Peter Forsberg vs. Evgeni Malkin

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by James Gryphon, Mar 11, 2018.

?

Who ranks higher in hockey history?

  1. Fan of Forsberg's team(s) voting Forsberg

    10.4%
  2. Fan of Malkin's team(s) voting Forsberg

    1.0%
  3. Neutral fan voting Forsberg

    26.4%
  4. Fan of Malkin's team(s) voting Malkin

    11.4%
  5. Fan of Forsberg's team(s) voting Malkin

    2.5%
  6. Neutral fan voting Malkin

    48.3%
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  1. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Well that's false because they wouldn't have got there without Crosby and no player single handedly wins a Stanley Cup, never has and never will happen.
     
  2. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Forsberg's playoff stats:

    The last two columns are +/- and penalty minutes.

    1516410717154163
    Malkin's:

    149589915717200
    On top of this the average goals per game in the playoffs in the late 90s and early 2000s was lower than at any point in Malkin's career so that would negate any argument about Forsberg having superior linemates which I would consider a legitimate point. Forsberg led the playoffs in points twice without even playing in the finals. Forsberg was also a minus player once in his playoff career compared to 4 times for Malkin. Any thoughts on this one?
     
  3. K Fleur

    K Fleur If You Know You Know

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    Malkin has lead the playoffs in points twice and won the cup each time. (Plus another 20+ point finals run and an 18 point cup winning run with a bad shoulder).

    Forsberg’s team didn’t even need him to play in the finals to win.

    Forsberg scoring a bunch of points and getting bounced in the 3rd round trip is a cool trivia answer, but ultimately doesn’t mean much.

    Either way if someone prefers Forsberg in the playoffs cool. It doesn’t really do much to close the gap in regular season performance.
     
  4. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    The regular season gap isn't that big. Malkin has a few more shortened seasons at a high level
     
  5. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    It's cute when people on here lament the "Forsberg obsession" on this board then proceed to show they have no clue about him as a player. Probably mostly those who've grown up during the post lockout era and have seen Malkin's place in the game regularly among the best. Except Forsberg was held to the same standard in his era
     
  6. K Fleur

    K Fleur If You Know You Know

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    Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself in assuming Malkin finishes this season strong (1-3 place in scoring).

    Forsberg has what 2 top 3 scoring finishes?

    If Malkin finishes the year strong he’ll have double that amount. Plus as you said he will also have a “few more high level shortened seasons”.
     
  7. crossbownerf

    crossbownerf Registered User

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    So you finally agree that I am right.

    Thabk you.
     
  8. bathdog

    bathdog Registered User

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    As been touched on, going to have to assume you're referring to runs when their team won the Cup.

    People generally don't wanna go into differences in Conferences either.

    It's really quite simple, it's not a completely ridiculous claim, but it's minority opinion.

    This is just another one of those 'Ovechkin never got out of the 2nd round' arguments. It just shows blatant ignorance.

    You realize Forsberg lead not only his team, but the entire playoffs in scoring at the time of his injury, including Lemiuex? The Avs probably don't win the Cup without him that year.
     
    authentic likes this.
  9. Syrinx

    Syrinx Scan It...

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    I don't understand people being so quick to take Forsberg in the playoffs. Yes he was a warrior. Malkin is one of the greatest playoff performers ever and had the best playoff run in the last 25 years.

    Most Points in One Playoff Season by NHL Players
     
  10. K Fleur

    K Fleur If You Know You Know

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    How are these arguments the same?


    I’m aware. You are aware his team did win in the finals without him?
     
  11. GoGoSens

    GoGoSens Registered User

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    Malkin will go down as a top ten center of all time.

    there is no debating this at all.

    I'd go as far to say he's equalled everything Crosby has done at this point and you can argue hes been just as dominate as Crobsy and OV.

    Plus add the fact he doesn't dissapear in the playoffs.

    I would rank him higher than Sakic and Yzerman at this point.

    He's going to go down as the best Russian Center of all time and possibly greatest Russian player ever.
     
  12. Jtown

    Jtown Registered User

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    oh my . You don't measure the success of individuals by their team.
     
  13. Nocashstyle

    Nocashstyle Registered User

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    Let's see this poll. What was the criteria? Who were the players? What era did the play in? How many were polled?

    What an ambiguous reference.


    Of course Forseberg was good. But everyone's obsession is "what could have been if he ever stayed healthy..." Well, he didn't. Malkin is still in his prime and has already surpassed Forsberg's accolades.

    I'm no Pens fan either, but this is not close.
     
  14. GoGoSens

    GoGoSens Registered User

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    Flawed statement.

    So Roy should not be given credit for being the greatest playoff goalie ever because its a team sport?

    A player stepping up and helping there "Team win" should have no merit on their career?
     
  15. bathdog

    bathdog Registered User

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    Because it's a statement that certain posters rely on heavily to dismiss his playoff performance. Another popular one is 'he never even scored 30 goals' to dismiss his offensive ability.

    While both are true, they're circumstantial, and there are reasons behind them. It's only one series, and one that went 7 games. Sakic turned it up those playoffs and was awesome, they had a great team, but how or why should that shine negatively on Forsberg?

    Here are a couple of more highly circumstantial arguments we can start using to dismiss other players:

    Malkin and Crosby have collectively played in 8 final series, they've been sub-par in (at least if they're elite player, players with the ability to rise to the occasion, like Sakic) in 5 or 6 of those possible tries.

    Crosby, the 2 time Smythe winner, has yet to lead the playoffs in scoring one single time, in 4 trips to the finals. (Obviously things could've been different if Malkin faced Z/Lids, or if he didn't miss a game in 2017. But this is what happend, so lets start questioning them Smythes even more right?)

    I mean, they are true after all, just as the ones made about Forsberg, but it would be ridiculous to make major arguments around them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  16. K Fleur

    K Fleur If You Know You Know

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    I was not trying to dismiss Forsberg’s playoff performance. I was trying to show that Malkin’s playoff performance has been more essential to his team’s success. Forsberg’s team winning without him is a relatively small reason why I think Malkin is the better playoff performer.

    I still don’t see how this is analogous to an “Ovechkin has never made it out of the 2nd round” argument. That is a massive blight on his otherwise stellar resume, especially in comparison to his contemporaries. Really has nothing to do with this thread though.

    I also don’t think “only scored 30 goals” is used to discredit Forsberg’s offense as it seem to showcase that he was not as well rounded of an offensive threat as the players he is compared to.

    Again this really has nothing to do with this thread.

    People are already constantly using these exact arguments to downplay Malkin, and Crosby’s(especially Crosby) playoff performances. Yet I have never seen you try and dispel those arguments with the same passion that you are here with Forsberg.

    Just an FYI Crosby did lead the playoffs in scoring in 2008.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  17. MrJonas

    MrJonas Ekblades of Steel

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    It's kind of a cheap and purely technical argument though, about a player who would've scored over 30 several times if not for the fact that he only played one full season in the NHL.

    At the same time, the above is also the main problem with Forsberg, even compared to Malkin. I have them pretty equal, but Malkin is healthier so I'd probably go with him for long term success.
     
  18. K Fleur

    K Fleur If You Know You Know

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    A fair point.

    Points all counts the same so it’s not an argument I really care about(despite bathdog’s attempt to pin it on me) either way.
     
  19. Flamesss

    Flamesss Registered User

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    Fan of Malkin, voted for Forsberg. It's bloody close though.
     
  20. Habs 4 Life

    Habs 4 Life No Excuses

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    I loved Forsberg, but give me Geno
    Malkin is such a ****ing beast
     
  21. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    You have literally provided nothing other than "it's not close", could it be that you don't really have a clue what you're talking about?
     
  22. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    What kind of an argument is this? Gretzky's team won a Cup without him when he left...
     
  23. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Where is this huge gap in regular season performance though? Oh yeah, that doesn't exist either. I have no issue with someone taking Malkin but acting like it suddenly isn't close is ridiculous.
     
  24. K Fleur

    K Fleur If You Know You Know

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    I’ll do you one even better: Lemieux’s team won 3 cups after he retired!

    Come back when you’re done being deliberately obtuse.
     
  25. bathdog

    bathdog Registered User

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    Small reason? Seemed like the only reason presented in your argumentation.

    Another way to phrase it would be like this? (It kind of is true, no?)

    Malkin won 1 Cup with a great SCF performance, and 2 Cups average SCF performances (lets thank his team!).
    Forsberg won 1 Cup with a great SCF performance, and 1 Cup while being unable to participate (lets thank his team!).

    Obviously Malkin's 2009 run was much better than Forsberg's 96 run, but as you phrase it... scoring a bunch of points in 3 rounds is cool trivia...

    It really is in the traditional sense, but Ovechkin has done his part on more than one occasion. It's a popular argument to diminish his individual playoff performance.

    Ironically he's scoring goals at a higher pace than both Crosby and Malkin, while posting shooting percentages they could only dream of. There is a good argument to be made that the problem isn't that Forsberg wasn't well rounded enough, it's that he didn't shoot enough.

    Perhaps they don't need it at this point in time? I sometimes play the devils advocate in Crosby threads just for argumentations sake, but I've spent my fair time defending him as well.

    I already stated in my first post in this thread 'Forsberg fan vote Malkin', so all things equal I would've sided with Forsberg as a personal preference, but I also believe he was more impactful.

    If ppg is the tie-breaker, yes.
    If goals is the tie-breaker, no.
    If winning the Cup is the tie-breaker, no.
    If there is no tie-breaker, he tied for the lead.
     

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