Phenoms-are they becoming commonplace?

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Dream Big, Dec 23, 2005.

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  1. Dream Big

    Dream Big Registered User

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    Are they becoming more common? Or have they always been around?
    Are the changes in training, coaching, powerskating excellerating and improving the product? hockey players that is. Hockey Canada even has a DVD set teaching the fundamentals and how to improve skills.
    In the olden days if you could skate ie: Orr - no one could touch you but now it seems there are alot of good skaters. Those that had private backyard rinnks or ready access to winter ice outdoors benefited with more ice time.
    There is talk of generational players and Crosby is named. But Ovechkin, maybe Malkin, Staal, Spezza don't look too shabby.
    Then there is Kessel, Toews, Esposito Tavares. You hear all these are "special" talents. But are they? Perhaps they are now the norm. It seems each year has at least one and maybe two.
     
  2. Chrisd

    Chrisd Registered User

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    well

    it's just a new generation of talent coming in.

    Guys like Hull, mario, yzerman, chelios, mogilny and of course others are near the end.... and they were once these stud players.

    Now a new crop comes along. It's just the cycle of the NHL.
     
  3. AvengerK

    AvengerK Registered User

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    Either that or because the internet is awesome at boosting the hype.
     
  4. Dream Big

    Dream Big Registered User

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    That's a good point too. Do you think the internet is used to pump the tires of some players more than others? Like someone has a vested interest?
    Some tire pumping is no doubt done by fans too. I have my favourites.
     
  5. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    The hype is getting worse, much worse.

    But then again, I like a lot of the unhyped rookie non-phenoms:
    Marcel Goc, Jay McClement, Mikko Koivu, Rostislav Olesz, and especially Johan Franzen and Jussi Jokinen.
     
  6. J17 Vs Proclamation

    J17 Vs Proclamation Registered User

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    Well, if you look at recent drafts to lets say, the drafts in the early to mid 90's, the drafts seem alot better. Perhaps there are just more talents than ever before. I mean you have new countries beginning to create great young players eg Vanek. If you look at the last 5 years of the draft, the top end talent is insanely good.

    2000 - Heatly, Gaborik
    2001 - Kovalchuk, Spezza, and guys like hemsky
    2002 - Rick Nash, Kari Lehtonen and Joni Pitkanen
    2003 - Eric Staal, Nathan Horton
    2004 - AO, Malkin
    2005 - Crosby

    Non of the really hyped players have struggled to make an impact.
     
  7. MS

    MS 1%er

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    It's always been like this. Hype is up because of the internet, but there have always been 15-16 y/o 'phenoms' who've caught the interest of the scouting community.

    The top guys for the 1997 draft, for ie, were already receiving national press in 1994-95 as future franchise players. Cleary, Thornton, Dome.

    Anyone else remember the Hockey News article about 8-10 years ago hyping 14 y/o Justin Maiser as 'the American Gretzky'?

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=63060
     
  8. willie

    willie Registered User

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    He's gonna have to show some more consistency before he gets lumped with names like Keith Gretzky. :sarcasm:
     
  9. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    In the mid 90s we had phenoms like Dan Cleary, Viktor Kozlov, Pat Falloon, Jason Bonsignore, Aki Berg, Alexandre Daigle, Dan Tkaczuk, Jason Ward, Alexandre Volchkov and Andrei Zyuzin in the NHL or on the draft radars. I'd be very surprised if all of Kessel, Toews, Esposito and Tavares ended up as above average NHLers when all is said and done.
     
  10. Beatnik

    Beatnik Registered User

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    The Sedins, Thornton, Marleau and Lecavalier were phenomenon too

    Berg, Ward, Volchov, Tkaczuk and Ziuzin were never really hyped as phenomenon IIRC.

    IF we talked only about HF there is'nt more hype than there was in the late 90's. Guys like the Sedins, Torres, Brendl and Lundmark were hyped a lot too. Spezza and Kovalchuk were hyped way before their draft like Tavares and Esposito are now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2005
  11. UvBnDatsyuked

    UvBnDatsyuked Registered User

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    Think it has anything to do with the mom's and dad's taking such a role in their kids development?

    I worked at the rink when I was in high school (15 years ago) and there would be maybe 1 to 2 kids (aged 5-17) at the most who were hockey players there working on their skating. Many times there were none.

    Now I go to the rink and there are at least 8 kids at every public session and a few are taking private lessons from instructors or getting advice from their parents.

    Never remembered seeing that kind of insanity, I mean dedication
     
  12. NYR469

    NYR469 Registered User

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    2 reasons behind there seeming to be 'more' phenoms

    1)people are way too quick to label someone a phenom and shamelessly throw the term 'next one' on the top prospect of every draft as if there is a 'gretzky' in every draft. its pretty laughable when every year people claim that so and so is the type of player that comes along once every 20 years. i guess the other 19 guys in that 20 year span that the same thing was said about doesn't count...kids get unfairly overhyped...which leads me into #2

    2)thanks to the internet, center ice, etc the amount of immediate coverage we get about these kids at young ages is infinitely more than it was years ago. 20 years ago we wouldn't know about a kid growing up in russia, but now thanks to the internet, streaming video, etc we can follow these kids from our own homes and now know more about the ovechkins and malkins much sooner than we could have in the past. and of course knowing about them and being able to talk about them for 2 years before they are drafted and discuss every game they play in is what leads to the overhyping and unfair labels.
     
  13. Dream Big

    Dream Big Registered User

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    NYR has brought up a good point in #1.
    I remember a kid playing hockey who was growing facial hair at 12 or 13, had physically matured and had a deep voice. He was so much stronger than the rest of the boys. He dominated and they were a bit intimidated. Don't know what happened to him. But everyone knew him then and still remember and talk about him.
     
  14. knight44

    knight44 Registered User

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    I dont think Phenoms are to common, but they are coming around alot. Like latley almost every draft has one.

    On another note what about that 9 year old kid in canada that has 63 goals in 16 games, 300 goals last season, 250 the year before. Do you guys this kid will be the next great Phenom?
     
  15. BigE

    BigE Registered User

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    How is that any different from Thornton and Marleau, Lecavalier and Gagne, or going back further Lindros and Forsberg?

    Every year there is a kid in the first round that is going to be the next somebody or other. It's called hype, and the only reason why people feel it is increasing is because NO ONE has lived up to their's yet.

    Lindros - The Next One
    Lecavalier - The Next Lemieux
    AO - Better than Forsberg
    Crosby - The Next One
    Kessel - Better than Lafontaine

    etc.
     
  16. KH1

    KH1 Registered User

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    Phenoms aren't becoming commonplace, it just seems that way because you are on a prospect website where posters won't hesitate to remind you that a great prospect like Phil Kessel is actually the next Sidney Crosby who is the next Wayne Gretzky.

    It's not hard to get confused when every top 5 pick is referred to as a "phenom."
     
  17. LoonieToon

    LoonieToon Registered User

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    Ding ding ding - we have a winner.
     
  18. Panopticon

    Panopticon Registered User

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    I didn't even know Daigle was hyped until I played NHL 2002...
     
  19. orcatown

    orcatown Registered User

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    Remembewr when Rico Fata at 15 was declared a can't miss phenom. One problem seems to be that we are labelling players phenoms at too young an age.
     
  20. espo*

    espo* Guest

    In reality they're not,but press covergae is at a level it's never been before so more guys are getting their horn tooted,to be expected.
     
  21. hockeylife

    hockeylife Registered User

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    Deveraux Heshmatpuor anyone?
     
  22. albertGQ

    albertGQ Registered User

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    Samsonov was hyped for a long time before his draft year as well.
     
  23. cxreg

    cxreg Registered User

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    Bouwmeester was more hyped than Pitkanen and he's struggled a lot. And don't forget MA Fleury who's been pretty much crap.
     
  24. Rebecca

    Rebecca Registered User

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    :sarcasm:
     

  25. +1
     
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