Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc.

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baudib1

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Apr 12, 2016
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I would strongly object to that having value by definition, especially when we can narrow the scope down to depth players, as we would be doing in Morin's case.

The Games Played standard makes some sense in a sport like baseball where teams are by and large more informed of where value is generated, as well as having more ample roster space and substitution patterns for players who fit a narrow role.

I don't know how else to express the idea that Zamula has incredibly high bust potential, compared to Morin, who still has pretty high bust potential himself. If the Flyers give Morin a reasonable shot at all, he's going to get 50-100 games with them minimum, and even if they dump him he's going to get another 2+ seasons in looks by other teams, i.e., a Brandon Manning career. I'm not confident Zamula is going to get that at this point.
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
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I don't know how else to express the idea that Zamula has incredibly high bust potential, compared to Morin, who still has pretty high bust potential himself. If the Flyers give Morin a reasonable shot at all, he's going to get 50-100 games with them minimum, and even if they dump him he's going to get another 2+ seasons in looks by other teams, i.e., a Brandon Manning career. I'm not confident Zamula is going to get that at this point.

Completely fair. I don't think we should try to quantify it today. How the hell do we measure the value of an NHL roster spot or something like PP time in developmental leagues with the data we have available? Especially in a system as potentially logjammed as this one will be in the next 2-3 years.

Just to understand exactly where you're coming from, would you call Manning a rough net positive/neutral/negative UDFA signing? Did you think he was an acceptable 7Dish type while here or did you think he was unplayable?
 

baudib1

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From a development standpoint, I'd call Manning a pretty big success. In 2011 I probably had no idea who Brandon Manning was and the fact that he went on to play more than 200 games for the Flyers is sort of amazing. He gave the team way more than it could have hoped for.

The fact that his Flyers career probably should have been ~60 games instead of 200 isn't his fault, or the development program's fault.

I'll be sorely disappointed if Morin isn't more than a Manning for us.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,159
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"Bust potential" seems a rather arbitrary concept. Probably every person defines it differently too. It also skews the argument towards floor over ceiling.

I imagine I view a few players as having a decently high bust potential that others wouldn't dream of.
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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Morin won't play over Sanheim or Provy who should be our 2 LHD on the top 2 pairings. But I do think he can bring some things they can't. And I do believe our PK will be improved when he gets here. He will always be cheap due to points and he can outplay his cap hit on the regular, imo.

Get him some games this year and pray for no setbacks. He will have bad games this year when he plays so I expect it. Being off for so long there will be lots of rust to shake off.
 

Don Nachbaur 26

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Jun 23, 2008
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Morin won't play over Sanheim or Provy who should be our 2 LHD on the top 2 pairings. But I do think he can bring some things they can't. And I do believe our PK will be improved when he gets here. He will always be cheap due to points and he can outplay his cap hit on the regular, imo.

Get him some games this year and pray for no setbacks. He will have bad games this year when he plays so I expect it. Being off for so long there will be lots of rust to shake off.
Well thought out with reasonable expectations. That's like seeing a frickin unicorn out in the wild.
 

baudib1

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I do think people are being a bit dismissive of Morin's upside. Writing off a 24-year-old, fast 6-foot-7 guy who shoots the puck 100 mph is a little silly. As noted, the PK has been a weak spot for years. It also might be nice to have someone on the ice who might prevent all 5 Minnesota Wild players from crashing into Carter Hart.
 

renberg

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Dec 31, 2003
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At the start of TC for the '17-18 season, Morin looked like a lock to make the team. He had a good camp and had outplayed Sanheim for a spot on the roster, then he was hurt. He went down, started to look good again but was not recalled, and then blew out his knee. Now all of a sudden he's dog dirt?
When he's healthy, as he soon will be, there are things that he can do that most of the other Flyers defensemen can't. You can't coach size and physical intimidation and Sam has it. If you've ever been knocked on your @$$ by a guy this big, you'll realize his value. He's a problem even if he doesn't hit you because he just might. He's not a great skater but he's not bad either; he doesn't make the greatest passes but he can to a degree; he's not going to score a lot of goals but he has a heck of a shot that few people will want to get in front of. He won't be a top pairing player but he'll be able to hold his own; definitely on the third pair if not the second.
 

TB87

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
May 30, 2018
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I do think people are being a bit dismissive of Morin's upside. Writing off a 24-year-old, fast 6-foot-7 guy who shoots the puck 100 mph is a little silly. As noted, the PK has been a weak spot for years. It also might be nice to have someone on the ice who might prevent all 5 Minnesota Wild players from crashing into Carter Hart.


3rd pair PK specialist doesn’t exactly scream “upside.” My issue with Morin has always been that he’s a defensive defenseman who really isn’t all that great at defense. He gets beaten in coverage a lot. Moving the puck cleanly out of the zone is a much better outcome than having to clear the crease due to a failed clear or exit pass (which happens with Morin quite a bit).
 

Foggy14

Registered User
Sep 13, 2017
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Dan Silver's top 20 Flyers prospects and write ups.

Flyers Top 20 Prospects – January 2019

Interesting read.

Regarding Morin, I think he clearly earned a spot on the Flyers' roster a year and a half ago. The fact that two guys who aren't around anymore screwed him over to make room for Hägg, and then the injuries occurred, doesn't drop him to #17, at least in my book.

Personally, I'd give him an opportunity to come back and claim the spot he earned in 2017. A third pairing of Sam and Myers (with Sam getting additional PK time) could be pretty intriguing.

Zamula? It's probably too early to give him a "definite" ceiling at age 18. The beta on this kid is pretty high, as indicated by his passing through the draft, but earning a contract in a very competitive situation (an NHL camp).
 

baudib1

Registered User
Apr 12, 2016
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3rd pair PK specialist doesn’t exactly scream “upside.” My issue with Morin has always been that he’s a defensive defenseman who really isn’t all that great at defense. He gets beaten in coverage a lot. Moving the puck cleanly out of the zone is a much better outcome than having to clear the crease due to a failed clear or exit pass (which happens with Morin quite a bit).

Radko Gudas was a 24-year-old 3rd pair guy who didn't PK and he had upside.

Of course getting the puck out of the zone is superior to not getting the puck out of the zone, but the best Corsi teams in the world sometimes have to play in the defensive zone.

Morin scored 32 points in 38 games in his last year in juniors, and then Scott Gordon told him not to worry about scoring for two years.

When Zamula gets here, it's quite possible the same thing happens. If Zamula's future value is going to be based on generating offense, it might be tough with Ghost, Sanheim, Provorov and Myers.
 

dats81

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
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I wanna see Morin skate and move after that long rehab period before drawing any comparisons.
Maybe I'm way too skeptical but nobody can forsee how the knee is holding up and in the bigger picture it remains to be seen if it was all bad luck or injuries remain a pattern for him.
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
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Pennsylvania
I certainly am biased of Morin because I was always a believer of him. He had a great camp and deserved the spot Hagg received at the time. I still believe he’s an upgrade to Hagg. Which is great for a 3rd pairing, PKing defenseman that’s cost efficient.
It's really mind-blowing that anyone would think Hagg was better than Morin, or more NHL ready.

Especially Hextall... he gets rid of Grossmann because he was a big/slow/strong/dumb dinosaur who can't play in the modern NHL... then he adds Grossmann 2.0???? I don't get it.
 
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