OT: Philadelphia 76ers and the NBA (basketball)

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FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
52,627
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The only thing about the trade I don't like is I don't know whether I want LA to bottom out or hang around 7-10.
 

Lotusflower

Tha Snake, Tha Rat, Tha Cat, Tha Dog
Dec 23, 2013
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Had they given up both the Sac first and the LAL first I wouldve said they overpaid.
They didnt.

If they hadnt put the protections on them I still would have felt the Sixers were clear winners just not as cleanly. They did.

The fact that all the assets have 1st overall protection means that the optimal value of those picks isnt even a possibility for Boston.

Add that to Ainge's terrible draft record and i'll take those odds in a heartbeat
 

Embiid

*Injured
May 27, 2010
32,582
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Philadelphia
Had they given up both the Sac first and the LAL first I wouldve said they overpaid.
They didnt.

If they hadnt put the protections on them I still would have felt the Sixers were clear winners just not as cleanly. They did.

The fact that all the assets have 1st overall protection means that the optimal value of those picks isnt even a possibility for Boston.

Add that to Ainge's terrible draft record and i'll take those odds in a heartbeat

I would have freaked if that happened!

I agree...the "breakers" that Colangelo negotiated make it much more palatable. However, it is not conclusive yet to say we didn't overpay. The Celtics can still leverage that pick in many ways. There are already rumblings about getting Irving

The thing is if they drafted Fultz they would have had to pay him the higher rookie salary as the number 1 pick. Obviously, they were looking to shed salary to take on a high priced FA..they ultimately targeted Hayward. They would have been stuck trying to trade Fultz who didn't fit with them anyway and the Lakers still didn't have the assets to get him if they indeed wanted him. The Celts of course could have drafted Tatum at number 1 and they still would have had to pay him. No matter what they were the ones ultimately without the leverage if you think about it. The premium they asked for and got from the Sixers IMO was still too high considering the Celtics predicament. Whatever...let's just hope it doesn't benefit them too greatly to the point that we can't get out of the East for years because the Celtics are our barrier. It just sucks so bad doing a trade with a rival. I hope to hell Ainge is the one who botches everything. I mean to get Hayward they did have to shed a lot of good defensive players. I hope it jacks up their chemistry but I doubt it...
 

Lotusflower

Tha Snake, Tha Rat, Tha Cat, Tha Dog
Dec 23, 2013
4,446
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This is my rationale:

Imagine the scenario minus Fultz where everything goes right for the Sixers.
Embiid and Simmons are both healthy and durable, theyre putting up numbers, the Sixers are a ~40 win team on the rise. To make the next step youre still going to need a guard to run the PnR and hit shots from the perimeter. Even if Simmons has a jumpshot youre going to need excellent guard play especially to fill in the offense.

To get that guy you'll have to go and search him out. Free agency, trades, etc. Meaning you'll have to give up assets (roster players, cap space) to get what is in essence an older version of Fultz with more mileage, a higher price tag, and a more entrenched playstyle and temperament (ala Kyrie). There's something to be said for having your core homegrown. Winning and losing and growing together.

Say we stay pat at three. Youre either forced to take a guy who's less than ideal in Jackson/whoever or you call Ainge's bluff.

This is a bad drafting philosophy to me. Value doesnt exist in a vacuum, its exists in context. You dont wait on someone else in a position of strength to make a mistake and have it fall into your lap. You target a guy you want and get him if possible.

A player like Jackson has high upside but the value difference between him and Fultz is only made larger when look at the context of the Sixers subjectively.

Fultz also has high upside, not as high as Jackson but elite nonetheless, and he fills a gaping hole in the depth chart on this team with his skillset. Rather than hope Ainge makes a mistake and holding onto lotto tickets that may or may not impact the team in the way Fultz can potentially you take the upside + fit package over just upside.

Im a Lonzo fan. If we were sitting at 2 I would have kept our lotto tickets and just drafted Lonzo but Fultz with his offensive polish at this point in his development is the best type of prospect the Sixers could hope for at this point.

Another way to think of it is to look at what we potentially gave up: Tatum/Jackson/etc. + Number 2 overall ('18 or '19)

Say its the LAL first that ends up 2. Porter/Bagley would be a great get but we would STILL need a guard to play in the backcourt. If Tatum/Jackson/etc. became stars with us we would STILL need a guard. Not only does Fultz have greater upside than anyone in this draft other than Smith and Jackson he also is the most complete offensively and its those qualities that give Fultz value equal to or greater than the two firsts we gave up
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,325
103,986
Really not an Irving fan. I'm shocked that Ainge decided this is finally the right time to move a Brooklyn pick and included 3 legitimate assets on top of that.
 

Embiid

*Injured
May 27, 2010
32,582
20,877
Philadelphia
I hope this actually blows up in his face...but he leveraged the assets as I figured he would. I hate the Celtics so much and we have not started the season yet...
 

Lotusflower

Tha Snake, Tha Rat, Tha Cat, Tha Dog
Dec 23, 2013
4,446
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Didnt draft Fultz for free but gave up a ton for Kyrie.

So much for Celtics fans theory that he didnt want to draft Fultz because he already had IT.

Color me confused.
 

Embiid

*Injured
May 27, 2010
32,582
20,877
Philadelphia
Didnt draft Fultz for free but gave up a ton for Kyrie.

So much for Celtics fans theory that he didnt want to draft Fultz because he already had IT.

Color me confused.

They optimized salary for Irving and Hayward.....they netted Tatum and still have our pick and others. They gave up a lot but it was from a whole lot.

All I know is that this sucks for the Sixers in the East because the Cavs stay relevant and position themselves to remain relevant should LeBron split. Cetics will be an equal pain with all their proven all stars and future assets.

Eff me!
 

Lotusflower

Tha Snake, Tha Rat, Tha Cat, Tha Dog
Dec 23, 2013
4,446
4,659
They optimized salary for Irving and Hayward.....they netted Tatum and still have our pick and others. They gave up a lot but it was from a whole lot.

All I know is that this sucks for the Sixers in the East because the Cavs stay relevant and position themselves to remain relevant should LeBron split. Cetics will be an equal pain with all their proven all stars and future assets.

Eff me!

Its not a bad deal for the C's at all but you still need a player w/greater impact than Hayward or Kyrie to legitimately contend.

Tatum doesnt have that kind of upside imo. Brown does but I doubt he ever reaches.

The best chance to get that guy sits at the top of the 2018 draft and the C's gave up one of their lotto tickets there.

The main asset for the Cavs is the first make no mistake. Its a safety net of sorts in case LeBron leaves. The rest is just a reset on the current team to get them back to the Finals most likely in 2018.

It'll be interesting to see who finishes higher in the standings between Brooklyn and the Lakers. Some added intrigue to go with the Sixers conditions on the pick.
 

Snotbubbles

Registered User
Oct 25, 2007
3,889
161
The only thing about the trade I don't like is I don't know whether I want LA to bottom out or hang around 7-10.

Obvious answer is you want the Lakers to get #1 in 2018 and the Kings to get #1 in 2019. You also want the Sixers to make the playoffs in 2018-2019 so the Celtics get a non-lottery 1st round pick.
 

Ruck Over

When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Apr 19, 2016
4,197
3,323
Philadelphia, Pa
So, in a perfect world- Lakers suck so much donkey dong we get the #1 pick in 2018 & Kyrie signs with the Lakers in the next off season.

A guy can dream.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
52,627
85,325
Obvious answer is you want the Lakers to get #1 in 2018 and the Kings to get #1 in 2019. You also want the Sixers to make the playoffs in 2018-2019 so the Celtics get a non-lottery 1st round pick.
Yes that's the result we want but I'm talking about during the season. Should we root for LA to be the worst team in the league? If that happens, there's a 75% chance Boston is getting pick 2-4. Is that what we root for?
 

Snotbubbles

Registered User
Oct 25, 2007
3,889
161
Yes that's the result we want but I'm talking about during the season. Should we root for LA to be the worst team in the league? If that happens, there's a 75% chance Boston is getting pick 2-4. Is that what we root for?

I'm rooting for them to be the worst team in the league.
 

Embiid

*Injured
May 27, 2010
32,582
20,877
Philadelphia
Per Woj....trade may get nixed. Thomas' injury worse than Cavs thought or that little weasal Ainge let on. Thomas and Celts opted out of surgery but now looks like he needs it and might be out all season! Cavs might seek more in compensation but I hope they back out and stick it to the Celts. Would be great if the Celts passed on Fultz and are stuck with a short and injured point guard! Ainge is such a little *******...


https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/901280704465694720
 
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Hiesenberg

Registered User
Jul 2, 2013
15,576
1,875
Either back out, or make them give up the rest of their firsts from other teams (Sixers, Memphis whoever else)
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,325
103,986
You can't just renegotiate the deal. You have to void it and start over, which is worse for the Celtics. Now you have a hurt Thomas who may want to force his way out and/or have no interest in staying and Crowder with a chip on his shoulder. The only way to replace Thomas' salary is Smart or Brown + filler without involving a 3rd team.
 

BackToTheBrierePatch

Nope not today.
Feb 19, 2003
65,865
24,271
Concord, New Hampshire
Per Woj....trade may get nixed. Thomas' injury worse than Cavs thought or that little weasal Ainge let on. Thomas and Celts opted out of surgery but now looks like he needs it and might be out all season! Cavs might seek more in compensation but I hope they back out and stick it to the Celts. Would be great if the Celts passed on Fultz and are stuck with a short and injured point guard! Ainge is such a little *******...


https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/901280704465694720

I am not a NBA fan or anything but He was on the Freddie Coleman show last night on ESPNradio. he said that Thomas isn't even running yet. May not even be ready to start the regular season.
in big trade like that It would be dumb for Cleveland to not ask for more if they want to move forward with the deal. Woj also said they valued that Brooklyn pick more than anything else in the trade.
 
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