Phaneuf or Johnson?

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Vagrant

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As has been said, it's hard to compare a player who is two years ahead of another player in development. The fact that we're having this discussion at all means that both players are great defensive prospects and both should be regarded as only that until they prove something in professional hockey.

From my simple observations, as i've only seen highlight packages and the even more rare sample tapes of Jack Johnson, i'm going to have to say that as of this moment Phaneuf is by far more ready for the NHL than is Jack Johnson. As he should be considering he has a few years on Johnson. I've watched a pretty decent number of Red Deer games while trying to nitpick Cam Ward's game and have noticed quite a few things that make me regard Phaneuf in a higher light than Johnson, but as i've said I haven't seen a lot of in game action from Johnson.

Right now, easily Phaneuf. Next year, easily Phaneuf. Five years from now, it's a complete and total toss up and anybody who tells you differantly has their own interest in mind.
 
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Definetely Johnson. The thing is, he's a great physical and defensive defenseman, who also adds a great offensive edge. IMO, Johnson is ahead of Dion by quite a margin, but that's just me.

Unfortunately, he'll get the 'ol NCAA shaft, and barring an incredible WJC, he'll be underrated for quite a while, even though he was drafted high. If the same thing happens to the two Ryans(Whitney and Suter), then it'll probably happen to him.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Bobby Ryan Getzlaf said:
Unfortunately, he'll get the 'ol NCAA shaft, and barring an incredible WJC, he'll be underrated for quite a while, even though he was drafted high. If the same thing happens to the two Ryans(Whitney and Suter), then it'll probably happen to him.

That's strange. Ryan Suter has been receiving far better press and rankings in the last 2 years than he ever deserved.
 
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Vlad The Impaler said:
That's strange. Ryan Suter has been receiving far better press and rankings in the last 2 years than he ever deserved.

I completely disagree. While Suter's been a top 10 prospect, he's definetely deserved it, but when a guy like Dion Phaneuf in comparison is a top 3 prospect in some cases, I think he's getting the shaft. Personally, I think Suter is and will be better than Phaneuf, but I'm the minority on that one.

Comments like that, though, somewhat prove my point. Suter may get ranked accordingly by some, but very few fans even see Suter as a guy who's even close to Phaneuf. IMO, even though his rankings aren't bad, in the fans' view, he is one of the most underrated prospects out there.
 

Johnnybegood13

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Vlad The Impaler said:
That's strange. Ryan Suter has been receiving far better press and rankings in the last 2 years than he ever deserved.
Agreed!

My take:
Johnson will be a skilled offensive machine ala Blake and Phaneuf will be a much feared hitting machine ala Stevens but with a better shot and passing skills.

Take your pick...they both look like keepers to me.

But Phaneuf is ready now!
 

Rabid Ranger

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Vlad The Impaler said:
That's strange. Ryan Suter has been receiving far better press and rankings in the last 2 years than he ever deserved.


Says you, who happens to be in the minority.
 

Rabid Ranger

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Caniacforever said:
As has been said, it's hard to compare a player who is two years ahead of another player in development. The fact that we're having this discussion at all means that both players are great defensive prospects and both should be regarded as only that until they prove something in professional hockey.

From my simple observations, as i've only seen highlight packages and the even more rare sample tapes of Jack Johnson, i'm going to have to say that as of this moment Phaneuf is by far more ready for the NHL than is Jack Johnson. As he should be considering he has a few years on Johnson. I've watched a pretty decent number of Red Deer games while trying to nitpick Cam Ward's game and have noticed quite a few things that make me regard Phaneuf in a higher light than Johnson, but as i've said I haven't seen a lot of in game action from Johnson.

Right now, easily Phaneuf. Next year, easily Phaneuf. Five years from now, it's a complete and total toss up and anybody who tells you differantly has their own interest in mind.


I think you highlight a situation that exists amongst many people who are attempting to analyze Jack Johnson's game and potential: They have seen very little or no actual game footage of him. As for your comments, of course Phaneuf is more NHL ready than Johnson! Like you said, he has two years of development on him. However, Canes management, including Jim Rutherford apparently think Johnson is ready for pro hockey NOW, so he can't be that far behind.
 

flambers

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I personally believe the Canes would be making a huge mistake keeping an 18 yr old on defense. Johnson would be better off if they waited at least 1 more year.
 

ktownhockey

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Malakian#13 said:
Rob Blake is that a good Johnson comparison? I think Johnson is faster then Blake though and Blake has a better shot then Johnson.


rob Blake is about 4 inches taller than Johnson and 30-35 pounds heavier.

i think Johnson WILL BE a faster skater and better passer I think their different physically... Blake likes the angles and the big BUTT checks where I see Johnson just going after people ala Chelios, which isn't a bad thing...


As for the Phanuef Johnson comparison im gonna have to side with Phaneuf for now... we'll see how Johnson progresses at Michigan then we can make an accurate account.
 
Bobby Ryan Getzlaf said:
I completely disagree. While Suter's been a top 10 prospect, he's definetely deserved it, but when a guy like Dion Phaneuf in comparison is a top 3 prospect in some cases, I think he's getting the shaft. Personally, I think Suter is and will be better than Phaneuf, but I'm the minority on that one.

Comments like that, though, somewhat prove my point. Suter may get ranked accordingly by some, but very few fans even see Suter as a guy who's even close to Phaneuf. IMO, even though his rankings aren't bad, in the fans' view, he is one of the most underrated prospects out there.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=120559&highlight=suter

About 50% of the fans seemed to think so in this poll.
 

bleedgreen

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johnson him self admits that his favorite player was vladimir konstantinov - which i really find an interesting comparison. vlad was always very underated and for a couple of years a legitimate norris hopeful. i think when making comparisons to guys like stevens or chelios - maybe vladdy is just as good a comparison. he had pretty good puck skills for aggresive guy, he could play on the pp. people generally didnt put vlad in the same stratosphere as chelios, though maybe he belonged there. i would be very happy in jj makes it to that point, though some might say that wouldnt be good enough - which i think is ridiculous.
 

ChesterNimitz

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Both will be good. Bourdon will be better.

That is all.
 

Letang fan 58

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bure94 said:
Are'nt these different types of dmen ?

From what I know Phan. is a defensive dman while John. is a offensive dman.

You can't compare them.

Phaneuf has an amazing shot, he was a point a game player last year in the WHL....id say he wasnt drafted being only a defensive prospect at all.

Johnson has a mean streak to him as well....borderline dirty at times....so i would hardly say hes only offensive.

to me these 2 prospects are incredibly similar....I am a huge phaneuf fan so take it for what its worth.....but at this point Phaneuf has the most potential by a decently large amount.

If Johnson goes out and competes in the juniors and is the top dman that will make me re evaluate how much the edge is by.
 

NYC Aim 4588

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jackmanfan said:
Who has the higher upside, Dion or Jack?
:dunno:

People are comparing Phanuef to Stevens and Johnson to Chelios which I guess is understandable, but mean while I dont think any one has any idea of the type of player Stevens was. People say Dion is like Scott defensivly and be it when Stevens entered the league and still into his time with the Dev's was actually a tough physical point producing defenseman, but as he matured and got older just became a great leader and more of a physical player and a #1 guy, and a # 1D-Man on any roster.

For the Jack Johnson comaprison to Chelios is ok but then I hear comparisons to a Pronger so everyone has there own opinions on what these kids will be like. As if Phaneuf turns out to be like Stevens and plays like Stevens did with Washington but also keeps that offensive ability and then still plays like the physical Stevens in NJ, then no question I would much rather have a Phaneuf/Stevens with a highly physical game and can put up 40-50/60 points a season,than just a hard nose offensive D-man with some physical play.

So if the comparison remain the same with D.P and S.S now that its made clear that early in Stevens career he was also offensive then yes with out a doubt I will take Dion, but if he doesnt posses everything all around then I will take an offensive minded d-man with an edge over a just physical d-man who can put in some points here and there.

Here are some of Stevens stats:

1980-81 Kitchener Rangers OHL 1 0 0 0 0
1981-82 Kitchener Rangers OHL 68 6 36 42 158 15 1 10 11 71
1982-83 Washington Capitals NHL 77 9 16 25 195 4 1 0 1 26
1983-84 Washington Capitals NHL 78 13 32 45 201 8 1 8 9 21
1984-85 Washington Capitals NHL 80 21 44 65 221 5 0 1 1 20
1985-86 Washington Capitals NHL 73 15 38 53 165 9 3 8 11 12
1986-87 Washington Capitals NHL 77 10 51 61 283 7 0 5 5 19
1987-88 Washington Capitals NHL 80 12 60 72 184 13 1 11 12 46
1988-89 Washington Capitals NHL 80 7 61 68 225 6 1 4 5 11
1989-90 Washington Capitals NHL 56 11 29 40 154 15 2 7 9 25
1990-91 St. Louis Blues NHL 78 5 44 49 150 13 0 3 3 36
1991-92 New-Jersey Devils NHL 68 17 42 59 124 7 2 1 3 29
1992-93 New-Jersey Devils NHL 81 12 45 57 120 5 2 2 4 10
1993-94 New-Jersey Devils NHL 83 18 60 78 112 20 2 9 11 42
1994-95 New-Jersey Devils NHL 48 2 20 22 56 20 1 7 8 24
1995-96 New-Jersey Devils NHL 82 5 23 28 100 -- -- -- -- --
1996-97 New-Jersey Devils NHL 79 5 19 24 70 10 0 4 4 2
1997-98 New-Jersey Devils NHL 80 4 22 26 80 6 1 0 1 8
1998-99 New-Jersey Devils NHL 75 5 22 27 64 7 2 1 3 10
1999-00 New-Jersey Devils NHL 78 8 21 29 103 23 3 8 11 6
2000-01 New-Jersey Devils NHL 81 9 22 31 71 25 1 7 8 37
2001-02 New-Jersey Devils NHL 82 1 16 17 44 6 0 0 0 4
2002-03 New-Jersey Devils NHL 81 4 16 20 41 24 3 6 9 14
2003-04 New-Jersey Devils NHL 38 3 9 12 22 -- -- -- -- --
NHL Totals 1635 196 712 908 2785 233 26 92 118 402


Now do people still want to continue to compare Stevens to Phanuef, like I said b4 if so the with out a doubt its almost impossible not to take Phaneuf. Stevens was just more than physical was a prime point producer.

And in there primes though Im a proud AMERICAN I would choose the canadian Stevens over the AMERICAN Chelios. Take no offense to the AMERICAN/canadian thing, just wanted to mention it.
 
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