Phil Kessel - "The Tao of Phil" - TSN Feature 2017

[Tom Hanks]

Kunitz was turned on in like 2013.

He scored 35 goals in 13/14. He started to slow down after the Olympics

 

[Gurglesons]

He scored 35 goals in 13/14. He started to slow down after the Olympics

I’m not talking about his actual performance. I’m talking about Pittsburgh fans criticizing the Kuni - Crosby - Dupuis since Kuni and Dupuis couldn’t produce on their own.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm sure Hornqvist will continue to shrug off the incredible abuse he takes in perpetuity. Because he's shredded and stuff.

Hornqvist is a great player, now. He won't age well. His lack of raw ability, skating and offensive IQ make this likely (though clearly he is not lacking in sheer will). He's also a weird fit on this roster as far as line construction and the team has an overabundance of RW.

I'm not really clamoring to trade him at all. I just get baffled that people are so willing to move on from a 90+ point RW but absolutely bristle at even the mention of a possibility of looking ahead re: Hornqvist's status, here.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think the difference is Kessel is easier to replace within our roster.

That being said in a year or two depending on our success, I’d be opening to moving everyone that isn’t Crosby, Malkin or Jake.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I’m not talking about his actual performance. I’m talking about Pittsburgh fans criticizing the Kuni - Crosby - Dupuis since Kuni and Dupuis couldn’t produce on their own.

That was Dan’s fault (possibly Shero’s too)

 

[Darth Vitale]

All right... which one of you bastards got bored-drunk this summer and had this tattoo made as way to remember Phil's glorious (and ongoing) time here? Can the other leg be far behind?

There's no way you are not a member of this forum so just admit it now.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Kunitz was turned on in like 2013.

I’m not talking about his actual performance. I’m talking about Pittsburgh fans criticizing the Kuni - Crosby - Dupuis since Kuni and Dupuis couldn’t produce on their own.

Nobody was criticizing Kunitz when he was scoring 35 goals. Come on, now. He started to get a lot of hate when he was scoring 40 points while being stapled to Crosby's wing.

 

[mpp9]

How players fit with Sid and Geno becomes less important as Sid and Geno age. We're gonna need players to help carry the offense and fill needs on the ice and in terms of construction of a winning team.

Kessel isn't someone I'd say plays the way Malkin likes. And PH doesn't have the speed to do what Sid likes coming through the neutral zone.

But they are what separate us from a 1st/2nd round exit and a Cup.

I also disagree that PH is going to regress much. He'll likely get injured more but he doesn't have a lot of skill that can diminish. He'll always be a psycho and want to be around the net. There are plenty of prime 24 year old gritty forwards who can't do what he does because they're not as nuts and willing to take abuse.

His ES production could dip but as long as he can be a 3rd line producer and 1st unit PP guy, he'll be fine.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

I think people were starting to criticize Kunitz then, how his game changed to becoming more of a sniper and he was letting Crosby and Dupuis do all the dirty work. I remember arguing against someone that at least we finally had a player manage to score 30+ on Sid's line (to this day he's still the only one to do it...sad). The other poster (forget who) basically said that production wouldn't keep up (of course it wouldn't) and with his new found lack of intensity he would essentially become what he did in fact become, a guy fumbling pucks and ruining possession. There were a few far-seeing fans who criticized him. Then there were guys like me who had his head in the sand.


Also the problem wasn't necessarily Kunitz or Dupuis on Sid's line, it was having both of them on Sid's line at the same time.

 

[Pancakes]

I think people were starting to criticize Kunitz then, how his game changed to becoming more of a sniper and he was letting Crosby and Dupuis do all the dirty work. I remember arguing against someone that at least we finally had a player manage to score 30+ on Sid's line (to this day he's still the only one to do it...sad). The other poster (forget who) basically said that production wouldn't keep up (of course it wouldn't) and with his new found lack of intensity he would essentially become what he did in fact become, a guy fumbling pucks and ruining possession. There were a few far-seeing fans who criticized him. Then there were guys like me who had his head in the sand.


Also the problem wasn't necessarily Kunitz or Dupuis on Sid's line, it was having both of them on Sid's line at the same time.

I don't think it had anything to do with a style change with Kunitz. He got old. It wasn't him suddenly becoming lazy or less physical. He lost a step. And then lost another. It happens.

 

[BladeRunner66]

He's about to become Penguins' all-time ironman as well.

Most consecutive regular season games played with Pittsburgh Penguins (min. 200):

319 GP Craig Adams
313 GP Ron Schock
302 GP Jordan Staal
276 GP Nick Harbaruk
254 GP Evgeni Malkin
246 GP Phil Kessel
238 GP Pascal Dupuis
235 GP Ron Stackhouse
219 GP Alexei Kovalev
207 GP Peter Lee
207 GP Jaromir Jagr
202 GP Dave Burrows
201 GP Ron Francis

Most consecutive regular season+playoff games played with Pittsburgh Penguins (min. 200):

358 GP Jordan Staal
328 GP Ron Schock
307 GP Phil Kessel
303 GP Evgeni Malkin
290 GP Nick Harbaruk
266 GP Pascal Dupuis
250 GP Ron Stackhouse
243 GP Jaromir Jagr
241 GP Kevin Stevens
234 GP Ron Francis
219 GP Chris Kunitz
214 GP Dave Burrows
214 GP Peter Lee
203 GP Joe Mullen
200 GP Paul Coffey

Most consecutive regular season games played with Pittsburgh Penguins (min. 200):

Jesus f***ing Christ, only 74 more from Kessel to beat that Adams leech, do it, please.

 

[KIRK]

Jesus ****ing Christ, only 74 more from Kessel to beat that Adams leech, do it, please.

Priorities . . .

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I think people were starting to criticize Kunitz then, how his game changed to becoming more of a sniper and he was letting Crosby and Dupuis do all the dirty work. I remember arguing against someone that at least we finally had a player manage to score 30+ on Sid's line (to this day he's still the only one to do it...sad). The other poster (forget who) basically said that production wouldn't keep up (of course it wouldn't) and with his new found lack of intensity he would essentially become what he did in fact become, a guy fumbling pucks and ruining possession. There were a few far-seeing fans who criticized him. Then there were guys like me who had his head in the sand.


Also the problem wasn't necessarily Kunitz or Dupuis on Sid's line, it was having both of them on Sid's line at the same time.

I'd say the biggest problem was Kunitz starting to think he was Jari Kurri.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Kunitz was at his absolute best when he was a physical demon creating space. He wasn't posting 35g, but I think he was better for this team's chances at winning when he was scoring less and being an absolute terror on skates. He shifted to a more floater style for whatever reason and while his production went up, he lost the element of his game that made him so great. We didn't need 35g Kunitz, we needed "put defensemen through the glass into the 3rd row" Kunitz, making space for Sid to do his thing, and making opposing players constantly wary of his presence on the ice. That style translates much better, is much more effective, and helps this team in particular win in the playoffs much more than the floater, pseudo-sniper style.

The transition from one style to another happened around 2013/14.

 

[Vujtek]

Good read on Phil:

Why the Penguins are happy to let Phil Kessel be Phil Kessel - Sportsnet

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think the difference is Kessel is easier to replace within our roster.

That being said in a year or two depending on our success, I’d be opening to moving everyone that isn’t Crosby, Malkin or Jake.

People say this so freely right now.

They won't when it actually happens. I 100% guarantee this. Unless we sucked for decades and got lucky with a bunch of high draft picks like his former team, we aren't going to replace him with Sprong unless we get lucky there too and I am high on Sprong.

 

[Tom Hanks]

People say this so freely right now.

They won't when it actually happens. I 100% guarantee this. Unless we sucked for decades and got lucky with a bunch of high draft picks like his former team, we aren't going to replace him with Sprong unless we get lucky there too and I am high on Sprong.

Yeah he’s scored 54 playoff points in 61 playoff games. That is not easy to replace. Sure there is a time to move on but when he leaves you need your overall team to better and it isnt that easy especially with his NTC

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah he’s scored 54 playoff points in 61 playoff games. That is not easy to replace. Sure there is a time to move on but when he leaves you need your overall team to better and it so t that easy especially with his NTC

You only move on from a player like Kessel if he wants out or your team is in such a good spot that losing one of the top wingers in the game, will still improve your team.

I don't think Duchene for Kessel does that, for me anyway. The idea of Duchene is intriguing yes, but what Kessel has done for the Pens is beyond anything we could have hoped from him (for us with reasonable expectations). Dooche was a guy I was intrigued with before Brassard, but not at the expense of Kessel.

Not yet. If by the end of the season and playoffs, Sprong has proven he's every bit as good as Kessel, if not better, then ok, cool...move Kessel, sign Duchene.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Now I also wanted to add...if at the end of the playoffs, Sprong has put up 30 goals and 50pts and is proving the talent is there to push Kessel out because of salary and an upgrade on the left side...I am all for Duchene, but then we're also going to lose Hagelin (huge part of our speed game) and I get that, he's a minor cog production wise if you are going to ignore his other metrics with the 2-way game and PK abilities because when you upgrade, people tend to forget that while you upgrade on production, you are losing skill in other areas of the game.

Also how does that Duchene signing even work? How idiotic would be to get Duchene to use him on the RW, very Iginla-Bylsma-esque kind of stupidity in my books. You'd then be looking to use Guentzel with Sid and Duchene with Malkin?

I don't see that as a good fit. I think Jake has been okay-ish with Geno, but he's always looked best with Sid because of the way they both think the game and we started to see the elite elements of that in the playoffs last year with Sid being the beneficiary of some Jake-vision.

I look at an upgrade on Hagelin if he doesn't sign for a good deal, but I keep Kessel as long as I can with the discount we have him at. Then I look at either seeing if Sheahan is worth keeping for the 3C role and look at maybe just keeping that cap for the deadline when Brass moves on and on raises as the upgrades we will have next summer will be the young talent on the team, getting better.

I said Brass was a nice dream, but that trade took a few moving parts to make work and he had 1.5yrs-ish to make that move for. Duchene, I don't know...I just don't know.

 

[Marcobruin]

Sprong being compared to Kessel
Gotto be kidding..right?
Kessel is and has been an iron Man star from day 1 and a playoff beast at that. When Pitt traded for him ...I said great trade ...the cup is coming back to Pitt and of course it did.
I know Sprong very well he lived
About 12 min from my home .I used to see him shoot a hockey ball in his outdoor net .
Sprong is no Kessel not even close and will never be...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Sprong being compared to Kessel
Gotto be kidding..right?
Kessel is and has been an iron Man star from day 1 and a playoff beast at that. When Pitt traded for him ...I said great trade ...the cup is coming back to Pitt and of course it did.
I know Sprong very well he lived
About 12 min from my home .I used to see him shoot a hockey ball in his outdoor net .
Sprong is no Kessel not even close and will never be...

Not sure what shooting a hockey ball has to do with anything but...

Kessel is likely the second best winger of his era behind AO, so uh ya, it’s pretty likely Sprong is never going to be that good.

Sprong if everything maxes out for him will be a 25 goal, 45-50 point guy. Most Pens fans I’d imagine would be elated with that.

 

[Marcobruin]

Not sure what shooting a hockey ball has to do with anything but...

Kessel is likely the second best winger of his era behind AO, so uh ya, it’s pretty likely Sprong is never going to be that good.

Sprong if everything maxes out for him will be a 25 goal, 45-50 point guy. Most Pens fans I’d imagine would be elated with that.

Shooting the ball has nothing to do with anything... simply alluding to fact on how close this guy lived to my home ... Was under quite a close radar...
His dad is somewhat of a nut job...
That's a little of the Sprong profile

And yes if he scores 25 consistently and I don't think he will ...you should be elated

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Shooting the ball has nothing to do with anything... simply alluding to fact on how close this guy lived to my home ... Was under quite a close radar...
His dad is somewhat of a nut job...
That's a little of the Sprong profile

And yes if he scores 25 consistently and I don't think he will ...you should be elated

Guys have no control over their fathers. There are tons of nutjob parents these days, I see it every day I take my daughter to the rink. Even Troy Crosby from what I’ve heard caused issues, but his kid seems to be doing fine.

No idea what Sprong has to do with Kessel though and why a young second round pick is being compared to a future HOF winger.

 

[Marcobruin]

Guys have no control over their fathers. There are tons of nutjob parents these days, I see it every day I take my daughter to the rink. Even Troy Crosby from what I’ve heard caused issues, but his kid seems to be doing fine.

No idea what Sprong has to do with Kessel though and why a young second round pick is being compared to a future HOF winger.

I scanned through some posts on this topic....did I misunderstand or was Sprong proposed as a Kessel replacement..
Anyhow.. back to Kessel .... Can't tell you how much I hated that we traded him to Toronto but we were so fortunate to not only get a second overall but that a Seguin was available at that spot..
Kessel is marvelous player who has been surrounded by trivial gossip..i.e guys like Ron Wilson
Where is he now btw?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I scanned through some posts on this topic....did I misunderstand or was Sprong proposed as a Kessel replacement..
Anyhow.. back to Kessel .... Can't tell you how much I hated that we traded him to Toronto but we were so fortunate to not only get a second overall but that a Seguin was available at that spot..
Kessel is marvelous player who has been surrounded by trivial gossip..i.e guys like Ron Wilson
Where is he now btw?

People have been trying to get rid of Kessel almost since he became a Pen. There was a lot of frothing at the mouth in anticipation of a Kessel trade among Pens fans this summer when rumors were flying. Basically, he doesn’t play the typical NA style of hockey so he gets banged on constantly for not fitting this prototype.

It’s one of the dumbest things I’ve witnessed as a hockey fan, but whatever. I’ve grown weary of defending Kessel, and he pretty much always makes fools out of his haters/critics so that makes it quite satisfying TBTH.

Sprong is just a prop in the anti-Kessel agenda, not his fault. Sprong has filled the net at every level, but even if he produces like that in the NHL, I doubt any reasonable Pens fan thinks he’s a Kessel replacement.