Pettersson vs. Hischier

[Icebreakers]

It is clear. In the past 30 years, only two players have had more ES points as an 18 year old in the NHL than Hischier in 2018 - Sidney Crosby in 2006, and Patrick Laine in 2017 (MacKinnon 2014 is tied with Hischer).

Nice cherry picking of stats lol. Only comparing ES points. So he will be better than Matthews, and Kane, and Stamkos, and Tavares? What is the point of your post then. All points matter.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Out of Nico's 46 ES points last year, 34 came with Hall. Not many 18 year olds get to ride shotgun with the hart trophy winner.

Hall in 2017 with Zajac as his center - 53 points
Hall in 2018 with Hischier as his center - 93 points

Who carried who again?

 

[Icebreakers]

Ill still take the guy with 52pts at 18 over the 19 year old who has played 1 NHL game

lol if you think 52 points at 18 years old is some kind of an amazing feat for a first overall pick.

Jeff Skinner put up 63 points as an 18 year old.

 

[BAM]

Hall in 2017 with Zajac as his center - 53 points
Hall in 2018 with Hischier as his center - 93 points

Who carried who again?

Nico also help Hall score 80 in 75 as a 21 year old? Or 50 in 45 as a 20 year old?

Nico with Hall: 59.1% GF
Nico without Hall: 48.2 GF

Nico with Hall: 50.2 CF
Nico without Hall: 48.5 CF

 

[Blender]

Nice cherry picking of stats lol. Only comparing ES points. So he will be better than Matthews, and Kane, and Stamkos, and Tavares? What is the point of your post then. All points matter.

5on5 points isn't cherry picking, 5on5 play is the best metric for predicting future results. There is far more variation in special teams and a much smaller sample size. Only on this board is 5on5 considered "cherry picking". What a joke.

By the way, Hischier had 52 points last year, Tavares had 54 as a rookie and Stamkos had 46. Kane and Matthews both did much better, but both also picked up a ton of points on the power play while Hischier had 6. Also no, no one is saying he's Kane or Matthews, both of those guys had better rookie years for sure.

Out of Nico's 46 ES points last year, 34 came with Hall. Not many 18 year olds get to ride shotgun with the hart trophy winner.

I don't think you watched many Devils games last year, if any at all, if you think Hischier just rode Hall to a good year.

 

[BAM]

5on5 points isn't cherry picking, 5on5 play is the best metric for predicting future results. There is far more variation in special teams and a much smaller sample size. Only on this board is 5on5 considered "cherry picking". What a joke.

By the way, Hischier had 52 points last year, Tavares had 54 as a rookie and Stamkos had 46. Kane and Matthews both did much better, but both also picked up a ton of points on the power play while Hischier had 6. Also no, no one is saying he's Kane or Matthews, both of those guys had better rookie years for sure.


I don't think you watched many Devils games last year, if any at all, if you think Hischier just rode Hall to a good year.

No it definitely helps playing with the Hart trophy winner, if you can't understand that I don't know what to tell you. You're boasting about his ES totals as an 18 year old. Matthews, Eichel, McDavid, Stamkos and Tavares didn't play with a Hart trophy winner in their 18 year old seasons. Heck when Stamkos did in his second season he put up 90+ points.

 

[Icebreakers]

5on5 points isn't cherry picking, 5on5 play is the best metric for predicting future results. There is far more variation in special teams and a much smaller sample size. Only on this board is 5on5 considered "cherry picking". What a joke.

By the way, Hischier had 52 points last year, Tavares had 54 as a rookie and Stamkos had 46. Kane and Matthews both did much better, but both also picked up a ton of points on the power play while Hischier had 6. Also no, no one is saying he's Kane or Matthews, both of those guys had better rookie years for sure.


I don't think you watched many Devils games last year, if any at all, if you think Hischier just rode Hall to a good year.

You dont understand what cherry picking means then lmao.

Cherry picking is when you use certain stats or facts to make a point in your favour. By saying only Crosby, Laine had better ES production is putting Hischier in this amazing light like wow only a Generational talent like Crosby and the guy who scored most goals as a teenager is better than him.

yes you can compare ES points, but you cannot just ignore PP points COMPLETELY. Which is what that poster did. So he had more ES points than Ovechkin, Tavares, Stamkos, Kane, Matthews, Hall... and you said it is a good indicator of future success. Okay does that mean Hischier will see more success than those players? His even strength production was impressive , yes but you cant just compare ONLY ES production when talking about first overall picks.

For first overall picks its different. Many players get a lot of PP time because sometimes they must be sheltered early to learn to play at both sides of the ice. You cant just ignore one side of the points completely, which makes it cherry picking.

 

[Blender]

No it definitely helps playing with the Hart trophy winner, if you can't understand that I don't know what to tell you. You're boasting about his ES totals as an 18 year old. Matthews, Eichel, McDavid, Stamkos and Tavares didn't play with a Hart trophy winner in their 18 year old seasons. Heck when Stamkos did in his second season he put up 90+ points.

Again, did you watch any Devils games? Hischier was not gifted minutes with Hall, he earned them because he was our best center last year. He started off on the 3rd line and took the first line job because he earned it. Playing with great players isn't a guarantee of success, otherwise all a team would need is one great player to have success. Hischier did as much to help Hall as Hall did to help Hischier.

 

[Icebreakers]

Nico also help Hall score 80 in 75 as a 21 year old? Or 50 in 45 as a 20 year old?

Nico with Hall: 59.1% GF
Nico without Hall: 48.2 GF

Nico with Hall: 50.2 CF
Nico without Hall: 48.5 CF

Saying Hischier carried Hall is like the most mind boggling beliefs on this forum. If Hall played all 82 games he would have out scored Hischier by like 50 points. Doubling his production..which makes no sense. But yes Hall got like 40 power play points, and those points dont matter so we should just ignore them completely.

 

[Blender]

You dont understand what cherry picking means then lmao.

Cherry picking is when you use certain stats or facts to make a point in your favour. By saying only Crosby, Laine had better ES production is putting Hischier in this amazing light like wow only a Generational talent like Crosby and the guy who scored most goals as a teenager is better than him.

yes you can compare ES points, but you cannot just ignore PP points COMPLETELY. Which is what that poster did. So he had more ES points than Ovechkin, Tavares, Stamkos, Kane, Matthews, Hall... and you said it is a good indicator of future success. Okay does that mean Hischier will see more success than those players? His even strength production was impressive , yes but you cant just compare ONLY ES production when talking about first overall picks.

For first overall picks its different. Many players get a lot of PP time because sometimes they must be sheltered early to learn to play at both sides of the ice. You cant just ignore one side of the points completely, which makes it cherry picking.

No one is ignoring point totals. The narrative is that Hischier had either a bad or average rookie year, which based on his even strength performance isn't true at all. Power play production fluctuates wildly from season to season. Hischier played on our garbage #2 power play unit which barely scored any power play goals (the #1 unit had about 45 of the 54 PP goals), but was leaned on heavily at even strength. He played against top competition all season at even strength and usually got the better of the competition. Your second paragraph points out something in Hischier's favor, he wasn't sheltered like a lot of 18 year olds are, he wasn't sheltered at all. He didn't get gifted #1 PP time and protected even strength minutes, he was tossed to the wolves and excelled doing so.

Cherry picking is when you ignore information that doesn't suit the narrative, no one is cherry picking since no one is ignoring power play production. He didn't score on the power play, and if he doesn't in the future that will seriously impact his potential point totals. He had an incredible year at even strength though, one of the best any 18 year old has had in the last few decades.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Nico also help Hall score 80 in 75 as a 21 year old? Or 50 in 45 as a 20 year old?

Nico with Hall: 59.1% GF
Nico without Hall: 48.2 GF

Nico with Hall: 50.2 CF
Nico without Hall: 48.5 CF

Among forwards with +300 ES minutes played, Hischier was (per Corsica and Natural Stat Trick):

14th in Primary Points/60
20th in Primary Assists For/60
25th in Points/60
41st in Goals/60
43rd in Shots/60

4th in On-ice Goals For/60
7th in On-ice Shooting % For
11th in On-ice Total Goals For

8th in High Danger Goals For/60
12th in High Danger Chances For/60

Those are the stats of a top ~40 forward in the league, and he did it as the youngest player in the league. That's incredible.

Hall started the year with Zacha as his center but Nico very quickly became the defacto #1C, he wasn't gifted anything. No Devils rookies were (look at how sheltered Butcher was). His other winger was a 19 year old 6th round pick.

Yes, players who are on the same line tend to share points. Congratulations on busting this whole "stats" thing wide open. The success of one player does not mitigate the success of anyone else, more than one guy per team is allowed to have a good year.

What do stats from an Oilers player 5 years ago have to do with Nico Hischier's rookie performance? No one claimed Hall was a bad player. But he never had a season like 2018 with RNH or Eberle. He did with Nico, though.

 

[MitchMurphy]

Hischier for me.

 

[Icebreakers]

No one is ignoring point totals. The narrative is that Hischier had either a bad or average rookie year, which based on his even strength performance isn't true at all. Power play production fluctuates wildly from season to season. Hischier played on our garbage #2 power play unit which barely scored any power play goals (the #1 unit had about 45 of the 54 PP goals), but was leaned on heavily at even strength. He played against top competition all season at even strength and usually got the better of the competition. Your second paragraph points out something in Hischier's favor, he wasn't sheltered like a lot of 18 year olds are, he wasn't sheltered at all. He didn't get gifted #1 PP time and protected even strength minutes, he was tossed to the wolves and excelled doing so.

Cherry picking is when you ignore information that doesn't suit the narrative, no one is cherry picking since no one is ignoring power play production. He didn't score on the power play, and if he doesn't in the future that will seriously impact his potential point totals. He had an incredible year at even strength though, one of the best any 18 year old has had in the last few decades.

Yes thats exactly why its cherry picking. Only comparing even strength production to make a point for 18 year olds isnt exactly the smartest, since like i said MOST 18 year old first overall picks get a lot of PP time because of getting sheltered at even strength to start the year.

Saying only Crosby and Laine had better even strength points than Hischer means exactly what then? What is your conclusion?

Hischier wasnt bad by any means. Average? Its definitely possible and that is by no means an insult to the player or the team. Its just reality.

What you can say is that Hischier is one of the best two way players for his age in recent history. Offensively , hes probably going to be average..

Average for a first overall pick production is like 60-70 points. A two way guy who averages those amount of points is like prime Bergeron..

 

[Cheddabombs]

Out of Nico's 46 ES points last year, 34 came with Hall. Not many 18 year olds get to ride shotgun with the hart trophy winner.

I've gone down this road too many times to get fully sucked in again. But if you think Nico simply "rode shotgun" to Hall last season you are grossly misinformed and did not watch much of any of the Devils play. It's true they played together but that's about the entire length of that argument and why this always goes around and around, because that's all people have to say and they just continually spit it out.

 

[Blender]

Yes thats exactly why its cherry picking. Only comparing even strength production to make a point for 18 year olds isnt exactly the smartest, since like i said MOST 18 year old first overall picks get a lot of PP time because of getting sheltered at even strength to start the year.

Saying only Crosby and Laine had better even strength points than Hischer means exactly what then? What is your conclusion?

Hischier wasnt bad by any means. Average? Its definitely possible and that is by no means an insult to the player or the team. Its just reality.

What you can say is that Hischier is one of the best two way players for his age in recent history. Offensively , hes probably going to be average..

Average for a first overall pick production is like 60-70 points. A two way guy who averages those amount of points is like prime Bergeron..

Bergeron was one of the best players in the league. You compare Hischier to Bergeron as if that is a bad thing? I think Hischier will score more, but Bergeron isn't a bad comparison, and I take a 70 point Bergeron over an 80 point guy who is weak defensively any day of the week.

 

[Icebreakers]

Bergeron was one of the best players in the league. You compare Hischier to Bergeron as if that is a bad thing?

No , as in thats a good thing... lmao how did you read my post as if that was a bad thing.


Edit to your edit : Pettersson is not a one way offensive player. Hes responsible defensively, which is why hes playing center in the first place.

 

[DDRhockey]

lol if you think 52 points at 18 years old is some kind of an amazing feat for a first overall pick.

Jeff Skinner put up 63 points as an 18 year old.

And now kuznetsov is a star and Skinner isnt. Kuznetsov stayed in europe 2 extra years.

 

[Blender]

And now kuznetsov is a star and Skinner isnt. Kuznetsov stayed in europe 2 extra years.

Yes, that's why Skinner isn't as good as he used to be, not the serious concussion and injury issues, but that he just wasn't great to begin with.

 

[canadiantirefire]

Devils fans will never admit Pettersson is better, even when he outscores Nico this year.

 

[BahlDeep]

I'm happy for canucks fans, they have something to be excited about for the first time in 8 years.

 

[BAM]

Again, did you watch any Devils games? Hischier was not gifted minutes with Hall, he earned them because he was our best center last year. He started off on the 3rd line and took the first line job because he earned it. Playing with great players isn't a guarantee of success, otherwise all a team would need is one great player to have success. Hischier did as much to help Hall as Hall did to help Hischier.

Earning first line C minutes on the Devils is like being the hottest girl in a group of ugly girls...doesn't take much.

 

[BAM]

I've gone down this road too many times to get fully sucked in again. But if you think Nico simply "rode shotgun" to Hall last season you are grossly misinformed and did not watch much of any of the Devils play. It's true they played together but that's about the entire length of that argument and why this always goes around and around, because that's all people have to say and they just continually spit it out.

Nico with Hall: 59.1% GF
Nico without Hall: 48.2 GF

Nico with Hall: 50.2 CF
Nico without Hall: 48.5 CF

Next...

 

[Horse McHindu]

Pettersson by far AINEC.

I think the real question should be, "Who will be better? Pettersson or Matthews?"

 

[Kelly]

Pettersson by far AINEC.

I think the real question should be, "Who will be better? Pettersson or Matthews?"

This is too funny.

 

[Foppberg]

Pettersson by far AINEC.

I think the real question should be, "Who will be better? Pettersson or Matthews?"

Matthews for sure. Nobody can touch AM34, not even Mario or Wayne.