Petition to retire #91 & #13

[Flowah]

Keep in mind Datsyuk entered negotiations asking for 5 years.

I have and will always have a much bigger problem with what Datsyuk did than Fedorov.

I hadn't heard that before.

 

[chances14]

I hadn't heard that before.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...l-datsyuk-leaving-detroit-red-wings/86081818/

“In 2013, Gary Greenstin wanted a five-year deal,” Holland said. “What do you think would have happened if I’d countered with one year deal? He would have been on another team.

It took a June 2015 meeting with team owner Mike Ilitch to convince Datsyuk to come back for the 2015-16 season, with the understanding the Wings would not fight Datsyuk leaving this summer and wanting to continue his career in Russia’s KHL.

There was no pressuring datsyuk for anything other than trying to get him to honor the contract he willingly signed

 

[GBFP]

Datsyuk left when we were bad, when he was past his prime and went back to Russia. I have no real issue with Pavel getting honored.

Fedorov tried to force his way off a top contender while in his prime. Tried to financially break Ilitch in order to go.

To have an issue with Pavel but not Sergei makes me believe you'd have to have been too young to remember Fedorov's antics here and just know him from highlight reels. He was a scumbag who didn't want to be here and went to excessive lengths to try and force his way out of Detroit. You don't reward that with a legacy honor of a number in the rafters. At most I'd show respect to the caliber of player he was and him being in the HOF by taking #91 out of circulation, unofficially retire it if you will.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Datsyuk left when we were bad, when he was past his prime and went back to Russia. I have no real issue with Pavel getting honored.

Fedorov tried to force his way off a top contender while in his prime. Tried to financially break Ilitch in order to go.

To have an issue with Pavel but not Sergei makes me believe you'd have to have been too young to remember Fedorov's antics here and just know him from highlight reels. He was a ******* who didn't want to be here and went to excessive lengths to try and force his way out of Detroit. You don't reward that with a legacy honor of a number in the rafters. At most I'd show respect to the caliber of player he was and him being in the HOF by taking #91 out of circulation, unofficially retire it if you will.

I started watching the Wings in the early 80s so have seen enough of Fedorov to know that's not the case about going to excessive lengths to get out of Detroit. He could be mercurial and frustrating for sure. And the offer sheet was a tough pill to swallow. When fans saw Fedorov take over games seemingly at will the question was always "why doesn't he do that more often?"

But he didn't want out of Detroit. He still spends part of his summers in Michigan and considers it home. What he always seemed to want was the recognition, pay and ice time as the #1 guy on the Wings. That was never going to happen with Yzerman here. Or maybe he just wanted more credit than he was getting in the shadow of Yzerman. He got a lot of praise but the guy was a beast.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I started watching the Wings in the early 80s so have seen enough of Fedorov to know that's not the case about going to excessive lengths to get out of Detroit. He could be mercurial and frustrating for sure. And the offer sheet was a tough pill to swallow. When fans saw Fedorov take over games seemingly at will the question was always "why doesn't he do that more often?"

But he didn't want out of Detroit. He still spends part of his summers in Michigan and considers it home. What he always seemed to want was the recognition, pay and ice time as the #1 guy on the Wings. That was never going to happen with Yzerman here. Or maybe he just wanted more credit than he was getting in the shadow of Yzerman. He got a lot of praise but the guy was a beast.

They never really forgave him for going to Karmanos for that deal in my opinion. That was the true knife in the back and it muddy the water during the next series of negotiations.

Now keep in mind at the time they started negotiating with Fedorov he was going through a lot of personal turmoil. His marriage to Kornikova had crumbled. He had just fired his agent in part for introducing him to his money manager that we know now very well he had just begun to realize was robbing him like crazy. So his initial offer came in with excuse me I am sorting out my agent the Wings get mad and pull the offer. Then he has the in person meeting where they offer him 10 million per year, with one less year I cannot remember if they went 6 then 5 or 5 then 4. He tells Ilitch he needs to think about it, Ilitch tells Holland he is gone and the Wings pull the offer for him not accepting it right then and there. His final offer after 6 X 10 and 5 X 10 is 8 X 5.

You're Fedorov and have a they don't treat me right people whispering around you. The new agency is saying why, you have done a lot for these people. How come they keep giving you a worse offer whenever we talk to them. I think the Ilitch family always went to the well on helping him out of the USSR in terms of my personal opinion on some of the behavior with Fedorov over the years. But to be clear Fedorov risked a lot there as well and might not feel they had as big an impact as what the family felt over the years. They have a very strange relationship, but Ilitch felt betrayed by Fedorov a few times and it hurt his ego. Fedorov gambled and eventually realized he had burned some bridges and left. He almost immediately regretted it when Fedorov does speak on it. Man I wish Columbus would have agreed to send him to us at the end and we could have patched this up some. As it is, much like with Datsyuk your actions have consequences. I don't agree with how far the Ilitch's are willing to take this in terms of not honoring him as for me he is the most entertaining player I ever saw wear the Winged Wheel. However, it appears while we are owned by the Ilitch family he is unlikely to see the honor. That is their right, they own the team.

I think that is often overlooked with Datsyuk. While not quite as bad, they had some hard negotiations with him as well over the years. Some can view that as petty, I get that but hey they hold the keys to this thing and that matters more than what we think about these guys.

Personally and I have never hid the fact I found what Datsyuk did was disgraceful and even at the time I said it would likely cost him this honor.

 

[Dr Black]

I think I have a pretty rare opinion on this, but I wish teams didn't retire numbers. The way I look at it is that it's the player inside the uniform we loved, not the number. I'd rather we allowed others to wears the numbers in their honor.

Your opinion on this issue shouldn't be rare at all. I for one agree with you 100%!!

Way too many primary hockey numbers between 1 and 19 have been retired without just cause were the bar was set too low! Retiring numbers is one hockey tradition that actually subverts hockey tradition. The way this is subversive is the fact that we see so many non-traditional football numbers between 50 and 99, largely due to the inordinate amount of primary hockey numbers that have been retired.

One example on the Detroit Red Wings that really irritates me is Larry Aurie's number 6 being taken out of circulation. This for a player who hasn't played since the 1930's!! It bothers me to see Dekyser wearing 65 when he should wearing number 6. This is just one of many examples.

If I was commissioner, I would put all retired numbers throughout the league back into circulation. The other option is to unretire numbers that really shouldn't be retired, but that would cause hard feelings singling certain guys out. So the better option is to just do it across the board.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Fedorov not retired Jersey number in Detroit is complete Bullshit

 

[Frk It]

Your opinion on this issue shouldn't be rare at all. I for one agree with you 100%!!

Way too many primary hockey numbers between 1 and 19 have been retired without just cause were the bar was set too low! Retiring numbers is one hocket tradition that actually subverts hockey tradition. The way this is subversive is the fact that we see so many non-traditional football numbers between 50 and 99, largely due to the inordinate amount of primary hockey numbers that have been retired.

One example on the Detroit Red Wings that really irritates me is Larry Aurie's number 6 being taken out of circulation. This for a player who hasn't played since the 1930's!! It bothers me to see Dekyser wearing 65 when he should wearing number 6. This is just one of many examples.

It annoys me when a number is out of circulation but not retired. Retire it or let someone wear it... make up your mind.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It annoys me when a number is out of circulation but not retired. Retire it or let someone wear it... make up your mind.

Aurie's family being against the decision to take it down probably does factor here. I am curious though if they will finally go both feet in if they do with the Jack Hughes lottery. He wears 6 and 43 generally just like his brother. So I would be fascinated if Detroit issued him #6.

The big one here is #16 in Detroit. I personally would love to see that go to a special player. Like it would be awesome if Larkin ditched his goofy #71 for it tomorrow. Like I get not issuing it to just anyone, but they clearly at this point aren't going to retire Vladdy, so lets see the number again but only on special talent type guys.

The Wings do take this seriously. For several years after the league retired #99, they put in their program that they did not honor or acknowledge that league decision. Which I thought was amazing.

 

[Frk It]

Aurie's family being against the decision to take it down probably does factor here. I am curious though if they will finally go both feet in if they do with the Jack Hughes lottery. He wears 6 and 43 generally just like his brother. So I would be fascinated if Detroit issued him #6.

The big one here is #16 in Detroit. I personally would love to see that go to a special player. Like it would be awesome if Larkin ditched his goofy #71 for it tomorrow. Like I get not issuing it to just anyone, but they clearly at this point aren't going to retire Vladdy, so lets see the number again but only on special talent type guys.

The Wings do take this seriously. For several years after the league retired #99, they put in their program that they did not honor or acknowledge that league decision. Which I thought was amazing.

#16 I get and am ok with.

We’ve had several prospects who wear #91, and there will be more because it is a pretty popular number. I imagine we will have some defenseman that want to wear #6 as well.

So my take is let them wear it or retire it. Don’t straddle the fence. I would personally retire both, but I just think it’s silly they choose to “partially honor” those guys.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

#16 I get and am ok with.

We’ve had several prospects who wear #91, and there will be more because it is a pretty popular number. I imagine we will have some defenseman that want to wear #6 as well.

So my take is let them wear it or retire it. Don’t straddle the fence. I would personally retire both, but I just think it’s silly they choose to “partially honor” those guys.

Totally agree, I think #6 should hang even though Aurie really isn't a top 20 talent or organizational player at this point. But it was done and to take the honor away is really embarrassing, especially with the family openly being against the decision.

If they aren't going to reissue the number than #91 should be reissued. I remember that with #14 going back out quickly and it ended that. They seem to be blocking #91, #16, #6 are we to assume that includes #13... That is a part of it I can't even tell if it is happening or not. Do it or don't. With #16 I can see only reissuing it to special guys, but they have made it clear they don't want to actually retire it at this point so I would like to see it back in circulation.

 

[Bench]

For several years after the league retired #99, they put in their program that they did not honor or acknowledge that league decision. Which I thought was amazing.

Wait, why is that amazing?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Wait, why is that amazing?

They put in their NHL programs that they didn't honor it. Now as any old curmudgeon at the JLA would have told you back when they were doing it, if you aren't going to honor Mr. Hockey than nobody should have their jersey retired league-wide. That is why they did it openly too, again putting it right in their NHL programs on game night league logo and all right there too. It is a fairly shocking step, I have been told by people the league office were pretty unhappy about it.

 

[Bench]

They put in their NHL programs that they didn't honor it. Now as any old curmudgeon at the JLA would have told you back when they were doing it, if you aren't going to honor Mr. Hockey than nobody should have their jersey retired league-wide. That is why they did it openly too, again putting it right in their NHL programs on game night league logo and all right there too. It is a fairly shocking step, I have been told by people the league office were pretty unhappy about it.

Ah, I see. I didn't know that, nor consider they'd see that as a slight regarding Howe. Thanks.

 

[marcmadsen]

My opinion on the matter is probably not a popular one. But I would rather neither Fedorov or Datsyuk's number be retired. Don't get me wrong, during each of their eras they were far and away two of my favourite players and in many respects I don't know that we'll ever see guys like that in the NHL again. They were both extremely unique and talented in ways you just don't really see in hockey.

Having said that, to me the difference between retired numbers and out of circulation numbers is the loyalty factor. I think retiring players' numbers simply for being talented and/or good players is not the way I've interpreted the honour. That's what the Hall of Fame is for, to honour great players who had great careers. Jersey retirements are to honour (in this case) great Red Wings. Being a great Red Wing includes sacrifice, commitment, loyalty, character etc.

For me, what Fedorov did was way worse than Datsyuk. I was just as disappointed as the next fan when Datsyuk left, particularly in a cap league, but anyone who watched his last season here could see his heart wasn't in it anymore. He left for family reasons and as much as the way he left was a bit sour, I can respect the motivation at least.

As much as I was a fan of Fedorov, and really enjoyed the Hall of Fame induction night (saw it live in Toronto), I just don't see Fedorov in the same light as Yzerman, Howe, Lidstrom, Zetterberg etc. For me, as much as a lot of you feel like there is no doubt that both Datsyuk and Fedorov's numbers should be in the rafters, I feel equally as certain they shouldn't.

 

[Bench]

There will be much conversation. And thought.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

There will be much conversation. And thought.

Kelly I think helps open a door for Fedorov in terms of who is currently up there.

 

[Sentinel]

Datsyuk did not hurt the team in any way. He knew he couldn't crank it out at the NHL level anymore, so he left the team and took his financial obligations along. The only way he hurt the team is by leaving a void nobody can fill in the foreseeable future.

Fedorov left because he needed a change. Financial and more importantly personal troubles at the time warranted that. I wish his career worked out better in the end.

 

[Snuggs]

Love Federov, Love him. But...

There is a price to pay when you turn your back on an organization and I think, for our part as fans, this is it or should be. You don't deserve to get you're number retired if you willingly turned your back. It's not like the money wasn't right.

Still love him though, applaud him now, some of the best young memories of hockey I have but... It is what it is.

Worst part for me is he was great and had a shot to be even better if he stayed with the Wings. He'd of possibly helped us win another back to back against PIT... Could of have 4 cups total, possibly more, 6 stanley cup apperances, could of been a historical player/ Red Wing of all time like Yzerman/Lidstrom.

 

[marcmadsen]

Kelly I think helps open a door for Fedorov in terms of who is currently up there.

The Detroit News has an article to that effect here

For me, the more I think about this topic the more I could see my opinion changing. At first, I was against Datsyuk and Fedorov's numbers being retired. But I think I've adjusted my opinion. I think I'm against their numbers going up early into their retirements like that of Yzerman, Lidstrom, and Zetterberg's. I don't think they should have to wait until they are 90 years old like Red Kelly, but if they were to retire their numbers well into their retirements, I guess I wouldn't mind.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Red Wings continue 'evaluating' whether to retire Sergei Fedorov's number

 

[pvilleguru]

I'm of the belief that retired numbers should only extend until the year after the death of the player. You can honor the player another way after their death, but put it puts these good numbers back in circulation and it cuts out a lot of these arguments over who really deserves to have their numbers retired. Just for arguments sake, let's say 30 years from now, we have 4 more guys that "deserve" to have their numbers retired. If we keep the current 7, add Kelly, Zetterberg, Fedorov, Datsyuk, and 4 future stars, suddenly you have 15 numbers out of circulation. In 30 years, numbers 1, 4, 7, 9, 10, and 12 back on the ice, with 5, 13, 19, 40, 91, and 4 others in the rafters.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I'm of the belief that retired numbers should only extend until the year after the death of the player. You can honor the player another way after their death, but put it puts these good numbers back in circulation and it cuts out a lot of these arguments over who really deserves to have their numbers retired. Just for arguments sake, let's say 30 years from now, we have 4 more guys that "deserve" to have their numbers retired. If we keep the current 7, add Kelly, Zetterberg, Fedorov, Datsyuk, and 4 future stars, suddenly you have 15 numbers out of circulation. In 30 years, numbers 1, 4, 7, 9, 10, and 12 back on the ice, with 5, 13, 19, 40, 91, and 4 others in the rafters.

Many of the families won't be happy I'm sure. Besides that, 15 retired numbers isn't that bad. The players would still have 83 numbers to choose from.

 

[pvilleguru]

Many of the families won't be happy I'm sure. Besides that, 15 retired numbers isn't that bad. The players would still have 83 numbers to choose from.

I understand that, but at some point in the future you'll have to take some down or stop retiring them.

That's why I would propose having a wall or something somewhere in the arena dedicated to players whose jerseys were formerly retired. Make a plaque, bust, or something for every player that has their banner taken down. The season after their death you can have a patch that the players wear before having a removing of the banner/installation of plaque ceremony during the last game of the regular season.

 

[Mlotek]

Fedorov left as a free agent

Datsyuk bailed on an active contract

what Datsyuk did will always be a million times worse to me and i'll be downright insulted if he gets his number retired before Fedorov,and honestly Datsyuk's number probably shouldn't be retired at all

lots of teams have retired numbers of players that have gone to other teams in free agency in the twilight of their careers(look at like half of Montreal's retired numbers for examle)

how many teams have retired numbers of players that have done anything remotely similar to what Datsyuk did?

You are right, he should have retired and left Detroit with the cap penalty (35+). That is a joke BTW, just incase its not bloody obvious.

Get over it, Chayka did the Wings a favour, dumping Datsyuk's contract literally cost them nothing.

Oh no Detroit drops 4 spots in draft (got Cholowski their current D prospect) and received a 2nd round pick (Hronek).

BTW, that hot stuff Chychurn that Phoenix traded up for, hasn't exactly excelled at the NHL level yet. He had 14 points in 50 games while logging 5th most minutes on the blue line in Phoenix.


Why don't you knock on Ralfalski's door for retiring with an active contract as well.