Peter Forsberg vs. Evgeni Malkin

[authentic]

I don't understand people being so quick to take Forsberg in the playoffs. Yes he was a warrior. Malkin is one of the greatest playoff performers ever and had the best playoff run in the last 25 years.

Most Points in One Playoff Season by NHL Players

Did you not just read the above stats? Forsberg was literally better than Malkin in every way in the playoffs, goals, assists, +/-, and more disciplined while being much more of a physical force and a better defensive player, but he didn't have that one Stanley Cup finals where Detroit smothered Crosby and let Malkin run wild so you don't understand others taking Forsberg?

 

[authentic]

I’ll do you one even better: Lemieux’s team won 3 cups after he retired!

Come back when you’re done being deliberately obtuse.

Come back when you make some good arguments, you use the fact his team won without him as an indicator of what exactly? His impact on his teams goal differential was arguably the best of the past 25 years in the regular season and playoffs.

 

[K Fleur]

Come back when you make some good arguments, you use the fact his team won without him as an indicator of what exactly?

That Forsberg wasn’t as important to his team’s playoff success as Malkin is.

Malkin has the higher regular season peak (11-12) and the higher playoff peak (09).

If Malkin finishes this season strong he will have twice as many top 3 scoring finishes as Forsberg. So the better prime, I guess is the best word, goes to Malkin as well.

Like I said earlier if you prefer Forsberg in the playoffs then fine. I don’t think whatever slight playoff edge Forsberg has makes up for the larger edge Malkin has in the regular season.

His impact on his teams goal differential was arguably the best of the past 25 years in the regular season and playoffs.

Do you have the numbers to support this claim? Genuinely curious to what these rankings look like.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Pretty equal really. Malkin might be a little better, but would propably still pick Forsberg, as I just like him more. Malkin is pretty whiny and Forsberg was tough as nails..

LOL at least somebody admits they choose forsberg because they are biased, no other logical reason to think he's better than malkin

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Malkin singlehandedly won the first cup for the Pens of this era

uh crosby had 30 points in 2009

 

[blundluntman]

I feel like they're the 2 most similar players I've ever seen career wise and stylistically. I take Malkin because of his goal scoring prowess but besides that it's pretty much a wash.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

uh crosby had 30 points in 2009

Right. I guess crosbys 31 points had nothing to do with it.

 

[Slapshot Sultan]

LOL at least somebody admits they choose forsberg because they are biased, no other logical reason to think he's better than malkin

So what

Yeah, I'll admit Malkin's propably better, but would still choose Forsberg for my team. Although, if Malkin continues what he's doing right now, I may change my mind

 

[K Fleur]

Small reason? Seemed like the only reason presented in your argumentation.

Post #71

Another way to phrase it would be like this? (It kind of is true, no?)

Malkin won 1 Cup with a great SCF performance, and 2 Cups average SCF performances (lets thank his team!).
Forsberg won 1 Cup with a great SCF performance, and 1 Cup while being unable to participate (lets thank his team!).

Average or not Malkin was at the very worst a contributor in every finals his team's have made.

Obviously Malkin's 2009 run was much better than Forsberg's 96 run, but as you phrase it... scoring a bunch of points in 3 rounds is cool trivia...

A bunch of points in three rounds is a response to the ridiculous amount of praise Forsberg receives for leading the playoffs in scoring without making the finals. It's a ultimately a 3rd round exit with a cool trivia fact attached.

It really is in the traditional sense, but Ovechkin has done his part on more than one occasion. It's a popular argument to diminish his individual playoff performance.

Ovechkin has nothing to do with this thread and you have still failed to establish why he belongs. I'm done talking about him in here.

Ironically he's scoring goals at a higher pace than both Crosby and Malkin, while posting shooting percentages they could only dream of. There is a good argument to be made that the problem isn't that Forsberg wasn't well rounded enough, it's that he didn't shoot enough.

I assume this was meant to be prefaced with "in the playoffs"? Forsberg was a good goal scorer in the playoffs, no argument there.

Also "shooting enough" is part of being well rounded. Like I've already said I don't particularly care about this argument(despite you attempting to pin it on me) as points all count the same.

I already stated in my first post in this thread 'Forsberg fan vote Malkin', so all things equal I would've sided with Forsberg as a personal preference, but I also believe he was more impactful.

I stated in my first post that personal preference is the only argument I can see for Forsberg. Seems like we might be on the same page on atleast one thing.

If ppg is the tie-breaker, yes.
If goals is the tie-breaker, no.
If winning the Cup is the tie-breaker, no.
If there is no tie-breaker, he tied for the lead.

There is no tie breaker and your initial claim was wrong.

 

[bathdog]

Post #71

Great. Your personal opinion stated in a factual manner, thanks for sharing.

Average or not Malkin was at the very worst a contributor in every finals his team's have made.

Average performer getting the chance to participate is inarguably better than great performer never getting the chance?

We need to start talking about Kris Draper. Seriously.

A bunch of points in three rounds is a response to the ridiculous amount of praise Forsberg receives for leading the playoffs in scoring without making the finals. It's a ultimately a 3rd round exit with a cool trivia fact attached.

The bottom line is that Forsberg chances generally wasn't equal to a lot of his direct peers or those since.

Ovechkin has nothing to do with this thread and you have still failed to establish why he belongs. I'm done talking about him in here.



I assume this was meant to be prefaced with "in the playoffs"? Forsberg was a good goal scorer in the playoffs, no argument there.

Also "shooting enough" is part of being well rounded. Like I've already said I don't particularly care about this argument(despite you attempting to pin it on me) as points all count the same.

I'm not trying to pin anything on you. They belong to the same type of really poor arguments, narratives that some insecure fans repeatedly seem to throw around as significant arguments.

I stated in my first post that personal preference is the only argument I can see for Forsberg. Seems like we might be on the same page on atleast one thing.

You seem pretty narrow minded. Despite the fact that most of us (probably all) have preferences, some may be unable to perceive external information in an objective manner because it's in direct conflict with what they want.

There is no tie breaker and your initial claim was wrong.

They were tied.

 

[psycat]

If you used a time-machine and moved the best players from 1970 to face fhe best of today - and give them the exact same equipment.

Do you SERIOUSLY think that team 1970 would stand a chance?

Honestly?

Team 2018 could win 10-0 without breaking a sweat.

I never said that? However im 100% sure that a peak Lemieux would make Crosby look like the second tier superstar that he infact is.

 

[Nocashstyle]

You have literally provided nothing other than "it's not close", could it be that you don't really have a clue what you're talking about?

Says the guy that just made a claim that Forsberg is a top 5 forward in NHL history.

It's cute when people on here lament the "Forsberg obsession" on this board then proceed to show they have no clue about him as a player. Probably mostly those who've grown up during the post lockout era and have seen Malkin's place in the game regularly among the best. Except Forsberg was held to the same standard in his era

That is not true at all. Since coming into the league, Malkin has generally been considered one of the top 3 forwards for a decade straight. Forsberg maybe a few seasons at best.

 

[Binister]

Peak Forsberg was amazing but his longevity really is a big negative side.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Painful as I really loved Forsberg, but at this point it is Malkin.

 

[Yuri35]

Pretty hard choice as i'm a big fan of both (Geno even more so, not the least because i love Penguins and i especially loved Mario back then - and Geno reminds me him so much) but i would still pick Foppa for being the complete package and much tougher to unsettle than Geno.

People who say that Forsberg is overrated on this boards simply don't know what they're talking about.
The guy was quite simply one of the best,most complete players of all time and you only have to look at how his peers and new players talk about the teammate,opponent or the player they admired while they were childs to understand who we are talking about.

He was one of the very few players in history who you could say that when he had the puck, time stopped and the game went at the speed he wanted, not the reverse.

 

[daver]

That is not true at all. Since coming into the league, Malkin has generally been considered one of the top 3 forwards for a decade straight. Forsberg maybe a few seasons at best.[/QUOTE]

That statement doesn't pass the eye test.

Their rookie seasons were close, 2nd years were close, 3rd year goes to Malkin, 4th year goes to Forsberg, 5th year goes to Forsberg. After 5 years, Forsberg is 3rd in points and 4th in PPG (no Mario). Malkin is 8th in points and 3rd in PPG. Malkin has the best regular season in 08/09.

Playoffs is close in terms of points and PPG but Malkin has the best playoff run in 08/09.

I would give Malkin the edge after 5 years but I think you can easily say that Forsberg was a Top 3 forward after five seasons with Jagr and Sakic and not that far behind Malkin.

 

[authentic]

Says the guy that just made a claim that Forsberg is a top 5 forward in NHL history.



That is not true at all. Since coming into the league, Malkin has generally been considered one of the top 3 forwards for a decade straight. Forsberg maybe a few seasons at best.

I didn't make the claim, NHL players voted him that. Once again, it's biased towards modern players but Malkin is a modern player.

 

[authentic]

Pretty hard choice as i'm a big fan of both (Geno even more so, not the least because i love Penguins and i especially loved Mario back then - and Geno reminds me him so much) but i would still pick Foppa for being the complete package and much tougher to unsettle than Geno.

People who say that Forsberg is overrated on this boards simply don't know what they're talking about.
The guy was quite simply one of the best,most complete players of all time and you only have to look at how his peers and new players talk about the teammate,opponent or the player they admired while they were childs to understand who we are talking about.

He was one of the very few players in history who you could say that when he had the puck, time stopped and the game went at the speed he wanted, not the reverse.

People talk about him like he was some run of the mill 1st line center who benefited from a stacked team. It makes me cringe how many people genuinely believe he wasn't close to the best players of the post-lockout era.

 

[authentic]

Says the guy that just made a claim that Forsberg is a top 5 forward in NHL history.



That is not true at all. Since coming into the league, Malkin has generally been considered one of the top 3 forwards for a decade straight. Forsberg maybe a few seasons at best.

Lol, you either weren't alive then, were too young, or are just ignorant. There have also been several seasons during Malkin's career where he was not a top 3 forward, so I would go with the latter on this one.

 

[authentic]

I feel like they're the 2 most similar players I've ever seen career wise and stylistically. I take Malkin because of his goal scoring prowess but besides that it's pretty much a wash.

At their best they are every bit as good as a peak Ovechkin or Crosby IMO.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I feel like they're the 2 most similar players I've ever seen career wise and stylistically. I take Malkin because of his goal scoring prowess but besides that it's pretty much a wash.

They even score wraparounds the same way: Forsberg takes his on the backhand before spinning to a forehand shot, while Malkin takes his on the forehand before spinning to a backhand shot.

 

[Regal]

Says the guy that just made a claim that Forsberg is a top 5 forward in NHL history.



That is not true at all. Since coming into the league, Malkin has generally been considered one of the top 3 forwards for a decade straight. Forsberg maybe a few seasons at best.

Forsberg was widely considered a top three forward after Lemieux retired from 97-98 to the first half of 2005 when he got injured. And overall, from 94-95 to 03-04, he, Jagr and Sakic were the clear best three forwards of that time period, similar to Sid, Ovechkin and Geno

 

[Yuri35]

At their best they are every bit as good as a peak Ovechkin or Crosby IMO.

At his best, Malkin is better than Ovie or even Sid simply because especially comparing to Ovie, he can beat you on more ways than only scoring goals.
Ovie at his best was a decent playmaker but nowhere near as good as Malkin while Malkin at his best was not far from the goal scoring machine Ovie was at his best.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

At his best, Malkin is better than Ovie or even Sid simply because especially comparing to Ovie, he can beat you on more ways than only scoring goals.
Ovie at his best was a decent playmaker but nowhere near as good as Malkin while Malkin at his best was not far from the goal scoring machine Ovie was at his best.

Lol, nice joke. Must be why in 2 of Malkin's 3 healthy seasons OV tore him a new hole in goals, GPG, PPG, hart voting.. If Malkin was such a better all around offensive threat, you'd think he would have led the NHL in PPG more than 1x.. OV, the goal scorer, did that 3x btw.

 

[authentic]

At his best, Malkin is better than Ovie or even Sid simply because especially comparing to Ovie, he can beat you on more ways than only scoring goals.
Ovie at his best was a decent playmaker but nowhere near as good as Malkin while Malkin at his best was not far from the goal scoring machine Ovie was at his best.

Possibly, but Ovechkin and Crosby right there with him either way.