Phil Kessel performance lately.

[ChaosAgent]

Schultz? Hornqvist whose slump is much worse than Kessel's? Rust? Come on. You are underrating Kessel almost as much as the comment you have cited overrates him.

None of them will put up as many points as him. All of them are integral to winning. We have whined about Schultz's absence incessantly. How many conversations about lines have devolved into "man if only we had another 1-2 Rusts."

I didn't say they were more valuable/better. Just that you could make a strong case for Dumo and Murray and a fringey case for Rust and Schultz.

 

[Icarium]

None of them will put up as many points of him. All of them are integral to winning. We have whined about Schultz's absence incessantly.

And if Kessel were injured we would have done the same with him. It means very little. I don't see how Kessel was any less integral for winning in 2016 and 2017 than any of those players, except Murray obviously, due to the peculiarity of the goalie position. Maybe he can't do that any more, we will see. But claiming he is worse than a second pairing defenceman and Rust who is just as streaky but lacks Kessel's playmaking skills or his elite wrister isn't something I can behind.

 

[ChaosAgent]

And if Kessel were injured we would have done the same with him. It means very little. I don't see how Kessel was any less integral for winning in 2016 and 2017 than any of those players, except Murray obviously, due to the peculiarity of the goalie position. Maybe he can't do that any more, we will see. But claiming he is worse than a second pairing defenceman and Rust who is just as streaky but lacks Kessel's playmaking skills or his elite wrister isn't something I can behind.

And Kessel lacks Rust's willingness to forecheck, work along the boards and be a positive influence in the defensive zone. This stuff matters. The more I watch the game - especially today's game which is faster and more fluid than ever - the less enamored I get with production as the key determinant of a forward's effectiveness. Hence, I value Kessel a lot lower at this point in time than almost everyone else.

I'll admit it: my feelings on Kessel are my Rorschach test on one-way gunners who hurt you on most shifts when they aren't producing. I get how others view him as the missing piece that led to our 2016-2017 victories. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Kessel has a stretch like this every year, and every single time his critics come out of the woodwork to say I told you so. And so far in his career, he has bounced back and made them look silly for it. In 16 and 17, it wasn't even just producing. He was legitimately working hard, winning battles, backchecking, etc. Kessel could have easily won the Conn Smythe over Sid in 2016 and nobody would have questioned it; he was that good.

 

[molon labe]

Kessel has a stretch like this every year, and every single time his critics come out of the woodwork to say I told you so. And so far in his career, he has bounced back and made them look silly for it. In 16 and 17, it wasn't even just producing. He was legitimately working hard, winning battles, backchecking, etc. Kessel could have easily won the Conn Smythe over Sid in 2016 and nobody would have questioned it; he was that good.

Very true. However: A big difference this year has been Guentzel's sustained performance. Guentzel replaces his production ES and would be a better asset on PP1. Guentzel also costs less. I'm not saying Phil's production would be easily replaced, it's just that when he's not producing he literally brings nothing else.

When Sid/Geno go through a slump (for comparison sake), they command the attention from the top pairing D, put stress on opposing forwards, and contribute (especially in Sid's case) defensively. Phil is not respected in the same way. I think the reason they would move on from him would be strictly in a big way to upgrade the top 4 D. If you grab a stud of a top 4 D, then moving on from him is completely acceptable. Moving on from him simply to get another 2-way forward is not what I think many are asking for.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Very true. However: A big difference this year has been Guentzel's sustained performance. Guentzel replaces his production ES and would be a better asset on PP1. Guentzel also costs less. I'm not saying Phil's production would be easily replaced, it's just that when he's not producing he literally brings nothing else.

When Sid/Geno go through a slump (for comparison sake), they command the attention from the top pairing D, put stress on opposing forwards, and contribute (especially in Sid's case) defensively. Phil is not respected in the same way. I think the reason they would move on from him would be strictly in a big way to upgrade the top 4 D. If you grab a stud of a top 4 D, then moving on from him is completely acceptable. Moving on from him simply to get another 2-way forward is not what I think many are asking for.

I am cool with moving Kessel in a trade like you're describing actually. Star for star type of deal. I do not want to see us trade him for picks and prospects and spare parts.

 

[Icarium]

Guentzel replaces his production ES and would be a better asset on PP1.

Says who? I love Jake but he hasn't exactly been amazing on PP1 either. The entire unit has been a dumpster fire for a while now. When in form Kessel is one of the best in the business on the PP.

 

[molon labe]

Says who? I love Jake but he hasn't exactly been amazing on PP1 either. The entire unit has been a dumpster fire for a while now. When in form Kessel is one of the best in the business on the PP.

Guentzel has not had even marginally the same chance on PP1 as Kessel has. He's better at making contact with the puck, is a better puck handler in-zone, does not shy away from contact especially when keeping a play alive, could be argued is equally good at passing as Phil, and has an amazing shot of his own. You're losing Phil's wrister - but he uses that maybe once every 20 games on the power play. What you're gaining is a more complete player who could help alleviate our weakness when the D pinch.

 

[Gurglesons]

I am cool with moving Kessel in a trade like you're describing actually. Star for star type of deal. I do not want to see us trade him for picks and prospects and spare parts.

I think at some point as we start to see this team struggle more, Malkin fall off, Murray have injury history, etc. you have to weigh whether moving out Kessel and going through a significant retool is the best move for the franchise if they do want to win again while Sid and Geno are here.

 

[mpp9]

I think at some point as we start to see this team struggle more, Malkin fall off, Murray have injury history, etc. you have to weigh whether moving out Kessel and going through a significant retool is the best move for the franchise if they do want to win again while Sid and Geno are here.

If the Preds don't land one of the big names at the deadline or this summer, I think a big deal with them makes sense. Something around Kessel for one of their D.

If we continue to lose the next couple of weeks even when healthy, I'd go blockbuster with Anaheim.

 

[Gurglesons]

If the Preds don't land one of the big names at the deadline or this summer, I think a big deal with them makes sense. Something around Kessel for one of their D.

If we continue to lose the next couple of weeks even when healthy, I'd go blockbuster with Anaheim.

Kessel to the Preds makes a lot of sense, but I really doubt we’d get one of their D. Maybe Fabbro if we are lucky.

If I’m Rutherford I’m bother Murray every day for one of those Anaheim Ds.

 

[mpp9]

Kessel to the Preds makes a lot of sense, but I really doubt we’d get one of their D. Maybe Fabbro if we are lucky.

If I’m Rutherford I’m bother Murray every day for one of those Anaheim Ds.

Preds fans seem very willing to move one of their D for a forward who finally puts them over the top. They were offering up Subban if they went out early this postseason. I'm not a big fan of that guy being an attention whore, but even at his cap hit, having a blue line with Letang and Subban on the ice at all times would be pretty tits.

I'd put Dumoulin on the table for Fowler if that's what it took. Letang can carry a serviceable D partner. And Fowler-Schultz would be money. Maatta-Rik as a 3rd pairing could step up when injuries hit us.

Maybe something around Dumoulin+Blueger/Simon/ZAR+1st for Fowler. We'd need to cut cap somewhere else but it might interest Murray.

 

[Will Hunting]

Preds fans seem very willing to move one of their D for a forward who finally puts them over the top. They were offering up Subban if they went out early this postseason. I'm not a big fan of that guy being an attention ****e, but even at his cap hit, having a blue line with Letang and Subban on the ice at all times would be pretty ****.

I'd put Dumoulin on the table for Fowler if that's what it took. Letang can carry a serviceable D partner. And Fowler-Schultz would be money. Maatta-Rik as a 3rd pairing could step up when injuries hit us.

Maybe something around Dumoulin+Blueger/Simon/ZAR+1st for Fowler. We'd need to cut cap somewhere else but it might interest Murray.

Don´t go crazy, please. There is a reason that Anaheim is bad. Fowler is not THIS good.

 

[Pancakes]

Preds fans seem very willing to move one of their D for a forward who finally puts them over the top. They were offering up Subban if they went out early this postseason. I'm not a big fan of that guy being an attention ****e, but even at his cap hit, having a blue line with Letang and Subban on the ice at all times would be pretty ****.

I'd put Dumoulin on the table for Fowler if that's what it took. Letang can carry a serviceable D partner. And Fowler-Schultz would be money. Maatta-Rik as a 3rd pairing could step up when injuries hit us.

Maybe something around Dumoulin+Blueger/Simon/ZAR+1st for Fowler. We'd need to cut cap somewhere else but it might interest Murray.

Fowler is not very good. He's been a negative possession guy most of his career. No way in hell would I move Dumo for him. Not even straight up.

Like Fowler is JJ the younger. A guy who looks like he has a lot of talent but who consistently performs poorly.

 

[Pancakes]

Kessel to the Preds makes a lot of sense, but I really doubt we’d get one of their D. Maybe Fabbro if we are lucky.

If I’m Rutherford I’m bother Murray every day for one of those Anaheim Ds.

Kessel for Ekholm seems like a deal that makes sense for both teams. They get a scorer, and we get a much needed top 4 d who has a reasonable cap hit.

The problem of course becomes how we replace Kessel's production. So it might be trading one problem for another. But in terms of value at least Kessel for Ekholm seems like a reasonable idea.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kessel for Ekholm seems like a deal that makes sense for both teams. They get a scorer, and we get a much needed top 4 d who has a reasonable cap hit.

The problem of course becomes how we replace Kessel's production. So it might be trading one problem for another. But in terms of value at least Kessel for Ekholm seems like a reasonable idea.

Ekholm is Nash’s best D this year. No chance in hell they move him for a 32 year old Kessel. They could probably get a player like Marner for him.

 

[Pancakes]

Ekholm is Nash’s best D this year. No chance in hell they move him for a 32 year old Kessel. They could probably get a player like Marner for him.

I've always assumed they value Ekholm the least out of their big four but who knows. I'd obviously take any one of them. No way in hell we'd ever get Josi imo. I sincerely doubt we'd get Subban. Ellis or Ekholm seem like the guys they would move if they traded any of their d.

I assume if such a move did happen it would be an off season thing. And that we might have to add.

 

[LittleSpoon]

I’ll take anyone of Nashville’s top 4 for Kessel. That to me seems like a good trade for both teams. And I bet he would post crazy points there. And we would have all our transition issues solved. At least that’s my dream if we are to move on from Kessel at any point.

I’d prefer Ellis if I had the choice though