Proposal: Petry to TOR (trade deadline)

firstemperor

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Your not getting a clear cut top pairing D for a late 1st and one of Sandin or Liljegren. Maybe at the deadline for a UFA rental. Petry has 3 years in term left. Good luck finding that D where teams give you him for cheap

Petry is not a clear cut top-pairing D...

Trading Petry to Leafs and considering Habs situation, it would need to include one of Sandin, Liljegren or Dermott. I unfortunately think the latter is out of the question considering he is an actual part of the Leafs D and a pretty good one. So i would settle for one of Sandin or Liljegren and a 2019 2nd (50OA to 62OA most probably).

Fair ask but Leafs aren't moving Liljegren or Sandin for Petry, we need the ELC's moving forward. Plus, both have looked good.

Letang...

Pens won the cup with Dumoulin-Hainsey as their top pairing, he wasn't wrong.
 
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Baksfamous112

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Jul 21, 2016
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Dont see Dubas moving Sandin, his first ever pick as the Leafs GM. Also doubt Lily is moved. I think it would have to be pure picks from the leafs POV. Management seem high on all the Swedish defenders the leafs have been drafting.

Lily is not an interesting trade chip for us. Even with Petry gone, we have Weber, Juulsen and Brook (who’s going to open a lot of eyes in the upcoming WJC).

We need LHD. I think, if available, a Petry for Dermott swap could be something Habs could and should agree on if the Leafs wanted to go this route
 

HockeyDBspecialist

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I don't really get how the implication is that the Leafs need a top 10 #1 D to be able to win. By no means do I think they are a favorite, but their chances at winning aren't 0% until they get that D. They need to improve if they want to be favorites, but lots of teams have won without one of the very best D in the league. If the Leafs offense can't make up for not having one of the top 10 D in the league, you are basically saying that there are maybe 3 teams that have any chance to win the cup. Nashville, San Jose and Tampa. Maybe Columbus?

After that I don't think there is another team that is better than teams like Winnipeg or Toronto that also has one of the 10 best D in the league.

Every team has weaknesses. The most common things people say you "need" to have to win are;

1) An elite #1 Center
2) Strong top 3 center depth
3) At least 1 game breaking goal scorer
4) An elite #1 D
5) A strong top 4
6) An elite goalie


Tampa is the only team you could argue that ticks all the boxes, and they have proven they can lose in the playoffs. Many past champions are missing some of these pieces, and in a cap league, there is virtually nothing you can do to guarantee you assemble all of the ingredients.

I'm sorry but the Caps, Pens, Chicago, Kings, Boston, Detroit. They all had a terribly better D squad then the current Toronto Team. Toronto Really really needs a better D core, we even saw it during the last 2 playoffs.... I don't know how you think you can win the Cup with Gardiner/zaitsev as your second pairing lmao.
 

Nizdizzle

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I'm sorry but the Caps, Pens, Chicago, Kings, Boston, Detroit. They all had a terribly better D squad then the current Toronto Team. Toronto Really really needs a better D core, we even saw it during the last 2 playoffs.... I don't know how you think you can win the Cup with Gardiner/zadorov as your second pairing lmao.
I can assure you that no one is pushing that scenario
 

HockeyDBspecialist

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Last 3 cup winners didn't have a top 10 D, Morgan Rielly is an average (15-20) 1D and if he repeats last season he'll move up on that list as well. Leafs more than anything just need a young Hainsey type defensemen.

Letang
Dumoulin
Schultz

Those are all better than your #1 D. Reilly is far from a top 15.... what are you smoking ? He can become one, but he is not.
Points aren't everything.... You need strong Defensive plays, I suggest you go Watch Dumoulin and Orlov plays during the last 2 playoffs.
 

Randy Randerson

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I'm sorry but the Caps, Pens, Chicago, Kings, Boston, Detroit. They all had a terribly better D squad then the current Toronto Team. Toronto Really really needs a better D core, we even saw it during the last 2 playoffs.... I don't know how you think you can win the Cup with Gardiner/zaitsev as your second pairing lmao.
Gardiner & the 16-17 version of Zaitsev is a very good 2nd pairing (a high-event one, but a very net-positive one). So we have quite a bit riding on Zaitsev returning to form but he was pretty injury prone last year. The Leafs real defensive problem is not having a proper partner for Rielly

we also took care of another big defensive issue this offseason, we didn't re-sign Roman Polak, who was a well-below replacement level NHL'er playing over 17 mins a night

Letang
Dumoulin
Schultz

Those are all better than your #1 D. Reilly is far from a top 15.... what are you smoking ? He can become one, but he is not.
Points aren't everything.... You need strong Defensive plays, I suggest you go Watch Dumoulin and Orlov plays during the last 2 playoffs.
That is an AWFUL take.
 

LeafGrief

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Letang
Dumoulin
Schultz

Those are all better than your #1 D. Reilly is far from a top 15.... what are you smoking ? He can become one, but he is not.
Points aren't everything.... You need strong Defensive plays, I suggest you go Watch Dumoulin and Orlov plays during the last 2 playoffs.
Are you trying to tell us that Dumoulin and Orlov or Niskanen are top10 D? I can't imagine that going over well in most hockey circles. Letang was a top10 D three years ago, but didn't even play two years ago when the Pens won the cup. We all know that a team needs good defence to win the cup, but you're really all over the place in what your requirements are.

Fortunately for Leafs fans, we're far more confident in our defence because we don't need to pretend that Dumoulin was a #1 to justify our views. The Leafs D isn't amazing, but the 12th best GA in the league last year indicates that it's not an oozing wound either.

I'd take the time to argue that Rielly is a #1D, but you just argued that Schultz is better than him so I'd probably be more productive discussing politics with the cat.
 

HockeyDBspecialist

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Are you trying to tell us that Dumoulin and Orlov or Niskanen are top10 D? I can't imagine that going over well in most hockey circles. Letang was a top10 D three years ago, but didn't even play two years ago when the Pens won the cup. We all know that a team needs good defence to win the cup, but you're really all over the place in what your requirements are.

Fortunately for Leafs fans, we're far more confident in our defence because we don't need to pretend that Dumoulin was a #1 to justify our views. The Leafs D isn't amazing, but the 12th best GA in the league last year indicates that it's not an oozing wound either.

I'd take the time to argue that Rielly is a #1D, but you just argued that Schultz is better than him so I'd probably be more productive discussing politics with the cat.

When did I say Dumoulin, Orlov and Nis were top 10 ? I said Rielly is not a top 20, and Dumoulin,letang and Schultz are all players I would get before Rielly in my book.
 

Rants Mulliniks

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I'm sorry but the Caps, Pens, Chicago, Kings, Boston, Detroit. They all had a terribly better D squad then the current Toronto Team. Toronto Really really needs a better D core, we even saw it during the last 2 playoffs.... I don't know how you think you can win the Cup with Gardiner/zaitsev as your second pairing lmao.

For those that forget, those last two playoffs featured literally 1/3 of the lineup being rookies then second year players. Obviously that isn't all d-men but it 100% plays into the end result. It may be surprising but Toronto is no different than any other club in that they need time to grow and learn. Despite the lack of D changes, they have subtracted some of their biggest weaknesses in the forward ranks with respect to defensive ability and will be adding minutes to some very defensively responsible forwards, which will translate into better overall defense.
 

firstemperor

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People undervalue Dumoulin way too much, I suggest, but you won't do it, to watch his playoffs or his normal plays. He is an amazing Defensive shutdown D

I suggest you read the context of the post before that. It was that the last 3 cup teams did not have a ~top 10 d man on their team.

It has nothing to do with how astute Dumoulin is, as I don't disagree. Your arguing against nobody here.
 

LeafGrief

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When did I say Dumoulin, Orlov and Nis were top 10 ? I said Rielly is not a top 20, and Dumoulin,letang and Schultz are all players I would get before Rielly in my book.

You didn't say they were top10.

However, you did say

But you gotta Admit, at one point you will need a true #1 D top 10 in the league, and for that you will need to Sacrifice offensive power

So I have to wonder why the Leafs need a top10 D when the Caps and the Penguins each won a Stanley Cup without one. Your points are contradictory.
 

HockeyDBspecialist

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You didn't say they were top10.

However, you did say



So I have to wonder why the Leafs need a top10 D when the Caps and the Penguins each won a Stanley Cup without one. Your points are contradictory.

Letang is a top 10 D ( not now though, all the injuries hit his body pretty hard) and even if he weren't there during the last playoffs 2 years ago, Dumoulin and Schultz took big steps, so...
Daughty is
Keith was
Detroit Had lidstrom
Chara was
Washington had Carlson/Orlov who played well, but ya I won't put Carlson in the top 10. But Washington Core is 10 times better than Toronto...


All I'm saying, I really don't see Toronto winning a cup with their terrible D core and no depth on the LW. great you got Tavares and Matt, I still think you are not even a top 4 playoffs contender seeing how complete the other teams are comapred to Toronto.

in 4 years, yes you are a contender because maybe Dermott and lili will be better.
 
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Habs Halifax

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Jul 11, 2016
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Petry is not a clear cut top-pairing D....

Correct. Didn't say he was. In my previous posts, I said he was an above average top 4D. But the idea the Leafs would be able to get a top pairing defenseman for a late 1st and one of Sandin or Liljegren is not going to happen. Maybe you can get a pending UFA though. But not someone with term.
 

Randy Randerson

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Correct. Didn't say he was. In my previous posts, I said he was an above average top 4D. But the idea the Leafs would be able to get a top pairing defenseman for a late 1st and one of Sandin or Liljegren is not going to happen. Maybe you can get a pending UFA though. But not someone with term.
are "above average top 4" and "top pairing" not the same thing?
 

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