Phil Housley discussion thread

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Sabresfansince1980

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And a Stanley Cup

And he won't be a HC any time again soon. A Jack Adams is simply about what coach did very well or looked very good while a team played well or made a big turnaround. It's just for that season. One season (good or bad), one SC title, and one award doesn't determine a HC's status as G/B/U/GOAT.

Last season doesn't define Housley as a HC, and neither does this ten game ride, and probably not this season (I mean...barring some ridiculous steamroll to a SC title, being Buffalo and all). Nobody thinks Housley is awesome, most don't think he's really good or even good. Most just have some patience to wait and see how he and the team pans out, and I personally reject any extreme or set-in-stone opinion one way or the other. Too much time and developments, and results have to be seen yet. It's silly to be making pointed judgments right now.
 
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Sabresfansince1980

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Since advanced stats are being used to define Housley in this thread, I'll put these examples here. According to xGF and xGA (expected goals for and against), the difference between those two numbers is xG+/-...basically the same type of stat as GF vs GA as a +/- in most website standings. The rankings for xG+/- gives the following "stellar" results...

Carolina should be the best team in the league by far.
Edmonton is better than Nash, Tor, Buf, CBJ, Wpg, Wash
StL is better than Ana, Was, Van
LA is better than those teams plus Col, Wpg, Buf, NYI
Mon and NJ rank 6 and 7

On and on...take those numbers for what you will, but I wouldn't make any big judgments based on them.

NHL Team Stats - Corsica Hockey
 
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Jim Bob

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Like most things, I believe that Housley isn't as bad as last season's results and he's not as good as the recent 10 game winning streak might indicate.

Some of the improved results are due to Housley learning from his first season as an NHL head coach and improving.

Some of the improved results are due to the changes in the roster that Botterill made this offseason.

Some of the improved results are due to better health to start the year than we have seen in recent seasons.

I always want to give a head coach at least two full seasons before judging them. Housley's first season was a rough one. But, his second season is looking to be much improved.

I can also understand why Housley will get a lot of Jack Adams run. He is the coach of a team that has gone from DFL last year to top 5 in the league after 26 games this season.

Any team that sees that happen will more than likely see their coach get run for the Jack Adams and their GM get run for executive of the year.
 

CatsforReinhart

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His team is ready to compete. That is on Housley not the players. Housley gets credit for having his team show up every night.

Lets not downplay the fact that in sports the coach's job is to have his team prepared. They are in every game they play. 100% that is Housley. If you are a Housley hater you can spin it any way you want but 99% of the time of a team doesn't like a coach they don't play for him and there is always in house fighting.

This year the team is prepared and competing.
 

struckbyaparkedcar

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Since advanced stats are being used to define Housley in this thread, I'll put these examples here. According to xGF and xGA (expected goals for and against), the difference between those two numbers is xG+/-...basically the same type of stat as GF vs GA as a +/- in most website standings. The rankings for xG+/- gives the following "stellar" results...

Carolina should be the best team in the league by far.
Edmonton is better than Nash, Tor, Buf, CBJ, Wpg, Wash
StL is better than Ana, Was, Van
LA is better than those teams plus Col, Wpg, Buf, NYI
Mon and NJ rank 6 and 7

On and on...take those numbers for what you will, but I wouldn't make any big judgments based on them.

NHL Team Stats - Corsica Hockey
The only other team 16th or better in point generation and 17th or worse in *all* of the stats I listed are the Islanders.

Good cherrypick, though.
 

debaser66

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The only thing to change is that our defense seems to play like Phil in or own d zone.
Too many guys forget to take out their man in front of or net.
This should be cleaned up.
Yesterday was a prime example.
They allow to many second chances from high danger areas.

Good for them to keep Thompson in.
He looks much better now.
 

Sabresfansince1980

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The only other team 16th or better in point generation and 17th or worse in *all* of the stats I listed are the Islanders.

Good cherrypick, though.

I didn't sift through a bunch of stats enough to cherry pick anything. I went straight to what should be the ultimate goal behind all the other advanced stats - ie generating the biggest positive difference between expected goals for and expected goals against.

If teams are doing all the underlying tasks well enough to create the best positive difference, it should show in the xGF+/-. I'm sure you'll tell me that's somehow wrong though, since the xGF+/- doesn't reflect the standings with any consistency.
 

struckbyaparkedcar

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I didn't sift through a bunch of stats enough to cherry pick anything. I went straight to what should be the ultimate goal behind all the other advanced stats - ie generating the biggest positive difference between expected goals for and expected goals against.

If teams are doing all the underlying tasks well enough to create the best positive difference, it should show in the xGF+/-. I'm sure you'll tell me that's somehow wrong though, since the xGF+/- doesn't reflect the standings with any consistency.
13 of the 16 xG teams are also in the top 16 in terms of points per game.

You are cherrypicking one of a handful of stats presented to you to obfuscate the fact that the Sabres are a comprehensively below average ES team backed up by a bad power play.
 

Sabresfansince1980

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13 of the 16 xG teams are also in the top 16 in terms of points per game.

You are cherrypicking one of a handful of stats presented to you to obfuscate the fact that the Sabres are a comprehensively below average ES team backed up by a bad power play.

2018-19 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com
NHL Team Stats - Corsica Hockey

Go to the top link and click on pts% for a 1-31 rank of teams, go to the next link and click on xG+/- so it shows best to worst, and compare the two lists.

1st - only 11 of the top teams in pts% are in the top 16 of xG+/-.
2nd - you obfuscate by generalizing when you simply say "x number of teams in one column are also in the other column". There is a huge variation of where teams rank between the two lists. I'll make it easy for everyone else by listing each team by their pts% rank, then list their xG+/- rank...

TBL - 5
TOR - 15
BUF - 20
COL - 18
NSH- 13
WAS - 26
BOS - 12
CBJ - 14
WPG - 22
CAL - 8
MIN - 4
CAR - 1
NYI - 19
SJS - 3
DAL - 16
MON - 6
NYR - 24
VGS - 2
ANA - 31
PIT - 11
EDM - 10
DET - 27
ARI - 25
OTT - 29
NJD - 7
FLA - 21
PHI - 9
VAN - 30
CHI - 28
STL - 23
LAK - 17

The top 4 teams in xG+/- don't crack the top 10 in pts%
3 teams in the top 10 pts% rank in the 20s in xG+/-

I can go on but it's an easy eye test to look at that list and realize there is not a good correlation between the two rankings. But let's not say "sample size" and instead take a look at last season...

NSH - 15
WPG - 7
TBL - 8
BOS - 2
VGS - 16
WAS - 23
TOR - 12
ANA - 21

...oh forget it...this is boring. Clearly, again, the rankings jump all over. The only thing I learned is that Barry Trotz must be as bad as Housley because his fancy stats say so. Again xG+/- is basically a summary of how well a team both generates and defends against expected goals. It encompasses shots for and against, attempts for each, and high danger chances...all the stats you threw out on the previous page.
 

Sabre the Win

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His team is ready to compete. That is on Housley not the players. Housley gets credit for having his team show up every night.

Lets not downplay the fact that in sports the coach's job is to have his team prepared. They are in every game they play. 100% that is Housley. If you are a Housley hater you can spin it any way you want but 99% of the time of a team doesn't like a coach they don't play for him and there is always in house fighting.

This year the team is prepared and competing.
"We were not ready" has been echoed already this season by a couple players before the 10 game win streak so that means Housley wasnt doing his job?
 

sabrebuild

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2018-19 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com
NHL Team Stats - Corsica Hockey

Go to the top link and click on pts% for a 1-31 rank of teams, go to the next link and click on xG+/- so it shows best to worst, and compare the two lists.

1st - only 11 of the top teams in pts% are in the top 16 of xG+/-.
2nd - you obfuscate by generalizing when you simply say "x number of teams in one column are also in the other column". There is a huge variation of where teams rank between the two lists. I'll make it easy for everyone else by listing each team by their pts% rank, then list their xG+/- rank...

TBL - 5
TOR - 15
BUF - 20
COL - 18
NSH- 13
WAS - 26
BOS - 12
CBJ - 14
WPG - 22
CAL - 8
MIN - 4
CAR - 1
NYI - 19
SJS - 3
DAL - 16
MON - 6
NYR - 24
VGS - 2
ANA - 31
PIT - 11
EDM - 10
DET - 27
ARI - 25
OTT - 29
NJD - 7
FLA - 21
PHI - 9
VAN - 30
CHI - 28
STL - 23
LAK - 17

The top 4 teams in xG+/- don't crack the top 10 in pts%
3 teams in the top 10 pts% rank in the 20s in xG+/-

I can go on but it's an easy eye test to look at that list and realize there is not a good correlation between the two rankings. But let's not say "sample size" and instead take a look at last season...

NSH - 15
WPG - 7
TBL - 8
BOS - 2
VGS - 16
WAS - 23
TOR - 12
ANA - 21

...oh forget it...this is boring. Clearly, again, the rankings jump all over. The only thing I learned is that Barry Trotz must be as bad as Housley because his fancy stats say so. Again xG+/- is basically a summary of how well a team both generates and defends against expected goals. It encompasses shots for and against, attempts for each, and high danger chances...all the stats you threw out on the previous page.

I suspect Trotz is better because he has been a successful professional head coach for longer than Housley has been retired.

This set of argumentation is so flawed, that it’s hard to believe. One stat amongst dozens is not perfectly clear and silver bullet enough for my quick review, therefore your wrong to use any source other than, not ahhh
 

Sabresfansince1980

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I suspect Trotz is better because he has been a successful professional head coach for longer than Housley has been retired.

This set of argumentation is so flawed, that it’s hard to believe. One stat amongst dozens is not perfectly clear and silver bullet enough for my quick review, therefore your wrong to use any source other than, not ahhh

Trotz IS a better coach, and that's the point (that you apparently missed) - advanced stats don't give an accurate picture of how good a coach is.

xG+/- is not just one stat out of dozens. Would you rather measure SOG or quality chances that should result in goals for or against? If you say quality chances (which you should) then would you rather measure those in just "for", just "against", or see how each team performs in both categories and see a differential, the same way goals for and against differential is used on about every NHL standings link you can find?

I'd think we all would want to see a list of the last category. It's way more informational than most other advanced stats, but IMO, it is still clearly flawed when there is such a variation when compared to pts or pts%. I don't even know what the last comment is about...
 

CatsforReinhart

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"We were not ready" has been echoed already this season by a couple players before the 10 game win streak so that means Housley wasnt doing his job?
Please provide me that footage. Quite frankly I don't believe you.

Also IF they are not prepared as a team to play(Not individual players) that is on the coach
 

sabrebuild

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Trotz IS a better coach, and that's the point (that you apparently missed) - advanced stats don't give an accurate picture of how good a coach is.

xG+/- is not just one stat out of dozens. Would you rather measure SOG or quality chances that should result in goals for or against? If you say quality chances (which you should) then would you rather measure those in just "for", just "against", or see how each team performs in both categories and see a differential, the same way goals for and against differential is used on about every NHL standings link you can find?

I'd think we all would want to see a list of the last category. It's way more informational than most other advanced stats, but IMO, it is still clearly flawed when there is such a variation when compared to pts or pts%. I don't even know what the last comment is about...

Old nippy here, having just checked this, your missing the point. I don’t want to look at any one advanced stat or traditional stat to prove anything. It’s pretty clear to anyone reasonable, that there are no perfect evaluation tools or one easy way to tell you who is the best anything in hockey.

High danger chances, regular shot totals, Corsi, Fenwick, eye test, pdo, percentage of goals after passing across the Royal Road, none of that individually tells you dick, look at Carolina a shot creating machine. Is Toronto a monster offensive team that is playing with the lead a lot or a less powerful team with a high shooting percentage?

My point is I think your making a leap to argue so much that Struck is basing the majority of his opinion on xg +-. All of these things are just small pieces of the puzzle, none are individually definitive.

It’s just a portion of his endless comments on the topic of Phil Housley.
 

Sabresfansince1980

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Old nippy here, having just checked this, your missing the point. I don’t want to look at any one advanced stat or traditional stat to prove anything. It’s pretty clear to anyone reasonable, that there are no perfect evaluation tools or one easy way to tell you who is the best anything in hockey.

High danger chances, regular shot totals, Corsi, Fenwick, eye test, pdo, percentage of goals after passing across the Royal Road, none of that individually tells you dick, look at Carolina a shot creating machine. Is Toronto a monster offensive team that is playing with the lead a lot or a less powerful team with a high shooting percentage?

My point is I think your making a leap to argue so much that Struck is basing the majority of his opinion on xg +-. All of these things are just small pieces of the puzzle, none are individually definitive.

It’s just a portion of his endless comments on the topic of Phil Housley.

First two paragraphs are right on with how I think, but you have still chosen to argue the way I made my point to another poster. It's old.

I know very well his opinion isn't all about xG+/-. He never even brought it up!! I did. I did so because you can say that the other stats he did bring up all go toward trying to measure which teams are better at generating or defending quality scoring chances. xG+/- does that. If I were to take all the other stats for shots, attempts, high danger, etc...I would find the same type of variance when comparing teams' pts%. This variance shows you can't use them to measure team success, let alone how good a coach is when you consider the gap between coaching talent and team results.
 

26CornerBlitz

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12-5: Phil Housley with Howard and Jeremy on WGR (15:30)

#Sabres head coach Phil Housley joins Jeremy and Sal next for his weekly visit on WGR! Tune in:

Housley - it's good to get some rest, get re-booted, and get some energy as we prepare for the Flyers on Saturday. #Sabres

Housley - I was really pleased with the guys' effort last night, especially coming from Nashville and losing an hour. Just how we started the game and played through and into overtime. I couldn't be more pleased with the effort. #Sabres

Housley - I liked the way we played on the road in some tough buildings against some tough teams. Then to come back home on a short night, they did a great job in front of an energized building. #Sabres

Housley - We've been possessing the puck in overtime. When on the attack, our shot selection is really important. We did an excellent job with that last night. For the most part, we've done excellent at reading the play and knowing when to attack. #Sabres

Housley on Jack Eichel - He's contributed in so many other ways outside of scoring. He wants to score, and I think it was great for him and his confidence moving forward that he scored last night. (1/2) #Sabres

Housley - It can get frustrating for a player who hasn't scored in a while, but he's sticking with the gameplan and playing really well for us. (2/2) #Sabres

Housley - I think the power play has been good this season, except for the last four games. Our special teams was a difference because we weren't winning those battles. We're going to take a look at things tomorrow and in the days leading up to the Flyers on Saturday. #Sabres

Housley - We have to have a better shot mentality on the power play, and we're going to make some changes. #Sabres

Housley on Lawrence Pilut - I think he played a good first game in Florida. Made some mistakes as he got adjusted, but he's played really well over the past two games. He's making the proper adjustments, he plays with confidence, and you can see how he attacks the game. #Sabres

Housley - I think he's only going to get better, and it's great to see his development moving forward. #Sabres

Housley - I believe Casey Nelson is out on a day-to-day basis right now. Jake McCabe is also day-to-day. We'll sit down and re-evaluate everything with the injured players. #Sabres
 
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