OT: Philadelphia 76ers (NBA): Interrupting the Process.

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Snowballs at Santa
Mar 13, 2013
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This is abject nonsense. Far too early to know.
Both players are talented, but have different skill sets and backgrounds.

Porzingis shoots better, because that's stressed in the European game, and has been more physical than advertised, and he's tall. But he's not especially nifty.

Okafor is a better athlete but less polished, he never shot or played defense in his one year in college, he's climbing a learning curve, but in three months has extended his range out to 15 feet. For a guy who can't jump, he's averaging 1.1 blocks per game, and has a true shooting % of 51.8.

Thing to remember is Porzingis has better, and more importantly, far more experienced talent surrounding him, his numbers with Anthony off the floor are dismal, because defenses crash on him.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-kn...s-shows-how-important-carmelo-is-to-porzingis

Abject nonsense??? What the hell did I say that's nonsense exactly? Nothing I said wasn't true.

Porzingis is a much better 2-way player than Okafor right now and looks like a better building block right now, and still would have fit better with Noel. There are still questions with Okafor's game, his defense in almost all aspects and his rebounding especially. Those things need to improve if he continues to play the 5. As the last line of defense, you have to protect the rim and rebound at a much higher percentage than he is. To ignore those aspects would be ignorant.

Can he improve? Sure, never said he couldn't.
 

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Snowballs at Santa
Mar 13, 2013
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Just looked that up, seems like a Bill Simmons suggestion. That trade doesn't make any sense for Cleveland lol. Without putting much effort into it, a trade with Houston would make some sense. Capela + Jones for Love. The Cavs need players that can add value without needing the ball in their hands to put around their alpha dog ball handlers in James & Irving. Capela gives them a very good defensive player and a great finisher in the pick n roll with Lebron. Jones has had a bit of a down year but could be a good 3 and D power forward for them. Irving/Smith/LeBron/Jones/Capela gives them a better chance against the Warriors in the finals IMO. The Rockets could properly use Love and have Howard to protect against his poor D. Beverly/Harden/Ariza/Love/Howard looks good.

That's not a bad trade scenario. The things with the Cavs is, IMO, they need to improve the PnR defense if they want ANY shot to beat the warriors. The Kyrie - Love duo are the statistically worse duo at defending the PnR in the entire league.

The Warriors already have and will contindue to destroy them on the high PnR's, especially with Love defending the 4, which is usually Draymond Green, who is an excellent passer to finding the open man (usually Iggy or Barnes in the corner for 3) or just rolling for an easy 2.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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Abject nonsense??? What the hell did I say that's nonsense exactly? Nothing I said wasn't true.

Porzingis is a much better 2-way player than Okafor right now and looks like a better building block right now, and still would have fit better with Noel. There are still questions with Okafor's game, his defense in almost all aspects and his rebounding especially. Those things need to improve if he continues to play the 5. As the last line of defense, you have to protect the rim and rebound at a much higher percentage than he is. To ignore those aspects would be ignorant.

Can he improve? Sure, never said he couldn't.

Porzingis looks good because he's asked to do so much less - look at how his play falls off without Anthony, because suddenly he becomes the focus of opposing defenses.

Just look at the Knick lineup:
Aaron Affalo SG/SF 30 years old, 14 ppg, 36.5% 3-point
Carmelo Anthony, SF 31, 21 ppg, 33% 3-point
Jose Calderon, PG/SG 34, 7.5 ppg, 41% 3-point
Robin Lopez, C, 27, 9 ppg, 6 RB, 1.4 Blk
Lance Thomas F, 27, 9 ppg, 42% 3-point

The only inexperienced players getting PT on the Knicks:
Langston Galloway G, 2nd year
Derrick Williams, F, 5th year
Jerrian Grant, G, rookie

So there's no pressure on Prozingis to make things happen, he can let the game come to him.

Porzingis 28 minutes, 14.0 ppg, 7.8 Rb, 2.0 Blk, 1.7 TO, .524 TS, 18.5 PER
Okafor 31 minutes, 17.4 ppg, 7.4 Rb, 1.1 Blk, 2.0 TO, .518 TS, 16.9 PER

Other than 3 point shooting, not a whole lot of difference, except Okafor has to deal with guards who can't defend, teammates who can't help out, and defenses that key on him.
 

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Snowballs at Santa
Mar 13, 2013
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I said Okafor's question marks were his defense and rebounding.

You giving me these stats doesn't disprove anything I said. Okafor is a better offensive player than Porzingis, sure, I never said he wasn't but Porzingis's skill set would fit better with Noel.

All said in my original post was Okafor had several question marks about him, his defense and rebounding... which are pretty dire to the center position. Nothing nonsensical about that.

That's a pretty strong argument.

Thanks for the memo man!!! I don't see how my post was "projecting" anyone's career 30-40 games in. While Okafor is brilliant on offense, there are questions about his defensive ability, which could be easily argued is more important for a Center. I never said he couldn't improve.
 

Hiesenberg

Registered User
Jul 2, 2013
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I said Okafor's question marks were his defense and rebounding.

You giving me these stats doesn't disprove anything I said. Okafor is a better offensive player than Porzingis, sure, I never said he wasn't but Porzingis's skill set would fit better with Noel.

All said in my original post was Okafor had several question marks about him, his defense and rebounding... which are pretty dire to the center position. Nothing nonsensical about that.



Thanks for the memo man!!! I don't see how my post was "projecting" anyone's career 30-40 games in. While Okafor is brilliant on offense, there are questions about his defensive ability, which could be easily argued is more important for a Center. I never said he couldn't improve.

Don't take it the wrong way. I think Porzingis has been good, but certain people, not you, seem to think its already a slam dunk that Porzingis will have the significantly better career. Those people are probably stupid to come to that conclusion already. But Okafor's situation is different, for anybody wanting to compare them as Apples to Apples, would be best to stop.
 

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Snowballs at Santa
Mar 13, 2013
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I agree, I want Okafor to be better than Porzingis, and not one to write off Okafor.

The concerning part is Brett Brown seems like he does not want to play Okafor at the 4 because he doesn't think he can keep up. So with Okafor essentially cemented to the 5, it's important for the Sixers that Okafor becomes a better defender and rebounder.

This is assuming Embiid doesn't become the player we all hope, because if he does, it ultimately doesn't matter.

I agree their situations are different, I think people who wish we had Porzingis see how nice it would be to put him at the 4 and Noel playing his true position at the 5, where he thrives. That would be amazing defensively. With a Okafor and Noel frontcourt it is still a work in progress, and while they have improved with Ish Smith, there are still question-marks whether they can thrive paired up down the road.
 

Hiesenberg

Registered User
Jul 2, 2013
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I know they liked Porzingis, but it seemed like that was the type of risk people would've bashed them for again. Not that I think they care, but if they draft that kid and he doesn't come over or he struggles, could you imagine the "takes" by NOT drafting Okafor? This one kind of played about against them for now.
 

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Snowballs at Santa
Mar 13, 2013
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I would have drafted Okafor as well, so I have no qualms with the pick. I can see why people want Porzingis though, but the risk was very high, yes.
 

Embiid

*Injured
May 27, 2010
32,577
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I would have drafted Okafor as well, so I have no qualms with the pick. I can see why people want Porzingis though, but the risk was very high, yes.

Porzingis with Noel would have been menacing.....just like Noel with Embiid if the latter pans out. To me Okafor seems to be the trade chip but it will still be risky so if they do decide to trade him they better net a key component for a championship run.....
 

TheSpectrum

Registered User
Oct 18, 2011
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I wouldn't want to do that.

Would you guys give up Okafor for say the 4th pick in the draft?

Personally, I really like Sean Dunn from Providence. He has a Dwayne Wade/Derrick Rose hybrid feeling for me. Saw him live when they played Nova. He will be special
I watched Kris Dunn against Xavier last night. The kid needs to improve his shot tremendously. Right now he is a more polished version of MCW. His length bothers the hell out of people, he is a menace on defense and is a good facilitator but his shot is a mess.

I don't think the Sixers can find a player of Okafor's caliber beyond 3. For them to dump Okafor to get a kid like Dunn doesn't make much sense IMO. They can use the Heat or perhaps the OKC pick to get a kid like Monte Morris from Iowa St that would be a good fit to run this offense.
 

TheSpectrum

Registered User
Oct 18, 2011
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So how badly are the Sixers screwed if they don't end up with Simmons and flip the switch -- they are winning some games now.

Brandon Ingram is the real deal too

They need to come out of this draft with either Simmons or Ingram. Some say the Croatian kid Bender may be the real deal too but he would not get here until some point in 2018 I think. I don't think the fan base would accept that at this point.

I think we would see a 30 win team next season with this lineup

Embiid/Okafor
Noel/Grant
Ingram/Saric
FA SG / Covington
Smith/Rookie PG
 

Embiid

*Injured
May 27, 2010
32,577
20,873
Philadelphia
You back to watchin' games? Most of their games are watchable now, I promise. :laugh:

I was at the Celtics game ..that one was brutal but yeah I have enjoyed most of the games of late. Not sure what we will see against GS....but pretty scared right now thinking about it.
 

Schwarbomb

Howie Be Thy Name
Jul 2, 2011
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You back to watchin' games? Most of their games are watchable now, I promise. :laugh:
I don't think I watched one since they got Ish. Tonight was Flyers night anyway. After the game I do watch all the videos of the stats and stuff though on NBA.com though. It's good for the viewers they're more watchable now, but that Alaa guy really kills me.
 

Sniped

Snowballs at Santa
Mar 13, 2013
4,891
9
Philly
I was at the Celtics game ..that one was brutal but yeah I have enjoyed most of the games of late. Not sure what we will see against GS....but pretty scared right now thinking about it.

Yeah, that Celtics game was a stinker, they are a pretty good team, that plays within their offense. Sixers have struggled with them.

Hey man, it's pretty much a guaranteed loss, so I'll take it.
 

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Snowballs at Santa
Mar 13, 2013
4,891
9
Philly
I don't think I watched one since they got Ish. Tonight was Flyers night anyway. After the game I do watch all the videos of the stats and stuff though on NBA.com though. It's good for the viewers they're more watchable now, but that Alaa guy really kills me.

He's definitely no Malik, but he's been better. They've had Jim Lynam and Dei Lynam take his place when he's not there, and it's more cringe-worthy.
 

Schwarbomb

Howie Be Thy Name
Jul 2, 2011
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He's definitely no Malik, but he's been better. They've had Jim Lynam and Dei Lynam take his place when he's not there, and it's more cringe-worthy.
I actually learned about basketball listening to Malik. All I learn from Alaa is where every player went to college.
 

Sniped

Snowballs at Santa
Mar 13, 2013
4,891
9
Philly
Malik definitely set the bar high, to be fair. I do miss him, really enjoyed him and Zu together.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
52,624
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I'll never forget that time that Malik called Mickael Pietrus out for flopping when he actually broke his neck and had to get carried off on a stretcher.
 
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