Peter Forsberg vs. Evgeni Malkin

Who ranks higher in hockey history?


  • Total voters
    206

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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Malkin singlehandedly won the first cup for the Pens of this era

Well that's false because they wouldn't have got there without Crosby and no player single handedly wins a Stanley Cup, never has and never will happen.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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Forsberg's playoff stats:

The last two columns are +/- and penalty minutes.

1516410717154163
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]
Malkin's:

149589915717200
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]
On top of this the average goals per game in the playoffs in the late 90s and early 2000s was lower than at any point in Malkin's career so that would negate any argument about Forsberg having superior linemates which I would consider a legitimate point. Forsberg led the playoffs in points twice without even playing in the finals. Forsberg was also a minus player once in his playoff career compared to 4 times for Malkin. Any thoughts on this one?
 

K Fleur

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Mar 28, 2014
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Malkin has lead the playoffs in points twice and won the cup each time. (Plus another 20+ point finals run and an 18 point cup winning run with a bad shoulder).

Forsberg’s team didn’t even need him to play in the finals to win.

Forsberg scoring a bunch of points and getting bounced in the 3rd round trip is a cool trivia answer, but ultimately doesn’t mean much.

Either way if someone prefers Forsberg in the playoffs cool. It doesn’t really do much to close the gap in regular season performance.
 

Regal

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Mar 12, 2010
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Malkin has lead the playoffs in points twice and won the cup each time. (Plus another 20+ point finals run and an 18 point cup winning run with a bad shoulder).

Forsberg’s team didn’t even need him to play in the finals to win.

Forsberg scoring a bunch of points and getting bounced in the 3rd round trip is a cool trivia answer, but ultimately doesn’t mean much.

Either way if someone prefers Forsberg in the playoffs cool. It doesn’t really do much to close the gap in regular season performance.

The regular season gap isn't that big. Malkin has a few more shortened seasons at a high level
 

Regal

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Mar 12, 2010
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It's cute when people on here lament the "Forsberg obsession" on this board then proceed to show they have no clue about him as a player. Probably mostly those who've grown up during the post lockout era and have seen Malkin's place in the game regularly among the best. Except Forsberg was held to the same standard in his era
 

K Fleur

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Mar 28, 2014
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The regular season gap isn't that big. Malkin has a few more shortened seasons at a high level

Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself in assuming Malkin finishes this season strong (1-3 place in scoring).

Forsberg has what 2 top 3 scoring finishes?

If Malkin finishes the year strong he’ll have double that amount. Plus as you said he will also have a “few more high level shortened seasons”.
 

PatrikBerglund

Registered User
May 29, 2017
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The players today are better because the environment is completely different. It's not fair to compare people from different time like that. There aren't many fields where the modern counterpart wouldn't be superior if he was time machined several decades back.

The current players stand on the shoulders of the past generations who made hockey what it is now.

So you finally agree that I am right.

Thabk you.
 

bathdog

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
920
157
Other then Sakic Roy or Blake? And that’s just his team at the time. Look at every cup winner in the last eight years and you can find a guy that brought results like Forsberg

As been touched on, going to have to assume you're referring to runs when their team won the Cup.

Forsberg's playoff stats:

The last two columns are +/- and penalty minutes.

1516410717154163
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]
Malkin's:

149589915717200
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]
On top of this the average goals per game in the playoffs in the late 90s and early 2000s was lower than at any point in Malkin's career so that would negate any argument about Forsberg having superior linemates which I would consider a legitimate point. Forsberg led the playoffs in points twice without even playing in the finals. Forsberg was also a minus player once in his playoff career compared to 4 times for Malkin. Any thoughts on this one?

People generally don't wanna go into differences in Conferences either.

It's really quite simple, it's not a completely ridiculous claim, but it's minority opinion.

the avalanche won the cup without him in 2001, his best playoff year was when he took the entire regular season off

Forsberg’s team didn’t even need him to play in the finals to win.

Forsberg scoring a bunch of points and getting bounced in the 3rd round trip is a cool trivia answer, but ultimately doesn’t mean much.

This is just another one of those 'Ovechkin never got out of the 2nd round' arguments. It just shows blatant ignorance.

You realize Forsberg lead not only his team, but the entire playoffs in scoring at the time of his injury, including Lemiuex? The Avs probably don't win the Cup without him that year.
 
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K Fleur

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Mar 28, 2014
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This is just another one of those 'Ovechkin never got out of the 2nd round' arguments. It just shows blatant ignorance.

How are these arguments the same?


You realize Forsberg lead not only his team, but the entire playoffs in scoring at the time of his injury, including Lemiuex? The Avs probably don't win the Cup without him that year.

I’m aware. You are aware his team did win in the finals without him?
 

GoGoSens

Registered User
Oct 27, 2017
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Malkin will go down as a top ten center of all time.

there is no debating this at all.

I'd go as far to say he's equalled everything Crosby has done at this point and you can argue hes been just as dominate as Crobsy and OV.

Plus add the fact he doesn't dissapear in the playoffs.

I would rank him higher than Sakic and Yzerman at this point.

He's going to go down as the best Russian Center of all time and possibly greatest Russian player ever.
 

Nocashstyle

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May 27, 2009
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See the fact that you don't think it's remotely close shows you have no idea how good Forsberg was. His status as a hockey player goes far beyond an hfboards obsession, he was voted the 5th best forward in NHL history by the players, apparently NHL hockey players have an obsession with him too.

Let's see this poll. What was the criteria? Who were the players? What era did the play in? How many were polled?

What an ambiguous reference.


Of course Forseberg was good. But everyone's obsession is "what could have been if he ever stayed healthy..." Well, he didn't. Malkin is still in his prime and has already surpassed Forsberg's accolades.

I'm no Pens fan either, but this is not close.
 

GoGoSens

Registered User
Oct 27, 2017
261
113
oh my . You don't measure the success of individuals by their team.

Flawed statement.

So Roy should not be given credit for being the greatest playoff goalie ever because its a team sport?

A player stepping up and helping there "Team win" should have no merit on their career?
 

bathdog

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
920
157
How are these arguments the same?




I’m aware. You are aware his team did win in the finals without him?

Because it's a statement that certain posters rely on heavily to dismiss his playoff performance. Another popular one is 'he never even scored 30 goals' to dismiss his offensive ability.

While both are true, they're circumstantial, and there are reasons behind them. It's only one series, and one that went 7 games. Sakic turned it up those playoffs and was awesome, they had a great team, but how or why should that shine negatively on Forsberg?

Here are a couple of more highly circumstantial arguments we can start using to dismiss other players:

Malkin and Crosby have collectively played in 8 final series, they've been sub-par in (at least if they're elite player, players with the ability to rise to the occasion, like Sakic) in 5 or 6 of those possible tries.

Crosby, the 2 time Smythe winner, has yet to lead the playoffs in scoring one single time, in 4 trips to the finals. (Obviously things could've been different if Malkin faced Z/Lids, or if he didn't miss a game in 2017. But this is what happend, so lets start questioning them Smythes even more right?)

I mean, they are true after all, just as the ones made about Forsberg, but it would be ridiculous to make major arguments around them.
 
Last edited:

K Fleur

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Because it's a statement that certain posters rely on heavily to dismiss his playoff performance. Another popular one is 'he never even scored 30 goals' to dismiss his offensive ability.

I was not trying to dismiss Forsberg’s playoff performance. I was trying to show that Malkin’s playoff performance has been more essential to his team’s success. Forsberg’s team winning without him is a relatively small reason why I think Malkin is the better playoff performer.

I still don’t see how this is analogous to an “Ovechkin has never made it out of the 2nd round” argument. That is a massive blight on his otherwise stellar resume, especially in comparison to his contemporaries. Really has nothing to do with this thread though.

I also don’t think “only scored 30 goals” is used to discredit Forsberg’s offense as it seem to showcase that he was not as well rounded of an offensive threat as the players he is compared to.

While both are true, they're circumstantial, and there are reasons behind them. It's only one series, and one that went 7 games. Sakic turned it up those playoffs and was awesome, they had a great team, but how or why should that shine negatively on Forsberg?

Here are a couple of more highly circumstantial arguments we can start using to dismiss other players:

Malkin and Crosby have collectively played in 8 final series, they've been sub-par in (at least if they're elite player, players with the ability to rise to the occasion, like Sakic) in 5 or 6 of those possible tries.

Crosby, the 2 time Smythe winner, has yet to lead the playoffs in scoring one single time, in 4 trips to the finals. (Obviously things could've been different if Malkin faced Z/Lids, or if he didn't miss a game in 2017. But this is what happend, so lets start questioning them Smythes even more right?)

I mean, they are true after all, just as the ones made about Forsberg, but it would be ridiculous to make major arguments around them.

Again this really has nothing to do with this thread.

People are already constantly using these exact arguments to downplay Malkin, and Crosby’s(especially Crosby) playoff performances. Yet I have never seen you try and dispel those arguments with the same passion that you are here with Forsberg.

Just an FYI Crosby did lead the playoffs in scoring in 2008.
 
Last edited:

Phil McKraken

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
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Sweden
I also don’t think “only scored 30 goals” is used to discredit Forsberg’s offense as it seem to showcase that he was not as well rounded of an offensive threat as the players he is compared to

It's kind of a cheap and purely technical argument though, about a player who would've scored over 30 several times if not for the fact that he only played one full season in the NHL.

At the same time, the above is also the main problem with Forsberg, even compared to Malkin. I have them pretty equal, but Malkin is healthier so I'd probably go with him for long term success.
 

K Fleur

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Mar 28, 2014
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It's kind of a cheap and purely technical argument though, about a player who would've scored over 30 several times if not for the fact that he only played one full season in the NHL.

At the same time, the above is also the main problem with Forsberg, even compared to Malkin. I have them pretty equal, but Malkin is healthier so I'd probably go with him for long term success.

A fair point.

Points all counts the same so it’s not an argument I really care about(despite bathdog’s attempt to pin it on me) either way.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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Let's see this poll. What was the criteria? Who were the players? What era did the play in? How many were polled?

What an ambiguous reference.


Of course Forseberg was good. But everyone's obsession is "what could have been if he ever stayed healthy..." Well, he didn't. Malkin is still in his prime and has already surpassed Forsberg's accolades.

I'm no Pens fan either, but this is not close.

You have literally provided nothing other than "it's not close", could it be that you don't really have a clue what you're talking about?
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,393
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Malkin has lead the playoffs in points twice and won the cup each time. (Plus another 20+ point finals run and an 18 point cup winning run with a bad shoulder).

Forsberg’s team didn’t even need him to play in the finals to win.

Forsberg scoring a bunch of points and getting bounced in the 3rd round trip is a cool trivia answer, but ultimately doesn’t mean much.

Either way if someone prefers Forsberg in the playoffs cool. It doesn’t really do much to close the gap in regular season performance.

Where is this huge gap in regular season performance though? Oh yeah, that doesn't exist either. I have no issue with someone taking Malkin but acting like it suddenly isn't close is ridiculous.
 

K Fleur

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Mar 28, 2014
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What kind of an argument is this? Gretzky's team won a Cup without him when he left...

I’ll do you one even better: Lemieux’s team won 3 cups after he retired!

Come back when you’re done being deliberately obtuse.
 

bathdog

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
920
157
I was not trying to dismiss Forsberg’s playoff performance. I was trying to show that Malkin’s playoff performance has been more essential to his team’s success. Forsberg’s team winning without him is a relatively small reason why I think Malkin is the better playoff performer.

Small reason? Seemed like the only reason presented in your argumentation.

Malkin has lead the playoffs in points twice and won the cup each time. (Plus another 20+ point finals run and an 18 point cup winning run with a bad shoulder).

Forsberg’s team didn’t even need him to play in the finals to win.

Forsberg scoring a bunch of points and getting bounced in the 3rd round trip is a cool trivia answer, but ultimately doesn’t mean much.

Either way if someone prefers Forsberg in the playoffs cool. It doesn’t really do much to close the gap in regular season performance.

Another way to phrase it would be like this? (It kind of is true, no?)

Malkin won 1 Cup with a great SCF performance, and 2 Cups average SCF performances (lets thank his team!).
Forsberg won 1 Cup with a great SCF performance, and 1 Cup while being unable to participate (lets thank his team!).

Obviously Malkin's 2009 run was much better than Forsberg's 96 run, but as you phrase it... scoring a bunch of points in 3 rounds is cool trivia...

I still don’t see how this is analogous to an “Ovechkin has never made it out of the 2nd round” argument. That is a massive blight on his otherwise stellar resume, especially in comparison to his contemporaries. Really has nothing to do with this thread though.

It really is in the traditional sense, but Ovechkin has done his part on more than one occasion. It's a popular argument to diminish his individual playoff performance.

I also don’t think “only scored 30 goals” is used to discredit Forsberg’s offense as it seem to showcase that he was not as well rounded of an offensive threat as the players he is compared to.

Ironically he's scoring goals at a higher pace than both Crosby and Malkin, while posting shooting percentages they could only dream of. There is a good argument to be made that the problem isn't that Forsberg wasn't well rounded enough, it's that he didn't shoot enough.

People are already constantly using these exact arguments to downplay Malkin, and Crosby’s(especially Crosby) playoff performances. Yet I have never seen you try and dispel those arguments with the same passion that you are here with Forsberg.

Perhaps they don't need it at this point in time? I sometimes play the devils advocate in Crosby threads just for argumentations sake, but I've spent my fair time defending him as well.

I already stated in my first post in this thread 'Forsberg fan vote Malkin', so all things equal I would've sided with Forsberg as a personal preference, but I also believe he was more impactful.

Just an FYI Crosby did lead the playoffs in scoring in 2008.

If ppg is the tie-breaker, yes.
If goals is the tie-breaker, no.
If winning the Cup is the tie-breaker, no.
If there is no tie-breaker, he tied for the lead.
 

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