Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc.

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Rebels57

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Why? They let Twar and Bunny play games due to SSS. Or does that only apply to less talented players?

And as stated, it could be Rubstov too. Or Pimp.

The ENTIRE point is that it doesn't have to be 1 guy for the whole duration. You can rotate guys in and out for experience and rewards....filling the gap until Patrick is ready or until someone shows the sustained level of play.

Are you debating with a brick wall again?
 
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MacDonald4MVP

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May 7, 2016
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Once Fletcher makes the first swap of players between the Flyers & Phantoms, we can start calling him Uncle Flow.
Let's hope Stewart is the first one to go and if they are at the vet limit in LV just get rid of Berube and have Sandstrom take over.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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HockeyBuzz.com - Bill Meltzer - Flyers Make 7 Roster Cuts: Impact and Fletcher Commentary
I’m not as concerned about Joel in the short-term as much as in the long term. He’s going to be a really good player in this league for a long time. What that means for a week from Friday, we’ll see. We have another game to play. We’ll get together with the coaches and we’ll talk about what the lineup will look like for that game against Chicago. He’s a real smart player. For a 19-year-old player, I think he’s ahead of the curve with a respect to awareness of the game away from the puck, his defensive understanding of the game. He’s obviously a highly competitive kid. Very intelligent kid. But it’s a tough league for a 19-year old player. What we do with Joel will be what’s right for the team, but also what’s right for him in the long run.
 

deadhead

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Frost HIMSELF 1 YEAR AGO ON June 2018: The Flyers’ first-round pick from 2017 knows that the biggest knock against him is his size and even on the team’s development camp roster he’s listed at 172 pounds. These days, he says, it’s more like 184

Morgan Frost trying to lift and eat his way to NHL weight

Farabee HIMSELF on Aug 12: “I’m pretty close to 180 pounds now,” Farabee said. “I think I’m in a pretty good spot weight-wise that I want to be at, so I feel really good, a lot stronger on the ice.

Joel Farabee hit his weight goal, his next one is to make the NHL

But hey, if you want to use outdated info, go ahead.

I simply used comparable information, that is, most height weight data is dated, even the Flyer training camp numbers are often dated.
So it's likely that comparable players have bulked up as much as Frost and Farabee.

TK was listed at 5'10 183 on the camp roster, my bet is he's more like 190.
Frost 6'0 180
Farabee 6'0 171
Couts 6'3 202 (probably 15-20 lbs lighter than reality)
JVR 6'3 212 (anyone believe that weight?)

My general rule of thumb is that a full frame player can add about 25-30 lbs between 18-21 years old as they fill out, generally about 10 lbs a year.
Smaller players tend to hit a limit set by their frame, it's unlikely Frost will exceed 185 lbs until well into his career (mid-20s).
Guys like TK, Friedman and JOB can carry more weight at the same height as Frost b/c they're build more solid (fireplug bodies).
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
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Why? They let Twar and Bunny play games due to SSS. Or does that only apply to less talented players?

And as stated, it could be Rubstov too. Or Pimp.

The ENTIRE point is that it doesn't have to be 1 guy for the whole duration. You can rotate guys in and out for experience and rewards....filling the gap until Patrick is ready or until someone shows the sustained level of play.
For one, Twarynski & Bunnaman already have a full AHL season under their belts.

For two, they are older, stronger & more physically mature.

For three, Twar & Bunnaman are filling bottom of the lineup, limited minute roles, which is their future. They don’t want the kids who project as top 6 guys getting limited minutes & being role players when they could be getting big minutes & developing their offensive games in the AHL.

For four, Vigneault said it on the last Behind the Glass: he wants prospects like Farabee to gain some confidence in their offense not lose confidence.

For five, you don’t want to be yanking the top prospects in & out of the lineup, & shuffling them up & down leagues. It’s unsettling. Let the youngsters have a degree of comfort & consistency so they can focus on their play.

For six, Rubtsov wasn’t very good toward the end of his preseason tenure, got destroyed on faceoffs, & only has 20 AHL games to his credit. There are still things he needs to work on, which is what the AHL is for. It’s not worth sacrificing his development because he could have a good future.
 

hatcher

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For one, Twarynski & Bunnaman already have a full AHL season under their belts.

For two, they are older, stronger & more physically mature.

For three, Twar & Bunnaman are filling bottom of the lineup, limited minute roles, which is their future. They don’t want the kids who project as top 6 guys getting limited minutes & being role players when they could be getting big minutes & developing their offensive games in the AHL.

For four, Vigneault said it on the last Behind the Glass: he wants prospects like Farabee to gain some confidence in their offense not lose confidence.

For five, you don’t want to be yanking the top prospects in & out of the lineup, & shuffling them up & down leagues. It’s unsettling. Let the youngsters have a degree of comfort & consistency so they can focus on their play.

For six, Rubtsov wasn’t very good toward the end of his preseason tenure, got destroyed on faceoffs, & only has 20 AHL games to his credit. There are still things he needs to work on, which is what the AHL is for. It’s not worth sacrificing his development because he could have a good future.
Thats lots of explaining pal which you shouldnt have to do. Sorry buddy lol.
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
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For one, Twarynski & Bunnaman already have a full AHL season under their belts.

For two, they are older, stronger & more physically mature.

For three, Twar & Bunnaman are filling bottom of the lineup, limited minute roles, which is their future. They don’t want the kids who project as top 6 guys getting limited minutes & being role players when they could be getting big minutes & developing their offensive games in the AHL.

For four, Vigneault said it on the last Behind the Glass: he wants prospects like Farabee to gain some confidence in their offense not lose confidence.

For five, you don’t want to be yanking the top prospects in & out of the lineup, & shuffling them up & down leagues. It’s unsettling. Let the youngsters have a degree of comfort & consistency so they can focus on their play.

For six, Rubtsov wasn’t very good toward the end of his preseason tenure, got destroyed on faceoffs, & only has 20 AHL games to his credit. There are still things he needs to work on, which is what the AHL is for. It’s not worth sacrificing his development because he could have a good future.
One: I didn't know playing in the AHL was prerequisite to playing in the NHL

Two: Old, Stronger, more mature does not mean better

Three: No one says they have to get limited minutes. They can play 14+ minutes a night just like Suzuki or Texier are.

Four: Does Farabee look like he has lost confidence? Myers? Frost...from those who watched the same. Probably has lost confidence is AHL wingers who can't convert chances he is creating.

Five: If you communicate with kids, getting a recall for a few games is a reward. If they know that if they don't perform, they go back down, so be it. You want to look at the doom and gloom...what if they come up and DO produce?

Six: Raffl is getting destroyed on faceoffs. And again, is AHL a prerequisite?

Here is what we DO know...Twar, Bunny are getting worked over despite that extra year, bigger, stronger, older bodies. Maybe it has to do with talent too. Maybe. I have said before they earned their "reward" of making the team and playing the 1st 2 games of the season. They fared ok for kept them for 3 more games. And now they have "earned" a demotion.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
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Thats lots of explaining pal which you shouldnt have to do. Sorry buddy lol.
Lol. And inevitably in a few days someone like Adtar will ask me how I think keeping Frost & Farabee down is possibly justifiable & claim I haven’t given any reasons. Happens all the time.
 

hatcher

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Lol. And inevitably in a few days someone like Adtar will ask me how I think keeping Frost & Farabee down is possibly justifiable & claim I haven’t given any reasons. Happens all the time.
HAHAHAHAHA I read that alot on here. He doesn't think I'm a flyers fan because I think some more of the old core need to go. We have no game breaking prospects and no chance at the cup. Doomed for awhile if this keeps up. I hope I'm wrong.
 

Rebels57

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Once Fletcher makes the first swap of players between the Flyers & Phantoms, we can start calling him Uncle Flow.

Yep. 5 games into the season we have seen 3 roster moves.

  • Welinski actived off IR, waived and sent to Phantoms.
  • Stewart signed and in for Bunnaman for Game 4.
  • Bunnaman back in for Stewart for Game 5.
 
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Striiker

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One: I didn't know playing in the AHL was prerequisite to playing in the NHL

Two: Old, Stronger, more mature does not mean better

Three: No one says they have to get limited minutes. They can play 14+ minutes a night just like Suzuki or Texier are.

Four: Does Farabee look like he has lost confidence? Myers? Frost...from those who watched the same. Probably has lost confidence is AHL wingers who can't convert chances he is creating.

Five: If you communicate with kids, getting a recall for a few games is a reward. If they know that if they don't perform, they go back down, so be it. You want to look at the doom and gloom...what if they come up and DO produce?

Six: Raffl is getting destroyed on faceoffs. And again, is AHL a prerequisite?

Here is what we DO know...Twar, Bunny are getting worked over despite that extra year, bigger, stronger, older bodies. Maybe it has to do with talent too. Maybe. I have said before they earned their "reward" of making the team and playing the 1st 2 games of the season. They fared ok for kept them for 3 more games. And now they have "earned" a demotion.
I can't see what's happening (thankfully) but, based on seeing one side of these recent posts, am I correct in summing it ups as:

Bashed: Ghost, Farabee, Frost

Defended: Twar, Stewart, Hagg
 

Tripod

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I can't see what's happening (thankfully) but, based on seeing one side of these recent posts, am I correct in summing it ups as:

Bashed: Ghost, Farabee, Frost

Defended: Twar, Stewart, Hagg
Actually no. Just that Frost/Farabee/Myers are not ready.

Oh, either is Rubstov.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
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Yep. 5 games into the season we have seen 3 roster moves.

  • Welinski actived off IR, waived and sent to Phantoms.
  • Stewart signed and in for Bunnaman for Game 4.
  • Bunnaman back in for Stewart for Game 5.
But in fairness, you can see that due to travel, doing something after game 2 and game 5 were really the only chances to do so if you add anyone else. And after game 2, we were 2-0 and played well. So in my mind, I can at least understand keeping things for the road trip.

But now we are back home and can change things again...and should. Twar and Bunny have earned demotions.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
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One: I didn't know playing in the AHL was prerequisite to playing in the NHL

Two: Old, Stronger, more mature does not mean better

Three: No one says they have to get limited minutes. They can play 14+ minutes a night just like Suzuki or Texier are.

Four: Does Farabee look like he has lost confidence? Myers? Frost...from those who watched the same. Probably has lost confidence is AHL wingers who can't convert chances he is creating.

Five: If you communicate with kids, getting a recall for a few games is a reward. If they know that if they don't perform, they go back down, so be it. You want to look at the doom and gloom...what if they come up and DO produce?

Six: Raffl is getting destroyed on faceoffs. And again, is AHL a prerequisite?

Here is what we DO know...Twar, Bunny are getting worked over despite that extra year, bigger, stronger, older bodies. Maybe it has to do with talent too. Maybe. I have said before they earned their "reward" of making the team and playing the 1st 2 games of the season. They fared ok for kept them for 3 more games. And now they have "earned" a demotion.

Playing in the AHL isn’t a prerequisite. But to jump straight into the NHL at 19 or 20 with zero pro experience you have to be really damn good. Frost & Farabee aren’t that elite level of prospect. Classic case of a fanbase overrating their young players. Farabee was going to have to do more than 0 points in 4 preseason games to convince the Flyers’ brass to take the risk of throwing him straight into the lineup.

AV explicitly stated he thought Farabee’s offensive confidence was a bit down due to not producing & he’d rather he gain it in an AHL stint than risk a lack of NHL points affecting him.

And yeah, Raffl’s struggling on draws, but he’s a vet & his game is what it is. Rubtsov is still a wad of fresh clay that can be molded into something that will help the team more down the road.

There’s simply a lot of things we disagree on. Mainly, I don’t think Frost, Farabee, & Rubtsov are nearly as good at the NHL level at the moment as you do. But, they have a lot of potential. So I’d rather give them the opportunity to work on their games in the AHL because I think it will have a much bigger payoff long term. And I think the long term with these kids is much more important than the first month or two of this season, where they wouldn’t be playing big minutes or major roles, anyway.
 

Magua

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Playing in the AHL isn’t a prerequisite. But to jump straight into the NHL at 19 or 20 with zero pro experience you have to be really damn good. Frost & Farabee aren’t that elite level of prospect. Classic case of a fanbase overrating their young players. Farabee was going to have to do more than 0 points in 4 preseason games to convince the Flyers’ brass to take the risk of throwing him straight into the lineup.

AV explicitly stated he thought Farabee’s offensive confidence was a bit down due to not producing & he’d rather he gain it in an AHL stint than risk a lack of NHL points affecting him.

And yeah, Raffl’s struggling on draws, but he’s a vet & his game is what it is. Rubtsov is still a wad of fresh clay that can be molded into something that will help the team more down the road.

There’s simply a lot of things we disagree on. Mainly, I don’t think Frost, Farabee, & Rubtsov are nearly as good at the NHL level at the moment as you do. But, they have a lot of potential. So I’d rather give them the opportunity to work on their games in the AHL because I think it will have a much bigger payoff long term. And I think the long term with these kids is much more important than the first month or two of this season, where they wouldn’t be playing big minutes or major roles, anyway.

Were you not banging the “Farabee is NHL ready” drum all summer and all preseason? Probably louder than anyone else.

His 0 points this preseason has absolutely no predictive value when he was creating chances at higher rates than any other player. Eventually, posts turn into goals. I feel like you were vindicated in your belief in him, if anything. But now you’re justifying his not being NHL ready.
 

Tripod

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And Frost should be in the ECHL, right?
No mention of that today. However, I didn't see him respond to Appleyards info but I may have missed it.

Frost has:

73.68 SCF%: Leads the team amongst fwds
87.50 HDCF%: 2nd on team amongst fwds

If Carey had shot "normally" over the first few games Frost would easily have 2-3 assists, as he put some goals on a platter for him.
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
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Playing in the AHL isn’t a prerequisite. But to jump straight into the NHL at 19 or 20 with zero pro experience you have to be really damn good. Frost & Farabee aren’t that elite level of prospect. Classic case of a fanbase overrating their young players. Farabee was going to have to do more than 0 points in 4 preseason games to convince the Flyers’ brass to take the risk of throwing him straight into the lineup.

AV explicitly stated he thought Farabee’s offensive confidence was a bit down due to not producing & he’d rather he gain it in an AHL stint than risk a lack of NHL points affecting him.

And yeah, Raffl’s struggling on draws, but he’s a vet & his game is what it is. Rubtsov is still a wad of fresh clay that can be molded into something that will help the team more down the road.

There’s simply a lot of things we disagree on. Mainly, I don’t think Frost, Farabee, & Rubtsov are nearly as good at the NHL level at the moment as you do. But, they have a lot of potential. So I’d rather give them the opportunity to work on their games in the AHL because I think it will have a much bigger payoff long term. And I think the long term with these kids is much more important than the first month or two of this season, where they wouldn’t be playing big minutes or major roles, anyway.
Again...Frost/Farabee or Rubstov just have to be better than Twar and Bunny and it improves the team. And again, it doesn't have to be a long term call up. It can be a 2-3 game set of games. Hell, it could be Pimp too.

I was vocal that they EARNED a small term reward. And now they have earned the demotion. Keeping them up rewards them for playing poorly. That's not right either.

There is a block of 2 games...Sat and Monday. Reward someone else(actually 2) with the call-up and see how they perform before deciding who to bring to Chicago on the 1 game road trip. And hell, you talk to Twar and Bunny and tell them to work their ass off this coming weekend games and they could be rewarded again. We are not closing the door on them all season.

oh...and I hope you saw the post from Appleyard that I re-posted stating how Frost is playing DESPITE his wingers not converting his chances.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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No mention of that today. However, I didn't see him respond to Appleyards info but I may have missed it.
Which is what I said about Frost multiple times, just without the numbers. :thumbu:

Yeah, Frost has been having a similar run in the AHL as Giroux has in the NHL.

Quality of play and point totals don’t match up.

Yep, especially since Frost hasn’t even been bad to begin with.

Like I said, he’s just like Giroux, doing a great job to set up teammates, but they’re just not finishing. Farabee has had the scoring success, but Frost has been very good too.

Personally, Im very pleased with what I’ve seen from all three of our top prospects in the AHL.

I want no part of this but I'll just point out that anyone who has watched Frost will agree that Frost has set up multiple people for easy goals and they've whiffed.

He should easily have multiple points right now. It's exactly like Giroux somehow only having one point but deserving many, except on a smaller scale.
 
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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Were you not banging the “Farabee is NHL ready” drum all summer and all preseason? Probably louder than anyone else.

His 0 points this preseason has absolutely no predictive value when he was creating chances at higher rates than any other player. Eventually, posts turn into goals. I feel like you were vindicated in your belief in him, if anything. But now you’re justifying his not being NHL ready.
No, I was not “banging the drum” about Farabee being for sure NHL ready. That’s an exaggeration. I voted for him as the #1 prospect, said he was more NHL ready than Frost, & that I thought he had a good chance to make the team — better than Frost. I did predict he’d make it. Then watching him in preseason I explicitly said he wasn’t quite as ready as I was hoping & I was a bit disappointed, but that he was close.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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Again...Frost/Farabee or Rubstov just have to be better than Twar and Bunny and it improves the team. And again, it doesn't have to be a long term call up. It can be a 2-3 game set of games. Hell, it could be Pimp too.
And IMO that’s a shortsighted view. It’s not all about incremental improvements in the short term, it’s about what’s best for the prospects & team in the long run.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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And IMO that’s a shortsighted view. It’s not all about incremental improvements in the short term, it’s about what’s best for the prospects & team in the long run.
Those 2 things do not have to be mutually exclusive.

Having 2 of Frost, Farabee or Rubstov play for the next 2 games will not impact their future. Then you assess things for the road game.

All you are saying now, is you want to keep at least 2 players on the roster who based on the stats, are getting caved. I am saying I am willing to look at other options for 2 games to see if that can be improved on. TWO GAMES.

oh...and in case you missed it:

Frost has:

73.68 SCF%: Leads the team amongst fwds
87.50 HDCF%: 2nd on team amongst fwds

If Carey had shot "normally" over the first few games Frost would easily have 2-3 assists, as he put some goals on a platter for him.
 
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