Phil Kessel vs Max Pacioretty

[Filthy Dangles]

Better player?

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[BHD]

Definitely Kessel at his peak. Although, the wheels are starting to fall off with him.

 

[K Fleur]

Are we talking about right now, or the totality of their careers?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Are we talking about right now, or the totality of their careers?

Now and the near future

 

[K Fleur]

Now and the near future

Then it’s Pacioretty. Especially since Kessel appears to be very much on the decline.

Though in totality and at their respective bests Kessel is a(very)borderline HOF player, Pac is not even close to that.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Then it’s Pacioretty. Especially since Kessel appears to be very much on the decline.

Though in totality and at their respective bests Kessel is a(very)borderline HOF player, Pac is not even close to that.

I'm gonna go OT for a sec here, because I'm glad you mentioned this, and I agree with it, there's a slight (very slight, imo) chance Kessel could be HHoF'er with virtually no chance for MP right now. But that speaks more to the fortunate situations Kessel found himself in vs Pacioretty, imo. Kessel was a 'bad team scorer' for a lot of years in Toronto and then goes to Pittsburgh and doesn't have to be 'the guy', compiled a ton of points on the PP last couple years, not even good at Even Strength.

Pacioretty has never been the liability Kessel has at Even Strength, comparable goal scorer. Sure he hasn't put up the point numbers Kessel has but again some that is Kessel is just better offensive talent and some of it is the shoes they wore.

When you look back at these players and look at their paper stats and accomplishments Kessel will look a lot better and idk how much of a hot take this is but to me, Pacioretty might have always been just as if not more valuable a player than Kessel just didn't find himself in as fortunate of situations. no coincidence his points have dropped signifcantly leaving Pittsburgh and not playing on their PP anymore.

but i digress.

 

[K Fleur]

I'm gonna go OT for a sec here, because I'm glad you mentioned this, and I agree with it, there's a slight (very slight, imo) chance Kessel could be HHoF'er with virtually no chance for MP right now. But that speaks more to the fortunate situations Kessel found himself in vs Pacioretty, imo. Kessel was a 'bad team scorer' for a lot of years in Toronto and then goes to Pittsburgh and doesn't have to be 'the guy', compiled a ton of points on the PP last couple years, not even good at Even Strength.

Pacioretty has never been the liability Kessel has at Even Strength, comparable goal scorer. Sure he hasn't put up the point numbers Kessel has but again some that is Kessel is just better offensive talent and some of it is the shoes they wore.

When you look back at these players and look at their paper stats and accomplishments Kessel will look a lot better and idk how much of a hot take this is but to me, Pacioretty might have always been just as if not more valuable a player than Kessel just didn't find himself in as fortunate of situations. no coincidence his points have dropped signifcantly leaving Pittsburgh and not playing on their PP anymore.

but i digress.

So Phil Kessel's HOF chances are a product "more fortunate situations" like, but not limited too, playing on the sad sack 09-15 Toronto Maple Leafs.

You wanna argue that in their totality Kessel/Pac were similar level players then that's your own prerogative man. It'd be a waste of both of our time talking about it with me as I find that kinda ridiculous.

 

[GlitchMarner]

I'm gonna go OT for a sec here, because I'm glad you mentioned this, and I agree with it, there's a slight (very slight, imo) chance Kessel could be HHoF'er with virtually no chance for MP right now. But that speaks more to the fortunate situations Kessel found himself in vs Pacioretty, imo. Kessel was a 'bad team scorer' for a lot of years in Toronto and then goes to Pittsburgh and doesn't have to be 'the guy', compiled a ton of points on the PP last couple years, not even good at Even Strength.

Pacioretty has never been the liability Kessel has at Even Strength, comparable goal scorer. Sure he hasn't put up the point numbers Kessel has but again some that is Kessel is just better offensive talent and some of it is the shoes they wore.

When you look back at these players and look at their paper stats and accomplishments Kessel will look a lot better and idk how much of a hot take this is but to me, Pacioretty might have always been just as if not more valuable a player than Kessel just didn't find himself in as fortunate of situations. no coincidence his points have dropped signifcantly leaving Pittsburgh and not playing on their PP anymore.

but i digress.

Kessel has shown the ability to be able to put up points on very good and very poor teams. In his prime, he was simply a better offensive player than Patches. He was a better skater and passer and could also snipe the puck. Now it seems like his lack of conditioning and off-season training are catching up to him as he ages.

He did have more offensive freedom in TOR than Patches had in MTL, but playing in front of some lackluster defenses and inconsistent goalies also exposed his defensive shortcomings more than they would have been exposed if he had played in front of peak Price and MTL's system. Patches was a better defensive player but has never been Mark Stone defensively.

I think in a vacuum, Kessel was simply the better and more valuable player because of his superior offensive talent. I don't think Pacioretty brought enough in terms of defense, physicality or intangibles to make up for that gap.

Pac is better this season, but he was disappointing last year and I'm not sure he was better overall despite Kessel's ES struggles.

 

[McOilers97]

There's no argument for Pacrioretty's career being close to Kessel's. Their goal scoring figures are very similar, but Pacioretty's career high is 67 points - and Kessel has topped 70 points 5 times. Kessel is also a line-driving type of player with game-breaking ability, while Pacioretty is a complementary player with finishing skills.

Kessel probably won't make the HHOF, but he isn't far away. Pacioretty is miles away.

 

[tony d]

Phil "The Thrill" Kessel.

 

[Menzinger]

If Kessels best prime years weren't absolutely wasted on some garbage Leafs teams, his point production would look even better.

Patches is a fine player but Kessel wons this won handidly imo

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

how about pacioretty score more than 80 points once. maybe even show up in the playoffs/olympics.

Kessel no contest

 

[Prarievarg]

Can't vote anything other than MaxPac after how bad Kessel has been for the coyotes. I still believe The Thrill has more in the tank, though.

 

[bobholly39]

If Kessels best prime years weren't absolutely wasted on some garbage Leafs teams, his point production would look even better.

Patches is a fine player but Kessel wons this won handidly imo

I assume this is more about now/moving forward than career if not id expect people to unanimously agree.

I tend to give Kessel benefit of doubt that he bounces back but hes having an aweful year coming off an also super disappointing season in Pitt. He may be done and if so - Pacioretty might be better moving forward

 

[ijuka]

Pacioretty because his name makes for better memes.

 

[Help]

Pax Macioretty

 

[Empoleon8771]

Unless Kessel really turns it on soon, I don't know how you can vote Kessel here. He has fallen off a cliff at ES. I thought he started to sputter at the end of last year with the Penguins, but he has taken an even bigger step back with the Coyotes.