Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc.

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Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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#19 would have been overpayment for a goalie like Grubauer, but I liked the idea of moving it for Athanasiou. Of course, I have no idea if Detroit would have been interested.
I took a peak just to see what I actually was saying last year, just to clear things up.

I said I would trade #19 for Grubs if Mgt felt he could be a .920 goalie and a top 10 starter.
I said that I have not watched him near enough to make that determination
I said that I felt his value was around a late 1st....but that Washington would want #19 from us given we are in the same division.
I said that if we had the chance to improve the goaltending, we should not wait and hope on Hart because we had no idea how the transition would be.
I said a deal of #19 for Grubs and #31 could be a win/win for both teams

This year, Grubs had a .917 SV% and finished 15th for goalies playing 30 games. So not far off, but also not to the level I mentioned above. In the end, he would have helped our goaltending this year I believe. Christ just staying healthy would have helped.

But with better goaltending, maybe Hak and Hextall are still here. and if they were, Hart might not have gotten the chance he did under Fletch and Gordon. No way would have Hextall brought up Hart in December. So for that reason alone(Hak firing), I am glad it played out this way.

And remember, doing this deal was part of doing other things. I said I wanted a #3C and a Dman to upgrade on AMac. In the end, Hextall did none of the 3. Also said I wanted to trade Simmonds for a 1st+3rd liner....oh well....lol.

But hey, now this offseason, Fletch wants to add a goalie, add a C and add a Dman. Doing what Hextall should have done last year.
 
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wasup

Registered User
Mar 21, 2018
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I wholeheartedly believe that he should report to Shawinigan. Yes, he'd only be eligible for 1 season, but this would be 1 season where he can play against better competition than the USHL and BCHL (obvs). Then after next season, why not turn pro and play with the Phantoms? Maybe he can even make it in the show, who knows. Shawinigan should have a mid-tier team with quality young prospects next season without Jay. With him, however, the sky is the limit.
This would be a bad idea all the way around . He is a project that needs time to get it together and going CHL is a one year thing then what AHL . Thinking one year in CHL will cure all things and have him pro ready is just silly . Your CHL better obvs arguement than USHL could be said 10 years ago but USA hockey has made huge strides and there is very little difference . And i actually go to watch WHL and USHL games every year .
 

Larry44

#FireTortsNOW
Mar 1, 2002
11,867
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I remember when lightning fans wrote off yanni gourde. Stuck in the ECHL, then ahl and finally got into the nhl. Puts up good numbers too and hasn’t been sent back to the ahl or ECHL. It’s to early to write him off yet.

However, starting to get the idea of hextall and Pryor drafted based on nepotism. Cates, sanheim, and O’Brien have some family connection to hextall/Pryor. I believe there are more prospects with that connection. Just throwing this out there to see what others think.
I guess TB better not send Gourde back down, didn't they give him $4.5 x 5 years or something?

There is NOTHING to the nepotism accusation regarding the draft. I don't even really blame him for hiring Hakstol. He was a top college coach, and the fact that he had some personal experience with his son playing there is extra information to the cause. Hexy got fired largely because he stubbornly refused to fire him when it was clear it wasn't working out. Sanheim, Allison and Kalynuk are all from Manitoba, where Hexy has deep roots. I think someone in his family dated someone in Sanheim's family. If it helped reassure them of his character, so be it - it was a GREAT pick of a very good player - possibly a star in the making. Cates is from Minnesota, where Pryor is from. If you get a hot tip on a sleeper pick out of your circle of friends, why would you NOT consider it? Cates looks like a pretty good pick too.

If your scouts aren't going to mine their networks for data on players under the radar, you might as well fire them and just go by CSB lists and the Hockey News Draft Preview.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
52,624
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Making the pick at all was a bad decision when there were potentially deals out their to help the team, apparently a big deal that Hextall passed on that upset the higher ups. ROR perhaps? The fact that the prospect taken there is trending poorly right now just adds salt into the wound.
Pretty sure the ROR rumors were around Sanheim (surprise, surprise). Would we feel better about losing (maybe) our best defenseman?

I know why people are salty. I just think it’s poor logic. As I said before, if the pick was Miller or Sandin, are we even talking about it? Doubt it.
 

sregdoor

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Jun 22, 2018
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In reference to drafting JOB, I think sometimes when teams have multiple first round picks there may be a tendency to look at the later ones as "house money" and reach a little bit. I think the Flyers did that with Frost and JOB but the best example is the Bruins in 2015. With 3 first round picks (numbers 13, 14, 15) they stretched, reached whatever you want to call it but may have felt that the quantity would guarantee quality. With the extra pick(s) there can be a tendency to go for big risk/big reward. I have no inside information but hope JOB discussed his decision with someone in the Flyers organization. Does the move to BCHL change his signing deadline status even if he does return to the NCAA?
 
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Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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I didn't recall any rumors about specific Flyers from credible sources, just Lebrun saying that Hextall had interest in ROR. Of course Buffalo would have liked to get Sanheim; I'm sure they would have liked to get Dunn from the Blues, too.
 
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Oskar Man

Social Assassin
Nov 30, 2010
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Looking at that ROR return it begs the question, how the flying f*** could Hexy not trump that?

A cap dump, an overpaid depth forward, and an ok prospect. One could argue the 19' 1st was payment for Berglund's 4x4ish contract dump. That would make it Sobotka, Thompson, and a 21' 2nd for ROR

Buzz, your girlfriend. Woof!
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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I didn't recall any rumors about specific Flyers from credible sources, just Lebrun saying that Hextall had interest in ROR. Of course Buffalo would have liked to get Sanheim; I'm sure they would have liked to get Dunn from the Blues, too.

Couldnt get Dunn, Thomas, OR Kyrou
 
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LegionOfDoom91

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Jan 25, 2013
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They likely valued Thompson much more than what he’s shown to this point. Statistically he’s been one of the worst forwards in the league but he does have the former first rounder attached to him with his size & skill. But he just hasn’t been a good hockey player to this point. They probably saw value in Berglund & Sobotka as third/fourth line veteran pieces even though they were overpaid. In reality they’re actually fortunate Berglund walked away from his contract. Then you had the first rounder which will likely be towards the end of the round. They traded that for Montour who’s kind of meh.

Botterill forced himself into a situation where he had to trade ROR & then misevaluated the pieces he was getting which hasn’t offered really any net value in a positive direction to his team at this point.
 

Oskar Man

Social Assassin
Nov 30, 2010
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Just to add to my last post about ROR because I'm pissed off now...

A package of Lehtera (1 year dump), Laughton, Ratcliffe, and 1st smokes the Blues offer. In fact, a deal without Lehtera in it could've possibly enticed Buffalo to retain a little on ROR as his AAV was a little rich for his recent years performance.

At the time I wasn't on the ROR train as I thought he'd cost too much. f*** me this team looks crazy with Coots, ROR, and Patrick down the middle with G, Jake, TK, and Lindblom on the wings and Frost Farabee coming in hot.
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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Maybe the best way to look at it, is all the shoulda, coulda, woulda things that didn't happen last year, led to Hakstol getting fired this year. So that is a plus.

If we added a ROR, or a better goalie, or a good Dman last summer, maybe Hak is still here and Hart is in the AHL still under Hextalls careful watch.

This is the summer of new beginnings!
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Maybe the best way to look at it, is all the shoulda, coulda, woulda things that didn't happen last year, led to Hakstol getting fired this year. So that is a plus.

If we added a ROR, or a better goalie, or a good Dman last summer, maybe Hak is still here and Hart is in the AHL still under Hextalls careful watch.

This is the summer of new beginnings!

You right.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Just to add to my last post about ROR because I'm pissed off now...

A package of Lehtera (1 year dump), Laughton, Ratcliffe, and 1st smokes the Blues offer. In fact, a deal without Lehtera in it could've possibly enticed Buffalo to retain a little on ROR as his AAV was a little rich for his recent years performance.

At the time I wasn't on the ROR train as I thought he'd cost too much. **** me this team looks crazy with Coots, ROR, and Patrick down the middle with G, Jake, TK, and Lindblom on the wings and Frost Farabee coming in hot.

Now this is a homer perspective.

Laughton didn't have as much value as Thompson, he was a fail his first full NHL season and sent back to the AHL.
Ratcliffe before this year was a 2nd rd project who had a good but not special junior season. A good example why you don't trade prospects early, because he has far more value after a 50 goal junior season and a solid playoff showing.

If Hextall could have gotten ROR that cheap he'd be a Flyer.
The ask was probably Sanheim (#17), #19 in 2018 and someone else.

Buffalo also probably preferred to send him to the other conference, they wouldn't be the first team to do so.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
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If you're David Poile watching the division rival Blues go to the 2nd round, you're probably also wondering why you didn't beat the Blues offer. I could go around the league listing most of the GMs, but that one stands out given how anemic they looked up front against the Stars and their three star forwards.
 
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Oskar Man

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Nov 30, 2010
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Now this is a homer perspective.

Laughton didn't have as much value as Thompson, he was a fail his first full NHL season and sent back to the AHL.
Ratcliffe before this year was a 2nd rd project who had a good but not special junior season. A good example why you don't trade prospects early, because he has far more value after a 50 goal junior season and a solid playoff showing.

If Hextall could have gotten ROR that cheap he'd be a Flyer.
The ask was probably Sanheim (#17), #19 in 2018 and someone else.

Buffalo also probably preferred to send him to the other conference, they wouldn't be the first team to do so.

How is a 1 year cap dump, a cost controlled depth forward, B prospect, and a 1st compared to a 4 year cap dump, an overpriced depth forward, A-/B+ prospect, 1st and a '21 2nd considered a "homer perspective"?
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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You're overvalueing the Flyer prospects from the benefit of hindsight, at the time Sanheim wasn't considered that good, Laughton was a "fail," and Ratcliffe was a 2nd rd pick who might have been an overdraft based on his D+1 season.

Thompson was considered a solid prospect before that trade, similar to Ratcliffe in that he's a tall forward who'll need time to develop, drafted higher (#26 not #35) but a couple years ahead, with half a NHL season under his belt as well as some AHL time.

Bergland at 29 was a more expensive version of Laughton. A limited scorer but a better defensive player who had an offseason in 2017-18 but had some solid years as a 3C.
Sobotka had 27 ES points the year before he was traded, a defensive liability.

It would have taken far more than Laughton, Ratcliffe and #19 in 2018 to match St Louis' offer.
 

FlyTimmo

pit <3
Jul 10, 2013
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How is a 1 year cap dump, a cost controlled depth forward, B prospect, and a 1st compared to a 4 year cap dump, an overpriced depth forward, A-/B+ prospect, 1st and a '21 2nd considered a "homer perspective"?

You just don't know how much St.Louis valued each piece. While Laughton, Ratcliffe, Lehtera and a 1st looks decidedly more intriguing than the actual deal, it may not be that way to Buffalo. Maybe they valued Thompson significantly more than people think. Maybe they didn't consider Sobotka and Berglund cap dumps. Assuming that Botteril* really knows what he is doing and that he would value your proposed package more is a homer perspective.
 
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Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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You just don't know how much St.Louis valued each piece. While Laughton, Ratcliffe, Lehtera and a 1st looks decidedly more intriguing than the actual deal, it may not be that way to Buffalo. Maybe they valued Thompson significantly more than people think. Maybe they didn't consider Sobotka and Berglund cap dumps. Assuming that Tim Murray really knows what he is doing and that he would value your proposed package more is a homer perspective.

Murrays been gone a few years. Botterril is the Sabres GM.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Ooof... well. I guess my point still stands though. We don't really know how stupid Botteril is.

He stole Skinner from Carolina but then gave away ROR..and will probably lose Skinner as a UFA..and still doesnt have a coach..so...who knows lol
 
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