PGT - Pens/Ducks - From Dupuis to Beau to Adams (Sid, This is Your Life)

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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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I think Bennett will start the game there. But we'll see tomorrow.

You're more optimistic about Bylsma not being an idiot than I am, but even if you're correct, I don't see Bennett lasting more than a period unless he's got 2 points or more. And even then, it will just take one defensive lapse for him to be replaced.

Bylsma's just itching to put KCD back together. I'm not sure how anyone who has followed this team and seen his idiotic obsession with that line can think otherwise.
 

Tender Rip

Wears long pants
Feb 12, 2007
17,972
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+Great to see Neal Malkin and Kunitz, even if it was just for one shift

I know, right?
It was like... like there was chemistry... and like they almost scored, twice.... and like they were just camped in Anaheim's zone.... or something.

Fortunately that line didn't see the ice again, so one can still wonder if it actually happened.

Good win, ultimately. Looked outrageous outmatched until those two penalties late in the first, but thanks to Fleury there was no mountain to climb once we started competing. 'Compete' what was got us this win in the end... and some puck luck. For the majority of the game we looked horrible trying to actually manufacture offense, and none of the lines seemed to have much of any coordination except the 4th.... obviously the 4th just doesn't have any end product.

Did anyone catch themselves wondering what a Gibbons Vitale Megna 4th line would look like? I mean, provided that we have some more size on the other lines, I could see such a line giving opposition fits.
 

bambamcam4ever

107 and counting
Feb 16, 2012
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I get what DB excuse would be for playing Adams there if the Pgh media has the stones to call him out on it, but there is literally no justification for it.

I get you wanting to be positive and that's my nature as well, so I'm not going to bust your balls too hard.

But deep down inside you know DB did this for show and wants to get the KCD line back together as quickly as possible. I firmly believe he doesn't want BB or any other RW to be successful with Crosby, so Dupes can stay there. It's the only thing that makes sense... Iggy... Now Adams for BB... wtf, it's bizarre bro. Bizarre.

There is no logic behind what he does. He was playing Dupes on the top line with the best player in the world... Yet he doesn't think Dupes is skilled enough to play on the second PP unit.

Think about how Pejorative Slured some of his decisions are.

I need to see some real changes in this guy... not some token BS like we saw tonight because the team is slumping.

Yeah, Bylsma must actively root for any line but KCD to fail, so he can be "right." If the line with Bennett had scored, it would have looked bad to break them up so when an easy opportunity arose(a goal scored against) he nailed Bennett to the bench and replaced him with one of the least talented forwards in the league.

I understand that DB isn't the only coach in the league who likes certain players on his team, but his infatuation with talentless stiffs and their elevated roles under him really takes away from what should be a very entertaining team.
 

Jules Winnfield

Fleurymanbad
Mar 19, 2010
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Did anyone catch themselves wondering what a Gibbons Vitale Megna 4th line would look like? I mean, provided that we have some more size on the other lines, I could see such a line giving opposition fits.

Yeah, that would be a line that could actually skate.

I find it amazing that the one thing Bylsma's system requires of the forwards is to skate aggressively causing pressure on the forecheck and get back on the backcheck yet his favorite player is a guy that has no speed to cause pressure for the life of him.
 

Lloydchristmas138

Registered User
Aug 3, 2010
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Not a Pen's fan but I watched this fairly ugly game. I agree with most here, the line combos were making my head spin trying to figure out who plays with who. I get that Adams was put with Crosby to add defense to hold on to the lead, but consistency and continuity are important too. Seems like tinkering with lines every other shift destroys the rhythm and chemistry.

This is clearly a team that should walk into the playoffs and needs to grow and develop their role players so that they can succeed in the playoffs. Kunitz seems to play well with Malkin/Neal, keep them together. Dupuis seems to be a staple in top 6 put him with Crosby and Bennett and let them learn to play with each other. Unless another top 6 forward is brought in letting Bennett grow into that role is huuuuge, I can see that as an outsider.
 

Zirakzigil

Global Moderator
Jul 5, 2010
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Glad to see Fleury continue to do well, I hope he keeps proving the haters wrong. Malkin had a solid game, will be nice when he scores again and gets that monkey of his back.
 

Captain Hook

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
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Weird game. It took forever for the Pens to get a shot in the 1st but it didn't feel like they were under siege and being dominated either. I didn't think the Ducks had a huge edge territorially in the 1st despite the gap in shots. It just seemed like they blocked a lot of shots and got their own shots through. I didn't find many of the Ducks 1st period chances that dangerous either. It was just kind of a tight checking game.

I didn't think the Kunitz Crosby Bennett line was any good tonight. It's worth going back to and trying again next game but they didn't have it going tonight.

Hopefully Bennett is handled like Maatta was a couple games ago. Maatta had a nightmare game in one of his first games after being elevated to the top 4 D and even got demoted back to the 3rd pairing in the 3rd period of that game but DB went right back to him in the top 4 the game after that and he's been there ever since. Hopefully it's the same with Bennett.

I think Adams was only playing with Crosby for added defensive purposes later in the game. Crosby's line had lost a couple guys in coverage in the 3rd. It wasn't necessarily Bennett's fault by any means but I can see where a coach may feel the defensive responsibility and communication might be better with a veteran like Adams out there.
 

Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Feb 16, 2013
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Everyone talking about different line mashes are missing the point. The Pens don't have what they need for a championship run in their locker room. Trades, multiple are needed.
 

BrookswasHere44

Registered User
Jun 22, 2009
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I was a two sport goalie, played at the collegiate level and coach at the collegiate level, but yeah I don't know what I'm talking about.

He went hard to his right to where the pass went, and tried to get back to his left to follow the puck and lost his balance. You make it sound like he saw the pass and fell over.

Fair enough. Again though I wasn't bashing his play tonight. That would not be possible other than the one goal we have a slight disagreement on. I didn't go back and watch the tape so its likely he lost his balance as opposed to over reaction like I initially thought. Im more bent out of shape for Gibbons not getting rewarded on the PP in the last minute...how's that for reach for something to gripe about :)
 

cygnus47

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Sep 14, 2013
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Everyone talking about different line mashes are missing the point. The Pens don't have what they need for a championship run in their locker room. Trades, multiple are needed.

We need maybe some bigger grinders, a healthy D corp and for Fleury to be consistent. Other than that, we just need to be hungry and structured.
 

Waffle Fries

Registered User
Mar 7, 2013
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You're more optimistic about Bylsma not being an idiot than I am, but even if you're correct, I don't see Bennett lasting more than a period unless he's got 2 points or more. And even then, it will just take one defensive lapse for him to be replaced.

Bylsma's just itching to put KCD back together. I'm not sure how anyone who has followed this team and seen his idiotic obsession with that line can think otherwise.

No, I think Bylsma is an idiot.

But even though I disagree with almost everything he does, I still try to understand him and make some sense of why he does these things.

For example, he has a preconceived notion that rookies are irresponsible defensively. Bennett is on the ice for a goal against and near the person who scored. Without examining the situation further, and in addition to his preconceived notion, he blames the goal on Bennett.

Now in his mind, this is cause for punishment. (Because in Bylsma World, only rookies are held accountable.) Also in Bylsma World, if he really wanted to put KCD back together right away, this would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. But he didn't.

Dupuis stayed with Malkin and Neal. This tells me that he was at least happy with how that line was performing. (And let's be honest, the only person that Bylsma cares about on this team is Dupuis).

In Dan's mind, Adams is great defensively. So he put Adams out with Sid to 'protect' the lead and stabilize the line. If Jokinen was there, then I'd be concerned he already nixed the Crosby-Bennett idea. But even though Dan is a dumbass, I'm sure he realizes that Adams is not a top six winger and surely not someone that should be playing next to Sidney Crosby.

I think it's stupid. But I also think that was his thought process. I think Bennett will be out there with Sid in practice tomorrow. At least I hope so.
 

Speaking Moistly

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Feb 19, 2013
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No, I think Bylsma is an idiot.

But even though I disagree with almost everything he does, I still try to understand him and make some sense of why he does these things.

For example, he has a preconceived notion that rookies are irresponsible defensively. Bennett is on the ice for a goal against and near the person who scored. Without examining the situation further, and in addition to his preconceived notion, he blames the goal on Bennett.

Now in his mind, this is cause for punishment. (Because in Bylsma World, only rookies are held accountable.) Also in Bylsma World, if he really wanted to put KCD back together right away, this would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. But he didn't.

Dupuis stayed with Malkin and Neal. This tells me that he was at least happy with how that line was performing. (And let's be honest, the only person that Bylsma cares about on this team is Dupuis).

In Dan's mind, Adams is great defensively. So he put Adams out with Sid to 'protect' the lead and stabilize the line. If Jokinen was there, then I'd be concerned he already nixed the Crosby-Bennett idea. But even though Dan is a dumbass, I'm sure he realizes that Adams is not a top six winger and surely not someone that should be playing next to Sidney Crosby.

I think it's stupid. But I also think that was his thought process. I think Bennett will be out there with Sid in practice tomorrow. At least I hope so.

I can see that. The only real light in the darkness here is that KCD wasn't immediately back in all of its 'glory.' Although who knows what he'll do given some time to think about it. What makes me nervous is Bylsma having time to think about it and probably feeling confident about the win.

Another generous take is that he's trying to ease Bennett into the minutes that he would be required to log on Crosby's line full time, but that's being generous. But I do think he believes that rookies need to either be eased into it or they need to earn the trust in a role; something that he doesn't do with vets. Bylsmalogic is still a type of logic and he probably does have a method to his stupidity.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
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Bylsma's a likable guy, but an idiot behind the bench and a huge burden on this team. Sad thing is, Shero's approaching the same level of burden if he continues to allow Dan to do whatever the Hell he wants when it's CLEARLY not what is in this organization's best interests.
 

Waffle Fries

Registered User
Mar 7, 2013
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I can see that. The only real light in the darkness here is that KCD wasn't immediately back in all of its 'glory.' Although who knows what he'll do given some time to think about it. What makes me nervous is Bylsma having time to think about it and probably feeling confident about the win.

Another generous take is that he's trying to ease Bennett into the minutes that he would be required to log on Crosby's line full time, but that's being generous. But I do think he believes that rookies need to either be eased into it or they need to earn the trust in a role; something that he doesn't do with vets. Bylsmalogic is still a type of logic and he probably does have a method to his stupidity.

I could see that as well, but it makes too much sense :laugh:

I agree with everything you said though.

Another reason I'm not concerned yet is because Dan gives new line combos a patented "2.5 Game Test Run" before he goes back to default. He did it with Kunitz-Crosby-Neal and he did it with Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla.

However the most important thing to remember here is that the .5 game matters a lot more than the first two. So if Beau and Sid light it up together in the first period Friday night, there's a good chance it stays. If they don't light it up together the first period Friday night, there's a good chance we'll probably never see it again.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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No, I think Bylsma is an idiot.

But even though I disagree with almost everything he does, I still try to understand him and make some sense of why he does these things.

For example, he has a preconceived notion that rookies are irresponsible defensively. Bennett is on the ice for a goal against and near the person who scored. Without examining the situation further, and in addition to his preconceived notion, he blames the goal on Bennett.

Now in his mind, this is cause for punishment. (Because in Bylsma World, only rookies are held accountable.) Also in Bylsma World, if he really wanted to put KCD back together right away, this would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. But he didn't.

Dupuis stayed with Malkin and Neal. This tells me that he was at least happy with how that line was performing. (And let's be honest, the only person that Bylsma cares about on this team is Dupuis).

In Dan's mind, Adams is great defensively. So he put Adams out with Sid to 'protect' the lead and stabilize the line. If Jokinen was there, then I'd be concerned he already nixed the Crosby-Bennett idea. But even though Dan is a dumbass, I'm sure he realizes that Adams is not a top six winger and surely not someone that should be playing next to Sidney Crosby.

I think it's stupid. But I also think that was his thought process. I think Bennett will be out there with Sid in practice tomorrow. At least I hope so.

Re: the bolded. Like I said, you have more confidence in him not being an idiot than I do. Because we're talking about the same coach who *does* believe that Adams and Glass are the Pens' shutdown line and plays them as much as he can against the other team's top line.

He has a higher opinion of Craig Adams than you or I. So, at this point, nothing would surprise me from Bylsma, including starting next game with Adams on Sid and Kunitz' line. At most, he'll likely alternate Adams and Bennett every other shift on that line, until the third when Adams becomes the exclusive winger.
 

Waffle Fries

Registered User
Mar 7, 2013
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Re: the bolded. Like I said, you have more confidence in him not being an idiot than I do. Because we're talking about the same coach who *does* believe that Adams and Glass are the Pens' shutdown line and plays them as much as he can against the other team's top line.

He has a higher opinion of Craig Adams than you or I. So, at this point, nothing would surprise me from Bylsma, including starting next game with Adams on Sid and Kunitz' line. At most, he'll likely alternate Adams and Bennett every other shift on that line, until the third when Adams becomes the exclusive winger.

I know he thinks Glass and Adams are a legitimate shut down line. But I already acknowledged that he thinks Adams is great defensively.

There is a difference between thinking they can play against other team's top lines and playing on a top line though.

I really think Dan thought he was having the team be more defensively responsible by having Adams there. If we were down by two instead of ahead by two I can almost guarantee you wouldn't have seen Adams in that spot. Even in Bylsma World.
 

Speaking Moistly

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Re: the bolded. Like I said, you have more confidence in him not being an idiot than I do. Because we're talking about the same coach who *does* believe that Adams and Glass are the Pens' shutdown line and plays them as much as he can against the other team's top line.

He has a higher opinion of Craig Adams than you or I. So, at this point, nothing would surprise me from Bylsma, including starting next game with Adams on Sid and Kunitz' line. At most, he'll likely alternate Adams and Bennett every other shift on that line, until the third when Adams becomes the exclusive winger.

I think him wanting to put Adams on the first line doesn't mean that he thinks Adams is a top 6 winger, just that he can put Adams there and does. I'm not sure if that's worse or not. Unlike Dupuis who I think Bylsma believes is a top 6 winger and a good one at that.

If anything Adams is too slow to be on Crosby's line and would probably keel over if he had to play anywhere near top line minutes. Bylsma wouldn't do that to his bff.
 

WayneSid9987

Registered User
Nov 24, 2009
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Everyone talking about different line mashes are missing the point. The Pens don't have what they need for a championship run in their locker room. Trades, multiple are needed.

They are(or roster moves).
It would certainly help things here if the brass recognized that some regulars just flat out shouldn't be regulars and that roster spots are being taken up by alot of filler at the moment.

Trades for roster upgrades are pretty much impossible with the cap unless you move significant pieces other than Niskanen.
 

stardog

Been on HF so long my Myspace link is part of my p
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So I see a lot of complaining about Adams on Crosby's line.
Rightfully so.
But Beau, as much as I like him was awful tonight. This was his worst game as a Penguin. His turnover led to the Ducks first goal and it came with no pressure. Just an ill advised pass up the boards and he was a part of that comedy of errors which led to Ryan Getzlaf of all people standing all alone directly in front of MAF.
I know this board well and I can guarantee you that had Dupuis played the game tonight that Bennett did, this board would be calling for his head (like they aren't already).

Having said that, despite how Beau played I think demoting him and cutting his ice time makes me hate our coach even more. I can't stand this guy a second longer. How many mistakes has Dupuis, Kunitz, Joker, Adams, Glass, Sutter etc. etc. made this year without any retribution by the leader of our team? This sends the very worst kind of message to the players on this team. The message is loud and clear in that there is a different set of rules for the players. And it isn't a rule which is even set in stone. It moves back and forth depending on whomever or whatever the person or situation. He has no control over his team. They play undisciplined because there is no discipline.

- Dupuis. Of course he was bad again. I'm not one who goes all overboard on the whipping boys around here, but yeah he played poorly. Not near as bad as some are making out, but still...

- Martin/Orpik pairing. Now Orpik was worse than Martin and has been for the most part this year, but Martin hasn't been the stellar Paul Martin he was last year for the past couple of games.

Crosby, geez. It's crazy. He was awful for most of the night. It looked like the same old story. Dumb passes, key faceoff losses while winning "non" key faceoffs (I know, they're all important), easily losing pucks etc. But then Gibbons scores and Sid is energized and for most of that last period looked like Sid of old. Overall I didn't like his game at all. But I was encouraged to see signs of that dominant Crosby for extended shifts and am hoping that this is a sign of things to come.

- Juice and Neal looked bad and indifferent.

+ Sutter had a decent game.

+ Niskanen continues to justify my hatred of him as a hockey player...but I'm are he's a nice guy.

+ Malkin had his jump back. Nice vision on that Gibbons goal but I give more props to Gibbons (see below)

++++ GIBBONS, BRIAN. I would isolate him and really watch to see what he was doing without the puck and on that Malkin goal I saw the play develop like two seconds before it happened. He looks around at Malkin and goes down low. As Malkin goes high, Gibbons follows and shadows him while Malkin starts his circling, Gibbons just fades back and at the perfect pace drifts into a wide open soft spot going towards the net, stick on the ice and wham!
He scored at an opportune time right when that team desperately needed that goal. The second goal he was involved on was awesome as he went behind the boards and got all feisty, hounding a much bigger guy into a turnover.
Man, I really really liked this kid. I really like that we have some guys down on the farm who came up and showed us some spark. And not only that, they actually produced on the scoresheet.
And then it gets me upset that we have them, knowing that they could make this team better yet we have them getting demoted in favor of guys who bring little to nothing to negatives to the team. All in all, I have liked Sill, Megna and Gibbons although Sill really didn't get a chance to prove anything.

Hopefully these guys are coming up to possibly see if they can play at this level so that our team makes some moves... But that's a topic for a different thread.

I'm also not an Engelland basher because I like the element that he brings and don't think that he is as terrible as the hyperbole around here makes him out to be. But having said that there is absolutely NO WAY that either him or Niskanen have earned or done enough to keep a roster spot over Bortuzzo. It is a travesty in leadership that he continues to sit.

+ Letang played yet another strong game. Funny how quick people are to bash him and how difficult it is for people to give him credit. He was solid yet unspectacular and very good on the PK tonight.

+++ Possibly Määtta's best game of the season. If not the best, certainly top 3. So smart. So calm. So skilled and poised. His awareness of everything going down on the ice at all times is legendary. I'm gonna say that I see a possible number one and almost a certain number two defenseman. He is going to be a leader with an "A" on his chest. Well respected at a young age and mature beyond his years. And the best part is he doesn't seem like he is interested in any of the hype or that stuff. He just seems like a kid who plays because he likes to play. Kind of a modest type guy. Refreshing in today's "look at me" world of sports.

#WaiveDags
#TradeNisky
 

stardog

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You're more optimistic about Bylsma not being an idiot than I am, but even if you're correct, I don't see Bennett lasting more than a period unless he's got 2 points or more. And even then, it will just take one defensive lapse for him to be replaced.

Bylsma's just itching to put KCD back together. I'm not sure how anyone who has followed this team and seen his idiotic obsession with that line can think otherwise.

Yeah, Bylsma must actively root for any line but KCD to fail, so he can be "right." If the line with Bennett had scored, it would have looked bad to break them up so when an easy opportunity arose(a goal scored against) he nailed Bennett to the bench and replaced him with one of the least talented forwards in the league.

I understand that DB isn't the only coach in the league who likes certain players on his team, but his infatuation with talentless stiffs and their elevated roles under him really takes away from what should be a very entertaining team.

Agreed. It looks like that was the plan from the get go. Granted, Bennett looked bad tonight but it seems like Danny Boy was simply waiting for one mistake which he knew would come so he can justify as to why a young guy like Bennett doesn't have enough experience to play on the top line.
He should be given an extended look but I don't think he will. Tonight's line change had all the looks of doing it simply for show rather than substance.
 

Shrimper

Trick or ruddy treat
Feb 20, 2010
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I Saw everything except the third period and a little of the second. It's on TV later so will watch that.
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
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Beau had a bad play. He did not have a bad game. He was our best winger in the first. He and Sid were the only pair that created any kind of pressure.
 
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