PGT -- SummerSlam 2019

[JackSlater]

But that's exactly what he was doing, though, before he won. Overcoming the odds, even if it's cliche, bypassing every obstacle Vince set up for him, finishing with the big win on the grandest stage of them all. It was a well-written climax to a captivating story. Where they go from here, though, who even knows.

I know that's what they did. The fans latched onto the wrong guy for a few weeks, but WWE at least did a proper job building it to take advantage. You don't keep the title on that guy for half a year or more though, and ideally you draw out the chase to see if there is really something there or not, but of course WWE doesn't have the patience for that.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I feel like Undertaker is going to have to put The Fiend over imo

legitimately become that new face of fear / intimidating element and grabbing the force from Undertaker

That's one way to make the wrong right from Wrestlemania.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

something small I noticed is that Lesnar really tries to protect his opponents with german suplexes these days.

I started noticing it at Survivor Series with Bryan where he would try helping him push off and do flip bumps instead of taking hard falls to his upper body, and noticed it recently with Seth where on the release, he holds Seth’s hips so he wouldn’t land on the top of his head on the release either, and instead takes more of the impact on his back.

 

[Jussi]

something small I noticed is that Lesnar really tries to protect his opponents with german suplexes these days.

I started noticing it at Survivor Series with Bryan where he would try helping him push off and do flip bumps instead of taking hard falls to his upper body, and noticed it recently with Seth where on the release, he holds Seth’s hips so he wouldn’t land on the top of his head on the release either, and instead takes more of the impact on his back.

Yeah, he doesn't try to fling the opponent that high anymore, instead making it look like a real wrestling throw.

I also noticed Goldberg clearly protecting Ziggler on the Jackhammer.

 

[Dr Pepper]

How do you protect someone while executing a Jackhammer?

I mean I get that the move requires a ton of strength on Goldberg's part to get that vertical hold (with help from Ziggler), but on the follow-through there's really not a whole lot that can be done.

 

[dahrougem2]

Man, I get that Ziggler was always going to lose to Goldberg, but did Goldberg seriously have to kick out at one on BOTH super kicks from Dolph?

Can't you at least let the guy get to two? Way to bury the **** out of that move.

 

[GKJ]

Man, I get that Ziggler was always going to lose to Goldberg, but did Goldberg seriously have to kick out at one on BOTH super kicks from Dolph?

Can't you at least let the guy get to two? Way to bury the **** out of that move.

Dolph's lucky he got as much in as he did

 

[Cor]

Man, I get that Ziggler was always going to lose to Goldberg, but did Goldberg seriously have to kick out at one on BOTH super kicks from Dolph?

Can't you at least let the guy get to two? Way to bury the **** out of that move.

Jack Swagger called him out about that on Twitter.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

i’m pretty sure Goldberg would get his ass kicked by Riddle & Swagger in a shoot lol

 

[HandsomeHollywood]

Man, I get that Ziggler was always going to lose to Goldberg, but did Goldberg seriously have to kick out at one on BOTH super kicks from Dolph?

Can't you at least let the guy get to two? Way to bury the **** out of that move.

The move was buried long ago. It's a transitional move in most other matches. A 2 count barely helps Dolph, and kicking out at one makes the story.
I'm a huge fan of Dolph and have never been a fan of Goldberg, but Dolph absolutely did the best he could with that. Wildly entertaining.

 

[Disclose]

everyone knew it was gonna be a squash match and Dolph had no chance.
what does it change if he kicks out at 1 or 2?

its not like we need to protect Dolph in 2019 lol.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Yeah it's fine that Goldberg would be booked to go over, but I agree that he could've at least made Ziggler look a LITTLE credible by selling the move longer than just a one-count.

Create that suspense that Dolph might actually pull off the "upset", before going over. He might as well have no-sold a Zig Zag.

Knowing when to kick out can do a lot to put over your opponent. Some could figure it out, while others - like Goldberg, apparently - don't care.

I always laugh whenever I watch old clips of Hogan.....well, past-his-prime Hogan, but whenever he lost he'd always be sure to kick out right after three.....like, 'you beat me, but just barely!' The concept of lying motionless for a three-count was foreign to him.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Yeah it's fine that Goldberg would be booked to go over, but I agree that he could've at least made Ziggler look a LITTLE credible by selling the move longer than just a one-count.

Create that suspense that Dolph might actually pull off the "upset", before going over. He might as well have no-sold a Zig Zag.

Knowing when to kick out can do a lot to put over your opponent. Some could figure it out, while others - like Goldberg, apparently - don't care.

I always laugh whenever I watch old clips of Hogan.....well, past-his-prime Hogan, but whenever he lost he'd always be sure to kick out right after three.....like, 'you beat me, but just barely!' The concept of lying motionless for a three-count was foreign to him.

except for Rock. Hogan always laid down for Rock.

everyone else though? forget about it lol

 

[Cor]

I hate 1 counts.

I prefer immediate kickouts, or 2 kickouts.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I hate 1 counts.

I prefer immediate kickouts, or 2 kickouts.

I just hate how revved up Michael Cole gets for like, the first fall of a title match.

"Rollins with the dropkick, he goes for the pin, FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP....and he kicks out at one!"

 

[Cor]

I just hate how revved up Michael Cole gets for like, the first fall of a title match.

"Rollins with the dropkick, he goes for the pin, FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP....and he kicks out at one!"

WWE commentators have no idea how to call pins.

*Wrestler hits random move, and goes for cover* "We HaVe A nEw ChAmPiOn!!!" *Kicks out at 1*

Mauro needs to teach them all.

 

[Dr Pepper]

WWE commentators have no idea how to call pins.

*Wrestler hits random move, and goes for cover* "We HaVe A nEw ChAmPiOn!!!" *Kicks out at 1*

Mauro needs to teach them all.

That's what sets them apart from someone like Jim Ross, who could sell the hell out of a move but was never phony enough to exaggerate an early fall like that.

 

[dahrougem2]

Yeah it's fine that Goldberg would be booked to go over, but I agree that he could've at least made Ziggler look a LITTLE credible by selling the move longer than just a one-count.

Create that suspense that Dolph might actually pull off the "upset", before going over. He might as well have no-sold a Zig Zag.

Knowing when to kick out can do a lot to put over your opponent. Some could figure it out, while others - like Goldberg, apparently - don't care.

I always laugh whenever I watch old clips of Hogan.....well, past-his-prime Hogan, but whenever he lost he'd always be sure to kick out right after three.....like, 'you beat me, but just barely!' The concept of lying motionless for a three-count was foreign to him.

Precisely what I'm getting at. You don't need to protect Dolph by any means or even make him look strong, because he's Dolph. But at least create a suspension of belief for even a brief moment for fans to think "holy ****, he might actually do this." If Goldberg kicks out at 2 after the first super kick, and then just barely kicks out after the second super kick, fans are going to think "if he hits this one more time, it's over."

Instead, fans were probably thinking Dolph could hit 100 super kicks and Goldberg would kick out at one every single time.

 

[Disclose]

i think we're complaining for absolutely no reason. Ziggler was not gonna win ever. so it doesnt matter if you fool the crowd in maybe thinking he had a chance, cuz absolutely no one thought he was gonna win.

 

[dahrougem2]

i think we're complaining for absolutely no reason. Ziggler was not gonna win ever. so it doesnt matter if you fool the crowd in maybe thinking he had a chance, cuz absolutely no one thought he was gonna win.

Again, it's not about Ziggler per se. It's about suspending belief for even a brief moment. That's what I personally want when I watch wrestling matches. Good storytelling, good chemistry, and a suspension of belief even if it's ever-so-brief.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It’s a bit dickish, but it’s not like Ziggler is someone who should be protected.

 

[Cor]

That's what sets them apart from someone like Jim Ross, who could sell the hell out of a move but was never phony enough to exaggerate an early fall like that.

And there's no need either. Let the fall happen. JR did that. Mauro does it.

Mauro sells the f*** out of the big pinfalls and the near falls.

 

[Disclose]

Good storytelling, good chemistry, and a suspension of belief even if it's ever-so-brief.

but..
it wasnt good storytelling to begin with. it was a match they pulled out of their ass.
there was not gonna be chemistry. they never fought and it was gonna be a squash.

it was a f***ing Goldbergs match. i woulda been more mad if it was someone else. but it was a guy who doesnt even wanna be there but WWe will keep throwing money tat him to keep him. no one cared.

 

[dahrougem2]

but..
it wasnt good storytelling to begin with. it was a match they pulled out of their ass.
there was not gonna be chemistry. they never fought and it was gonna be a squash.

it was a ****ing Goldbergs match. i woulda been more mad if it was someone else. but it was a guy who doesnt even wanna be there but WWe will keep throwing money tat him to keep him. no one cared.

I didn't say the match had all three of those or was going to have all three of those. I'm saying as a general rule of thumb, when I watch wrestling matches, I want to see those three things.

I obviously didn't expect that from Dolph/Goldberg, and didn't expect Ziggler to win, either. I'm simply saying Goldberg could have done his part to suspend belief even for a brief moment - whether it was against Ziggler or anyone else he was going to defeat in that manner.

 

[Kakko]

I don't agree with the idea that Dolph there's no reason to protect Dolph. He can, and likely will, put younger guys over in the future. Beating Dolph Ziggler means something. Beating Curt Hawkins means nothing. No need to turn one of your established guys who's happy to take a fall into a complete joke.