Trade: [PHI/DET] Gregory Soto and Kody Clemens for Nick Maton, Matt Vierling, and Donny Sands

[MMC]

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[MMC]

 

[GKJ]

I don’t know about this one for the Phillies.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

I don't know about this one for the Tigers. Feels like Soto should have returned one bluechip prospect instead of several maybe's.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Dude, not Vierling! He was the lucky charm last year!

 

[shadow1]

I can't say I'm a fan of the trade as a Tigers fan.

Maton and Vierling were popular utility guys with the Phillies (who both saw significant time in AAA last year), but Scott Harris obviously thinks they can be full time starters.

I'm not so sure considering they'll both be 26 when the season starts. I know I'm not the President of Baseball Operations like Harris is, but I do have a great deal of experience looking at bad Tigers line-ups and I don't like what I see.

I don't know about this one for the Tigers. Feels like Soto should have returned one bluechip prospect instead of several maybe's.

I have the same feeling. Earlier this off-season was saw Seattle trade Erik Swanson, age 29 with a shorter track record than Soto, for Teoscar Hernandez.

Not saying Detroit should've made that trade, just mentioning it because it seemed to indicate a strong trade market for relievers this off-season.

 

[Blitzkrug]

I don't know about this one for the Tigers. Feels like Soto should have returned one bluechip prospect instead of several maybe's.

Soto's metrics/analytics aren't very good. Crazy high bb/9 for a reliever, below average WHIP. It indicates he might be getting lucky more than he is good and teams didn't fall for it at the deadline when they demanded a haul.

Absolutely nasty stuff but zero control. You can get away with it when you throw sinkers down the middle at just under 100 MPH but most other guys wouldn't.

 

[Terry Yake]

donny sands is a great name

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Soto was kind of bad last season. Don't love the deal for Philly.

 

[Halladay]

I think the phillies are going to try to do with Soto with they did with Alvarado. Thinking they can get some of his wildness down.

 

[BSHH]

Soto's metrics/analytics aren't very good. Crazy high bb/9 for a reliever, below average WHIP. It indicates he might be getting lucky more than he is good and teams didn't fall for it at the deadline when they demanded a haul.

Absolutely nasty stuff but zero control. You can get away with it when you throw sinkers down the middle at just under 100 MPH but most other guys wouldn't.

Soto certainly has his weaknesses, but he has been effective for years. He is controllable for three years. Therefore I do not understand at all why the Tigers make this trade now, just to get three players who will likely become second-tier regulars at best. The Tigers should be trading for potential upside instead of depth.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[shadow1]

Tigers trade Gregory Soto, Kody Clemens to Phillies for three high-upside players

The Tigers got back three players entering their age-26 seasons, including super utility man Nick Maton and right-handed hitting OF Matt Vierling.

www.detroitnews.com

“I think this trade is a variant of one of those calculated risks I’ve talked about,” Harris said after finalizing the deal Saturday, “You’re never entirely confident that young players are going to hit in the big leagues. But you are a little more confident when you see flashes of their performances in the big leagues already.

“It makes you feel better when you are getting players who have already done it at a high level. It increases your confidence that they will be able to help us in 2023 and beyond.”

Harris did say he was working to add a left-handed reliever to the mix. With Soto gone, Tyler Alexander is the lone lefty reliever on the roster.

"We are hard at work on that," he said. "It may not be a major league deal (an indication the Tigers aren't re-bidding on Chafin), but someone we're excited about. We also have some pitchers in the minor leagues who are on the verge of taking a step forward."

When you look at Harris's three year tenure with San Fransisco, the biggest free agent hitter deal he ever signed was a 1-year, $6M deal. This was done twice; once with Wilmer Flores (2020) and more recently with Joc Pederson (2022). It would not surprise me if Chris Illitch hired Harris specifically for these moneyball type antics in order to cut payroll.

To give Harris credit, he was successful with turning several players into (at least part time) MLB players with the Giants: Thairo Estrada, Luis Gonzalez, Darin Ruf, and Lamonte Wade Jr.

But the Tigers need more than just Maton and Vierling; their offense last year was one of the worst MLB offenses in recent memory. Jonathan Schoop and his .239 OBP (note: OBP, not BA) is still an every day starter.

Detroit was linked to Willson Contreras, who signed what I consider to be a bargain of a contract (5yrs, $87.5M), but a deal like was still clearly too rich for the Tigers' blood. It's insanely disappointing how bad this organization has become; the only team with fewer wins over the last 6 seasons is Baltimore, and they will obviously leapfrog Detroit's win total shortly.