumstantial finding that the university's PR program scraped into the press release as a way of bringing attention to an otherwise marginal or boring piece of research. Alcohol is bad for your heart, period: It raises your blood pressure, weakens your muscles (heart included), and increases risk of heart attack and stroke.

Certain alcohols consumed in low amounts (like, lower than most people realistically consume) over long periods of time can eventually contribute to certain positives, but those are easily reproduced by other nutrients without the offsetting negatives that alcohol has on the rest of your body. Notions like "Hey the Italians and French have lower incidence of heart failure and they drink lots of wine!" has more to do with historical access to fresh foods, a diet higher in good oils, vegetables, and fish than red meat, and a less-sedentary lifestyle. But Hoda and Kathie Lee aren't going to spend their 3 minutes on a Wednesday morning railing against Perdue, Longhorn Steakhouse, and American driving habits, now are they?

Science has a real problem with these catchy headlines that infiltrate popular media, since most media outlets outside of the industry are just going to parrot a university's press release or reinforce a common myth rather than vetting the actual science or interviewing a cardiologist. That's hard work, your interns don't have time for that shit.
 
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JojoTheWhale

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May 22, 2008
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This, to me, has more to do with the running game than anything. Last season they were a top 5 team in yards per attempt and yards per game on the ground. This year they were a bottom 5 team in both categories.

They're rushing roughly as much as they were, and their time of possession is still great (best in the league last year, second this year), but they're just getting less and less on the ground with every attempt. There's no one there who can seriously break off a 15+ yard run. Any real downfield progress has to come through the air for them...last year they had Ajayi, Blount, and Clement at this time, the group now is woeful in comparison.

So teams are more brazen with their blitzes and/or are willing to concede the box in the running game now. It makes the short passing/slants/RPO work a lot harder, since no one is really biting that hard on the play action. That goes a long way in shaping what the offense can do. They're being forced to throw it further downfield if they want to get anywhere, which is obviously a coin toss.

The RB talent has fallen off a cliff, no doubt. So has line play, albeit to a lesser degree. As far as teams conceding the box, that's one of the reasons why the switch to 12 base was so key. You can't do that anymore.

The bolded is factually incorrect. Under Foles, their average depth of target is way down. RB passing targets and YAC is Foles in a nutshell. What they try to do with him is allow him to key off of one underneath read and let it rip -- think Curl/Drag where he reads the MIKE. Absolutely lethal in 12 with this TE group.

wentz mistakes are not on this staff, but rather than his own reluctancy to develop the part of his game that always needed work and that was , footwork, accuracy, and decision making.

He did make those jumps last year. If you want to call it unsustainable for whatever reason, that's completely arguable. But he did it. I have years of posts ripping Wentz's footwork up and down from months before the draft, but he did it. He just needs to get back there, which is a completely different argument from, "I don't know if he has it in him."


Doyou really think its a coincidence this defense started playing better once foles became qb. Here is a prediction for you, the Saints won't score int he forties again this game and it has nothing to do with the defense.
A team won't get to 40. Bold.

And yes, I do. I don't know what to tell you if you want to attribute the defense's gains to Foles. You're not even making an argument. You're just saying they're linked because pixie dust.
 

JXC

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Foles has taken hits this year though. Bruised ribs at the end of the Redskins game ring a bell? He even took quite a few hits in this game too.

I would guess an entire season worth of those hits would wear on Nick as much as the have on Carson.

The whole Foles vs. Wentz debate is tough because we don't know what Carson would do in these playoff games, and we don't know how Foles would look playing more games throughout the year, with opportunity for more wear, as well as more tape for defenses to prepare against him.

In my opinion, Wentz is still the future of this team (he's only 26!) and it's been great that Foles has come in back to back years and done the job needing to be done. We are lucky as Eagles fans for this, but to write Wentz off is premature.
I think it’s true that no one could survive the beating Wentz took this year. They just protected him poorly, no question.

Foles has not taken the same beating.

Could be any number of reasons why.

Wentz is indeed the future but it is far from clear who is the better quarterback. In my opinion.
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
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The RB talent has fallen off a cliff, no doubt. So has line play, albeit to a lesser degree. As far as teams conceding the box, that's one of the reasons why the switch to 12 base was so key. You can't do that anymore.

The bolded is factually incorrect. Under Foles, their average depth of target is way down. RB passing targets and YAC is Foles in a nutshell. What they try to do with him is allow him to key off of one underneath read and let it rip -- think Curl/Drag where he reads the MIKE. Absolutely lethal in 12 with this TE group.

That is Foles in a nutshell, agreed, and it's obviously why his completion percentage has been so astronomical. I'm probably off on that and I'd love to dive into the comparison stats later, so I was perceiving that the YAC was probably down just off watching the games-I'm finding that the action down there is much tighter than it was last year, so while the throws are being completed they aren't going as far/are much more contested. As said, could be quite off on that. And yes, pretty much the only thing keeping the offense humming is having a group of TEs with great hands and some escapability.
 

JXC

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The playcalling is also much more conservative with Foles.

They simplified their defense midseason too, this year.

I think Foles reads better at the line and in the pocket. I think his receivers run better routes for him. I think he gets rid of it faster. And I think maybe he makes better adjustments at the line.

But that may all be false, it’s just what I think I see.
 

JXC

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I think its because there's less improvisation on the QB's part and the WRs can stick to the pre-planned routes.
Hmmm, interesting, never thought of that
 

JXC

#ThisAintXbox #ThisAintMightyDucks #FireHakstol
Dec 28, 2005
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This, to me, has more to do with the running game than anything. Last season they were a top 5 team in yards per attempt and yards per game on the ground. This year they were a bottom 5 team in both categories.

They're rushing roughly as much as they were, and their time of possession is still great (best in the league last year, second this year), but they're just getting less and less on the ground with every attempt. There's no one there who can seriously break off a 15+ yard run. Any real downfield progress has to come through the air for them...last year they had Ajayi, Blount, and Clement at this time, the group now is woeful in comparison.

So teams are more brazen with their blitzes and/or are willing to concede the box in the running game now. It makes the short passing/slants/RPO work a lot harder, since no one is really biting that hard on the play action. That goes a long way in shaping what the offense can do. They're being forced to throw it further downfield if they want to get anywhere, which is obviously a coin toss.
Wow, great post.
 

Jtown

Registered User
Oct 6, 2010
39,610
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Fairfax, Virginia
The RB talent has fallen off a cliff, no doubt. So has line play, albeit to a lesser degree. As far as teams conceding the box, that's one of the reasons why the switch to 12 base was so key. You can't do that anymore.

The bolded is factually incorrect. Under Foles, their average depth of target is way down. RB passing targets and YAC is Foles in a nutshell. What they try to do with him is allow him to key off of one underneath read and let it rip -- think Curl/Drag where he reads the MIKE. Absolutely lethal in 12 with this TE group.



He did make those jumps last year. If you want to call it unsustainable for whatever reason, that's completely arguable. But he did it. I have years of posts ripping Wentz's footwork up and down from months before the draft, but he did it. He just needs to get back there, which is a completely different argument from, "I don't know if he has it in him."



A team won't get to 40. Bold.

And yes, I do. I don't know what to tell you if you want to attribute the defense's gains to Foles. You're not even making an argument. You're just saying they're linked because pixie dust.


you keep talking about " last year" Last year was an acl tear away. There was nothing about Wentz this year that looked like last year.

And in regards to the defense playing better and carsons Stats. This team has sucked in the first half of games this year, and have relied heavily on teams playing prevent defense in order for us to score and carson to rack up stats. The defense in the dallas game gave up 500 plus yards because Carson could not string together multiple first down drives. It was either punt or turnover in the first 3 quarters of that game. Foles has shown time and time again that he can string together long drives that may not result in points, but result in a change in field position and gets the defense off the field.

This whole year we have shot ourselves in the foot time and time again with Wentz in the first half. We sucked , and always got behind. The only team we beat that was worth a damn was the colts and that was when they were struggling early in the season. Since Foles has come on we have beaten the 2 of the 3 best nfc teams and the 3rd best afc team. Its really not hard to understand what is occurring here.
 
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JojoTheWhale

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That is Foles in a nutshell, agreed, and it's obviously why his completion percentage has been so astronomical. I'm probably off on that and I'd love to dive into the comparison stats later, so I was perceiving that the YAC was probably down just off watching the games-I'm finding that the action down there is much tighter than it was last year, so while the throws are being completed they aren't going as far/are much more contested. As said, could be quite off on that. And yes, pretty much the only thing keeping the offense humming is having a group of TEs with great hands and some escapability.

One of the reasons it felt to me like there's been more downfield than there actually has been is Foles targeting Jeffery more than usual in this run and deeper on average as the weeks pass. It should have happened earlier, especially after the Tate deal. Between Tate and Agholor, there's no reason for Jeffery to be running Smokes outside of situational corner cases.

Jojo, have you stats for this? I cannot find any good QB stats.

I do. Running off to an 11:00 meeting. If I forget, PM me later.

If you're looking for something now, Ben Solak had a great piece up on BGN before this game that included numbers like that.
 
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