Pete Green - Top 10 Coach All Time? Try Top 5

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"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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Not a lot was known about Pete Green, the legendary Ottawa coach who won SC titles with Ottawa in 1920, 1921 and 1923.

We know he coached the Ottawa Silver Seven from around 1909 through 1913 with titles in 09 and 11. We just don't know how involved his coaching was or the impact he had as a bench boss in a time where information on coaching is very sparse.

There is some reason to believe, although I'm still digging on this aspect, that he was involved more than ever thought with the beginning of the Silver Seven dynasty which saw titles in 4 consecutive years from 1903-1906. He had been previously listed as trainer and while there is no distinct coach named during these years, it would seem he got his start under Alf Smith and learned the ropes from him. In 1900 Green was already considered one of the greatest trainers in all of Canada in lacrosse and football and seems to have gotten into hockey around 1902-03.

Well, thanks for a Newspapers.com subscription and a lot of late nights, I've unearthed A MOUNTAIN of evidence that suggests Pete Green is, very, very underrated.

Just how underrated is obviously open for discussion but when you factor in he was given full control over 2 distinctive dynastic periods (like Toe Blake for example) in Ottawa, what I've unearthed in regards to player and other coaches testimonies, as well as game reports and other interesting articles, you'd be hard pressed, IMO, to consider anyone not named Bowman, Blake and Arbour as concretely superior coaches.

Players like King Clancy and Jack Darragh specifically mention it was Green who molded them into the hockey players they became. Percy Leseuer said those early era Ottawa teams looked up to Green in any moments of crisis and everyone thought he was an amazing coach. Tommy Gorman wouldn't have had a career in hockey without Green bringing him along. Lester Patrick praised Green. His tactics and innovations were many and the NHL even made rules to counter his defensive brilliance in the early 1920's. This was not a man who simply "opened the door" so players could enter/leave the ice.

If we break the hockey universe down into eras, Green is so far and away the best pre consolidation coach of all time which is a period that saw, more than 3 decades of pro level hockey. It's a longer period than the 06 era, post expansion, or the DPE. Green coached/beat players like Frank Nighbor, Cyclone Taylor, Newsy Lalonde, just to name a few of the high caliber HOF'ers.

Very proud of this work. I hope you all enjoy.

PETE GREEN

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COACHING RECORD - 1ST TIME WITH OTTAWA (1909-1913)


1909:
10-2 (1st in ECAHA - 4 teams)
117 Goals For - 1st in league, +35 ahead of 2nd
63 Goals Against -2nd in league, -2 behind 1st
SC CHAMPIONS

1910:
9-3 (2nd in NHA - 7 teams)
89 GF - 3rd in league, -7 behind 1st
66 GA - 3rd in league, -25 behind 1st
CO-SC CHAMPIONS
Def Gault 15-4 over 2 games during 1st SC challenge
Def Edmonton 21-11 over 2 games during 2nd SC challenge
Lost Cup to Wanderers who won NHA regular season title


1911:
13-3 (1st in NHA - 5 teams)
122 GF - 1st in league, +31 ahead of 2nd
69 GA - 2nd in league, -7 behind 2nd
O'BRIEN TROPHY (NHA TITLE)

SC CHAMPIONS

1912:
9-9 (T2nd in NHA - 4 teams)
99 GF - 1st in league, +4 ahead of 2nd
83 GA - 3rd in league, -17 behind 1st

1913:
9-11 (T3rd in NHA - 6 teams)
87 GF - 3rd in league, -25 behind 1st
81 GA - T2nd in league, -6 behind 1st


TOTALS:
50-28 - .641 W%
514 GF
362 GA
+152



COACHING RECORD - 2ND TIME WITH OTTAWA (1920-1925)


1920:
19-5 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
121 Goals For - 2nd in league, -8 behind 1st
64 Goals Against - 1st in league, +42 ahead of 2nd
SC CHAMPIONS (Won 7 game series vs Seattle 4-3)

1921:
14-10 (2nd in NHL - 4 teams)
97 GF - 3rd in league, -15 behind 1st
75 GA - 1st in league, +24 ahead of 2nd
SC CHAMPIONS (Won 5 game series vs Vancouver 3-2)

1922:
14-8-2 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
106 GF - 1st in league, +8 ahead of 2nd
84 GA - 1st in league, +13 ahead of 2nd
LOST IN NHA PLAYOFF (Toronto)

1923:
14-9-1 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
77 GF - 3rd in league, -5 behind 1st
54 GA - 1st in league, +7 ahead of 2nd
WON IN NHA PLAYOFF (Montreal)
SC CHAMPIONS (Won 5 game series vs Vancouver 3-1)


1924:
16-8 (1st in NHL - 4 teams)
74 GF - 1st in league, +11 ahead of 2nd
54 GA - 2nd in league, -6 behind 1st
LOST IN NHA PLAYOFF (Montreal)

1925:
17-12-1 (4th in NHL - 6 teams)
83 GF - 4th in league, -10 behind 1st
66 GA - 4th in league, -10 behind 1st
NO POSTSEASON​


TOTALS:
94-52-4 - .627 W%
558 GF
397 GA
+161



GRAND TOTAL CAREER RECORD:

144-80-4 - .632 W%
(Just barely behind Toe Blake and vastly ahead of Lester Patrick, Tommy Gorman, Cecil Hart, etc)

GF - 1,072

GA - 759

+313

5 TIME SC CHAMPION (1909, 1911, 1920, 1921, 1923)

1 CO-SC CHAMPION (1910)





CHRONOLOGICAL CAREER RESUME, NOTES, TESTIMONIES, STORIES, ETC.




18 Jan 1908, 16 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

In January 1908 Green noted as former Ottawa hockey coach. Until now, we assumed he didn't start coaching hockey until 1909.

Notes the speed of Bowie, Russell, Gilmour of the Montreal Vics.

Says Cyclone Taylor one of the best players in hockey and notes that Marty Walsh will compare favorably to Frank McGee. I'd say he got that, along with many other things right.


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14 Nov 1908, 2 - The Gazette at Newspapers.com

Pete Green introduced as coach in 1908. Given full control over roster decisions.

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14 Dec 1909, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green in charge again.

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4 Jan 1910, 4 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green being praised for personnel/lineup decisions.

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26 Jan 1910, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green called one of the best all around sporting authorities. Not just in hockey but lacrosse and football as well.

Pete's system noted as a secret to his success noting he has taken 2nd rate teams and transformed them into winners.

Knows hockey "from A to Z".


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23 Jan 1912, 10 - The Gazette at Newspapers.com

Really neat piece showing Pete Green suggesting that reserve players be allowed to remain indoors while waiting to enter the game. Not only that but he suggests a system where an electronic bell is used to signal a player into the game. Wired from the timers box. Man was an innovator through and through.


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28 Nov 1912, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

According to Percy Leseuer, Green is who all the players consider to be the best coach and the person they look to in a crisis. Speaks volumes.

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29 Nov 1912, Page 4 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

Green named Manager, given full control of team.

Also this year he will not be allowed to use a megaphone fro the sidelines. Pretty neat tidbit.


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10 Dec 1912, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green calling Ottawa players to practice during first run as Sens coach.

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Ottawa Citizen - Google News Archive Search
Jan61913

Green's early era Sens defensive system unveiled. Noted to make strategy based on what other team was doing.

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3 Feb 1913, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green tactics change. Has team play extremely physical, with big time checking all over the ice.

Green showing use of spares effectively.

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3 Dec 1919, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Pete Green beginning his 2nd stint with Ottawa which would bring about a new dynasty. This is fantastic piece illustrating the respect Green had. And control over personnel decisions, strategy, etc.

Noted as knowing all players in the league to perfection and possessing foxy methods.

Also worked closely with then Captain Eddie Gerard to make sure he and the team were in harmony.

Jack Darragh, yet another player who attribute his success as a young player to Green's tutelage.


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3 Dec 1919, Page 16 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

Ottawa Journal piece.

Green resumes his coaching career with Ottawa in 1919-20.

Full and total control over team.

Noted he didn't want players drinking during the season.


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5 Dec 1919, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green running practices. Noted to run the team hard for an hour.

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12 Dec 1919, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green more practice time.

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19 Dec 1919, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green putting the team through a practice.

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24 Dec 1919, 10 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green noted as using his reserve players to fantastic results. Noted strategy used within game.


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29 Dec 1919, 10 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green strategies noted. Also very cool to see him again using subs frequently to keep men fresh and it didn't impact the effectiveness of the team.

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3 Apr 1920, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green apparently wired the fans and supporters a promise to win the SC. And they did!

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18 Dec 1920, 22 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green setting special practices up to prepare for grueling match.

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22 Jan 1921, 14 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

NHL tries to invent new rules to stop Green's kitty bar the door system.

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27 Jan 1921, Page 12 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

George Vezina praises Pete Green's defensive system in a neat interview
.

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8 Jan 1923, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com
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Green showing good coaching judgement and taking into consideration multiple factors when making a personal decision.
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22 Sep 1934, Page 22 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

More credit to his systems.

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22 Sep 1934, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green discovered and trained King Clancy who describes Green as a "man of dynamic engery with the faculty of getting the best out of every player without appearing to drive the team".

Noted as a great strategist and tactician.


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24 Sep 1934, Page 17 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

Tommy Gorman and Lester Patrick were incredibly influenced by Green. Gorman in particular noted he only got his start in hockey because of Green.

Noted he scouted and found Sprague Cleghorn. Developed from the lower city leagues King Clancy who spoke very highly of Green. Discovered Lionel Hitchmen.

When Cleghorn went down he shifted Gerard from C back to D proving to be right about another personnel decision.

Green noted as a positive minded coach who was dipolmatic in dealing with his players.

Incredibly respected by everyone, even the brash Newsy Lalonde.


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24 Sep 1934, 12 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green gets glowing remarks. Not only was he an expert hockey coach he was highly regarded in lacrosse and football. Intimate knowledge of all 3 games.

Highly respected outside of Ottawa as well. Toronto mentioned.

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22 Sep 1934, 19 - The Windsor Star at Newspapers.com

Windsor paper.
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22 Sep 1934, 25 - The Province at Newspapers.com

Green's noted as famous Ottawa coach by the Vancouver Province paper.


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22 Sep 1934, 1 - Edmonton Journal at Newspapers.com

Death in the Edmonton Journal.


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22 Sep 1934, 14 - Star-Phoenix at Newspapers.com

Saskatoon.


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22 Sep 1934, Page 21 - The Winnipeg Tribune at Newspapers.com

Winnipeg

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ODDS AND ENDS:


27 Jun 1908, 17 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Fantastic piece on how Green goes about scouting for Lacrosse players and how difficult it is to build a player into the optimal performer.

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9 Mar 1903, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

1903 Green taking care of injuries.



30 Dec 1902, 6 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green and Alf Smith overseeing a Senators practice. This is 1902.




ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BELOW (BECAUSE I HAD MORE THAN 50 PICTURES):




Ottawa Citizen - 01 Dec 1900


1 Dec 1900, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

-Not hockey related but it's interesting to note that in 1900 he was already considered the greatest athletic trainer in Canada. Also noted that he was a master of discipline and was popular with his players.

TRAINER "PETE" GREEN

"To Trainer Peter Green much credit is due for the success of the Rough Riders this season. Long experience in handling men for athletic contests has made Pete a past-master in the art and his work this season cannot be too highly commended. He has had the distinction of handling two teams which have won Canadian championships, viz, the Capital lacrosse team and the Rough Rider footballers. Pete is a master of discipline and this specialty enables him to keep the boys well under control. He is popular with the members of the club and can lay just claim to the title of being the greatest trainer in Canada."



Ottawa Citizen - 02 Dec 1910

2 Dec 1910, Page 4 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

-Referee misses a train and all hell nearly breaks loose! Click link to read entire piece.

SUGGESTION OF PETE GREEN AS REFEREE NEARLY CAUSED A RIOT



Ottawa Citizen - 15 Dec 1910

15 Dec 1910, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

-Green named coach by unanimous choice. Noted as being a general favorite with the players and called "hockey general with unlimited experience".

PETE GREEN AS MANAGER.

After the announcement that Lesueur, Ronan, Shore, Gaul, Kerr, Ridpath and Walsh had been signed, thus given the Ottawas an excellent team even without Lake and Stuart the question of coach was taken up. Pete Green being the unanimous choice. Petie has done very good work in rounding up the players and as he is a general favorite with the boys and a hockey general of unlimited experience, the club with certainly be congratulated on its move in closing with him.



Ottawa Citizen - 13 Dec 1912


13 Dec 1912, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

-In 1909 Green's coaching efforts pay off with Cyclone Taylor. Teaches Taylor the advantages to passing and defense.

In 1909 he had his greatest season at hockey and it was chiefly because Green kept coaching him on the necessity of passing the puck and blocking the man, that the Cyclone was so useful.



Ottawa Journal - Mar 10 1914

10 Mar 1914, Page 4 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

-Not exactly sure what team is being referenced here (somebody feel free to chime in) but I thought it was important to note that Green was thought of by Lester Patrick as someone who would be of help.

Petie Green will probably coach the Victoria team in the world's series games in the six man games they play. Petie knows the NHA style proxy thoroughly and Lester Patrick figures he could help them a lot. It is the general opinion among local players that Victoria will walk away with the silverware.



Ottawa Journal - 04 Dec 1919

4 Dec 1919, Page 16 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

-What is telling is that in 1919 they are referencing the title winning methods he developed in years past which would line up with earlier material i found talking about how his tactics were designed and carried out. During the Silver Seven days.


"Petie Green Bubbling Pep and Enthusiasm"

Petie Green was bustling around yesterday with Cosy Dolan getting the paraphernalia and dressing rooms fixed up. Petie is eager to be at work and wants to turn out a winner. The championship methods he developed in former days haven't deserted him and Petie was sprouting with enthusiasm.



Ottawa Journal - 14 Feb 1922

14 Feb 1922, Page 14 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

-Superstitions nearly 100 years old. I believe they call Ottawa an oasis!

Petie Green will carry the horseshoe that adorns the Ottawa door in his vest pocket; he will line his hip pocket with rabbit' gallopers and promises to wear a four-leaf clover pinned to his tie. With all these luck magnets the Ottawas should get an even break at any rate. They will have a socre of supporters in their train, and are sure of plenty of support from McGill students and Ottawa residents in the oasis.



Montreal Gazette - 06 Apr 1923

6 Apr 1923, 16 - The Gazette at Newspapers.com

Gold Watches to Be Given Ottawa Hockey Players

It was announced tonight that the sum of $1,015 had been collected with which to purchase souvenirs for the members of the Ottawa Senators, hockey champions of the world. Gold watches will be purchased and presented at the banquet Monday night. Teh watches with be suitably engraved and the recipients will be the ten players, Petie Green, coach, and Cozy Dolan, trainer.



Ottawa Journal - 15 Apr 1961

15 Apr 1961, Page 13 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

-One of two articles years later that show it was Pete Green who switched Cyclone Taylor to defensemen in Ottawa with obviously positive results.

Mr. Bate said some of the directors were discouraged when Taylor worked out as a forward in Ottawa...Then the late Petie Green, then coaching, insisted Taylor try the defense...Taylor turned on his amazing speed and wasn't long convincing the club he was at home.



Ottawa Journal - 26 Apr 1968

26 Apr 1968, Page 25 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

-Really cool interview with an 83 year old Cyclone Taylor who just happens to confirm the bit above about Green being the one who switched him to the back end in Ottawa. (I didn't type out the entire interview but click the link. Should go right to it on page 25)

He (Cyclone Taylor) smiled:

"I guess that was true. The Silver Seven players were playing out their string in Ottawa when I arrived. They put me on the forward line in workouts and I guess they felt I was messing up the attack. I was blessed with skating ability and it didn't work well for a time.

Then Petie Green a noted trainer and coach, suggested I play defence. I was used as a defencemen in the opening game against Montreal Wanderers.

"We scored eight goals against Montreal. I got four of them and I was with the club for two years until I got the invitation to go to Renfrew.


Part of the deal for me to come to Ottawa was to get me a job in the government. They were pretty persuasive and made me feel that I might wind up as prime minister".


Much, much more to come............
 

Johnny Engine

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Jul 29, 2009
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Ok, we're going to restart this discussion.
Any litigation of the All-Time Draft game, how it should be played, and who's got the best roster should go in the ATD assasination threads on that sub-board.
Any discussion of whether the historical record supports Pete Green as a top-5, 10, or 500 coach goes here.

Thank you!
 
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ImporterExporter

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I will lay out my assertion for Green to be as high as top 5 over the weekend. When you factor in record, innovation (very important), impact he had on players/coaches, that the league literally designed ways to stop his nearly unbeatable tactics, and what contemporaries said about him and then cross reference it with coaches not named Bowman, Blake, Arbour, and I'll say Tarasov, you can absolutely make a case for Green to get to the level I'm talking about.

It will take time. But I'm happy to have done the work necessary.
 

Theokritos

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Great work on the research. I'm not quite sure where exactly it puts Green among coaches in the history of the game, but it should definitely serve to move him up the ladder. @Dreakmur and @BenchBrawl seem to have read some of the same sources over the last two years, but this is the most extensive presentation here so far. Thanks a lot for that.

Now we're much closer to answer Sturminator's question:

I just want to know, in reference to that Senators dynasty, what Pete Green actually did.
 
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sr edler

gold is not reality
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Pete Green, or at least early Pete Green I should say, comes across as more of trainer than a coach to me. It's possible he evolved into something else though. He looks like someone running physical education though at a school somewhere, someone everyone's scared to death of.

Those turn of the century Ottawa H/C teams had Alf Smith, who himself was a high profile coach on many different teams. I think at the time the lines were somewhat blurred. Teams coached themselves a lot. Those New Edinburghs teams, later in the 1910s, also had a guy named David Gill.

I like Ralph Winsor myself for his systems. He played himself and layed it out early. I guess there were some overlaps from intercollegiate rugby there too, both in Canada and the US.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
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Great work on the research. I'm not quite sure where exactly it puts Green among coaches in the history of the game, but it should definitely serve to move him up the ladder. @Dreakmur and @BenchBrawl seem to have read some of the same sources over the last two years, but this is the most extensive presentation here so far. Thanks a lot for that.

Now we're much closer to answer Sturminator's question:

Thanks Theo.

I was always under the impression that Green was thought of much more of a trainer in the first dynasty years and then morphed into what we would consider a more modern type coach int he 20's.

However, I was quite pleased to find pretty darn hard evidence his defensive systems and tactics were in full force during his first run as coach. In 1913, talking about Green's "double defense" system which was basically keeping a F high at most times for defensive posture. In those days you saw different people on the F line being talked about in that role, whereas in the 1920's the system was built around Frank Nighbor.

The contemporary praise, especially by players like King Clancy, Jack Darragh and Percy Leseuer were striking for me. This wasn't a man who just watched players skate around a rink while hollering encouragement.

Edit: Given the record, innovation and contemporary praise I couldn't put him behind somebody like Fred Shero who had successes in a much more condensed period of time. We now now know Green impacted the game from an x's and o's standpoint to the point where the league created ways to make him obsolete. He was a noted favorite of players, highly respected. Found and developed numerous HOF'ers.

Pete Green, or at least early Pete Green I should say, comes across as more of trainer than a coach to me. It's possible he evolved into something else though. He looks like someone running physical education though at a school somewhere, someone everyone's scared to death of.

Those turn of the century Ottawa H/C teams had Alf Smith, who himself was a high profile coach on many different teams. I think at the time the lines were somewhat blurred. Teams coached themselves a lot. Those New Edinburghs teams, later in the 1910s, also had a guy named David Gill.

I like Ralph Winsor myself for his systems. He played himself and layed it out early. I guess there were some overlaps from intercollegiate rugby there too, both in Canada and the US.

As I said above, if you thoroughly read everything, it's very difficult to come to the conclusion that Green was a trainer and not actually a coach considering there are hard articles detailing his role as a coach, in game strategies, testimonies, etc. That used to be the narrative but I'd say that will be changing for a lot of folks.
 

ImporterExporter

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I thought the part about him, one, being the guy who turned Cyclone Taylor into a defensemen to utilize his incredible speed from the back end, but also coaching up Taylor on the benefits of passing and defensive play, was pretty awesome. It's those little details that help define an impact of a coach and considering most of this information is more than a century old, is pretty darn cool.

I can't tell you how many awesome pictures one can find as well when you look through those old time papers.
 

tarheelhockey

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I don't see any support at all for the idea that he was primarily just an athletic trainer.

Right there in the posted articles, you can see his executive influence not just over physical conditioning, but also over personnel decisions and strategy. The LeSueuer interview specifically mentions Green's presence in the dressing room. The bit about the megaphone is a direct reference to Green's role in calling substitutes and rearranging the players' formation on the ice.

Experimentation with strategic use of substitutes, and especially with moving players back to "double defense" and "bar the door" positions, influenced the development of the sport on a profound level and led to fundamental rule changes to make the sport more marketable (comparable to Jacques Lemaire's influence). Green's idea to have subs sit in a back room and call them to the ice with an electric bell was tried out in 1917-18 (it's mentioned in the "Miscellaneous" section here).

Putting together a top-X list of coaches is as subjective as it gets. But I do think you've laid out a good case here for Green as one of the frontrunners for "best of pre-WWII" based on coaching two separate dynasties and especially for his personal influence over the conceptual direction of the sport. The development of the Sens' defensive system is arguably the biggest single coaching achievement until Odie Cleghorn (et al) started using set forward lines.
 
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ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
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I don't see any support at all for the idea that he was primarily just an athletic trainer.

Right there in the posted articles, you can see his executive influence not just over physical conditioning, but also over personnel decisions and strategy. The LeSueuer interview specifically mentions Green's presence in the dressing room. The bit about the megaphone is a direct reference to Green's role in calling substitutes and rearranging the players' formation on the ice.

Experimentation with strategic use of substitutes, and especially with moving players back to "double defense" and "bar the door" positions, influenced the development of the sport on a profound level and led to fundamental rule changes to make the sport more marketable (comparable to Jacques Lemaire's influence). Green's idea to have subs sit in a back room and call them to the ice with an electric bell was tried out in 1917-18 (it's mentioned in the "Miscellaneous" section here).

Putting together a top-X list of coaches is as subjective as it gets. But I do think you've laid out a good case here for Green as one of the frontrunners for "best of pre-WWII" based on coaching two separate dynasties and especially for his personal influence over the conceptual direction of the sport. The development of the Sens' defensive system is arguably the biggest single coaching achievement until Odie Cleghorn (et al) started using set forward lines.

Thanks sir.

Honestly, I was not expecting to find near the amount I did in regards to the concepts and tactics developed and deployed by Green. In the age of so many advanced stats we can get caught up in the numbers which are quickly referenced and relatively, in most cases, easy for people to compute. This can especially be true of coaches, in large part because we just don't see the amount of information to digest, relative to players. And the further you go back in time the harder it can be to obtain pertinent information.

With that being said, there are, as you pointed out, so many articles and sources that describe Green's innovations, be it X's and O's or how he handled his players and what they thought of him as a coach and person. And THAT to me is such a huge part to determining a coaches value. Green was personally responsible for finding/coaching up numerous HOF'ers, including some sterling names.

And if you're more focused on the statistical portion, his resume speaks for itself.

He took over a team in 1909 that had gone a few years since their last Cup and Ottawa promptly dominated the league. We now know the ahead of their time defensive tactics were already being experimented with and deployed during his original run with the Silver Seven. Use of subs in the early era to keep players fresh.

And then he comes back in the winter of 1919, after the Senators hadn't won the Cup since he last coached (1911) and again, promptly leads the Senators to a title, playing in a legendary 7 game series vs Seattle in early 1920.

King Clancy's testimony is very telling. Not just talking about how Green discovered and developed Clancy but that he was a "man of dynamic energy with the faculty of getting the best out of every player without appearing to drive the team".

His style reads a lot like Toe Blake IMO. Not only did both coach 2 distinctive dynasties, but each dynasty was unique in that one was more offensive in nature and the other, slanted towards defensive posture. Blake was a hard nosed coach but someone who had the pulse of his players and got the best out of most of the clubs he coached. Green was shown to be a coach who wanted his players to be on the straight and narrow during the season but was also noted as a favorite of the players more than once and someone who was universally respected. Clancy and Leseuer both speak frankly about the impact Green had in the dressing room, which was one of the many highlights for me. We're talking about 100+ year old information in some instances. It's fortunate we have these old time papers preserved.

Obviously, the reason you're not going to get Green on the level of a Bowman or Blake is both of those men have superior coaching records, in deeper and more conformed era's. And the both had extensive impacts on tactical aspects of hockey, although I will say Green is not a fish out of water head to head in that department. His pioneering of trap based tactics is substantial. Then there are player developments and other coaching/management bullet points. Green's impact beyond just wins and losses is not difficult to find.

I'd have a hard time putting Green on Arbour's level in the short term, mainly because Arbour really took an expansion team and molded it into a dynasty, in a more modern era. 4 straight Cups hasn't happened but a few times in history.

Tarasov would be a very interesting comparison in that they were both pioneers as far as coaching and concepts went in their respective countries. The building of rosters, player development and relations. And then obviously on ice results.

Once you get into the Lester Patrick's, Hap Day's, etc, you see coaches who were certainly innovators in different ways. In Day's case he coached a dynasty in the early 06 era. 5 Cups in total and obviously post consolidation titles would carry more overall value, than pre 1927 versions. Patrick won a pair of Cups and was a huge influence on the game from many angles. But I also feel like Patrick had some teams in NY when the Cook-Boucher-Cook line was prominent that underachieved. Consequently, he also took some Ranger squads and went and above and beyond.

Then you have other names, like Shero, Irvin, Sather, Quenville, Hart. Coaches, IMO, who fall into the next tier below Day/Patrick.

It will be an interesting discussion to have and I hope folks are interested in it.
 
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Lester Patrick (click for bio by TDMM from ATD2012)


Record with Vancouver/Victoria: 1919-1926:



1918-19: (player coach)

7-13 (3rd in PCHA - 3 teams)
44 Goals For - Last in league, -28 behind 1st
81 Goals Against - Last in league, -26 behind 1st

1919-20:
10-12 (3rd in PCHA - 3 teams)
57 GF - Last in league, -18 behind 1st
71 GA - Last in league, -16 behind 1st

1920-21:
10-13-1 (3rd in PCHA - 3 teams)
72 GF - Last in league, -14 behind 1st
88 GA - Last in league, -20 behind 1st

1921-22:

11-21-1 (3rd in PCHA - 3 teams)
61 GF - Last in league, -16 behind 1st
71 GA - Last in league, -7 behind 1st

1922-23:
16-13 (2nd in PCHA - 3 teams)
89 GF - Last in league, -23 behind 1st
81 GA - 1st in league, +1 ahead of 2nd
LOST TO VANCOUVER IN PCHA PLAYOFF (Vancouver won 5-3 over 2 games on aggregation)

1923-24:
11-18-1 (3rd in PCHA - 3 teams)
78 GF - Last in league, -9 behind 1st
103 GA - Last in league, -23 behind 1st

1924-25: (first year in WCHL)
16-12 (3rd in WCHL - 6 teams)
84 GF - Last in league, -18 behind 1st
63 GA - 1st in league, +12 ahead of 1st
WON WCHL PLAYOFF (2 GAME SERIES) VS SASTAKTON
WON WCHL FINAL (2 GAME SERIES VS CALGARY
SC CHAMPIONS (ONLY TEAM FROM WCHL TO EVER WIN SC)


1925-26:
15-11-4 (3rd in WCHL - 6 teams)
68 GF - 5th in league, +4 head of last
53 GA - 1st in league + 11 ahead of 2nd
WON WCHL PLAYOFF (2 GAME SERIES) VS SASKATOON
WON WCHL FINAL (2 GAME SERIES) VS EDMONTON
LOST SC FINAL (MONTREAL MAROONS)



TOTALS FOR VICTORIA PORTION OF PATRICK'S CAREER (1919-1926):

96 WINS

113 LOSSES

7 TIES

.459 W%

553 GF

611 GA

-58

1 SC CHAMPIONSHIP (1925)

1 RUNNER UP (1926)

MISSED PLAYOFFS 5 OF 8 SEASONS


Overview:

Context is needed when evaluating Lester Patrick's coaching resume out west. The overall record looks rather ordinary on the surface but one has to remember that Victoria was almost always playing with far less talent than the other teams in the league. This is especially true of the goalie position and I find it interesting that Patrick finally started seeing legit successes when A, the PCHA folded and B, they finally attracted a star goaltender, Hap Holmes (1925 and 26) to backstop the team.

I certainly wouldn't write home that this was a legendary coaching job. It's certainly better than the record indicates and Patrick should get plus marks for continuing to improve a team that began severely over matched in the PCHA.

The title win over Montreal deserves big praise considering on paper the Habs had much better talent, though one has to remember that Morenz, Joliat and Mantha were basically just beginning their pro careers so this wasn't a prime Habs squad that we saw win back to back Cups in 29-30. But either way, Victoria beating Montreal represents a pretty big upset IMO.



TOTALS FOR NEW YORK PORTION OF PATRICK'S CAREER (1926-39):




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LEAGUE WIDE WINS/LOSSES: 1926-27 THROUGH 1938-39

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LEAGUE WIDE GOALS FOR/AGAINST: 1926-27 THROUGH 1938-39
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LEAGUE WIDE GOALS AGAINST: 1926-27 THROUGH 1938-39

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LEAGUE WIDE PLAYOFF WINS/LOSSES: 1926-27 THROUGH 1938-39
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Overview:

A few things stick out for me.

-Playoffs in 12 of 13 years. Elite consistency.

-Took the Rangers to the Finals 5 times in 13 years, winning twice. Elite all time? Not quite IMO. But still very good.

-The bio mentions the Rangers were juggernauts offensively. I don't see it. Top 3 in GF 8 times out of 13, but 1st only once. Again, very good but not elite in any all time sense. And they had one of the all time greatest forward lines in hockey history, playing an aggressive offensive style.

-The Rangers were pretty average defensively until the last few seasons when you saw the winding down and departure of Bill Cook. Not shocking to see a more defensive posture taken given the dwindling talent at F.

-While I think the regular season resume has been overrated in the past, Patrick should earn strong marks as the Rangers generally met or exceeded expectations. A few hiccups to be sure, but all coaches have those if they're in the game long enough.



COMBINED RECORD (VICTORIA + NY)

377-329-114 (21 seasons)

3 CHAMPIONSHIPS (1925, 28, 33)

4 RUNNER UPS (1926, 29, 32, 37)




Overview:

His record as a coach is very good.

Victoria's timeline saw a team that was over matched to varying degrees but gradually improved over time and capped off the first coaching stint for Patrick with a title and runner up finish. This is more impressive than the record indicates on the surface. It's not legendary but don't think the losing record is indicative of the job done overall.

His run with NY was strong. Those teams made the postseason all but one year, with 2 titles over 5 finals appearances.

I don't think they're quite the offensive dynamos the old bio and lure would have you believe.

I don't know if you can even say the Rangers were the best team in the NHL over the time period. No team was able to really grab that title once the Senators dynasty ended. It was a hodgepodge of teams winning over this period.


Separating Coaching resume vs many creations/changes made to the game itself from a rules/administrative standpoint.


I think some may have conflated what Lester (and his brother) brought forth to the game of hockey from a rules standpoint vs what he did behind the bench as a coach. I think this is going to be the most important aspect to dive into with Patrick because a lot of the major bullet points here aren't directly related to coaching. See below for the major rules brought forth by Patrick.

  • Numbered Jerseys
  • Blue Lines
  • Penalty Shots
  • Allowing of goalies to leave their feet to make a save
  • Allowing of players to kick the puck
  • Rewarded assists on goals
  • "On the fly" line changes (when?)
  • Encourage rushing defensemen (when?)
  • Inaugurated a farm team system
  • Devised a profitable playoff system which is now used universally

If you're looking at the chief architects of modern hockey Lester Patrick and his brother are the men you can point to. From that standpoint alone they deserve an entire room at the HOF.

I'd like to see more information gathered and processed as it pertained to Patrick's role as a coach and what he did as far as innovations go with X's and O's, using different tactics, coaching style, etc.

He was a noted inspirational speaker and motivator. Strict coach regarding curfews/drinking, much like Pete Green here. But like Green, neither seemed to be Punch Imlach types at all who would berate and treat the players like slaves.

We know he likely brought forth the first short shift, using subs effectively (not first to do this though) worked with players individually, coaching them up. Given Patrick's reputation and length of coaching career I'm sure there is much more to uncover if we use the newspapers.com platform to research.

But separating the administrative/rules aspects of Patrick's resume and his coaching record should be considered carefully before we come to a general consensus on ranking.
 

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Hap Day (click for bio by HawkeyTown18) (quotes, stats, pics, sources, everything)


RECORD WITH TORONTO: 1940-41 THROUGH 1949-50



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WINS/LOSSES NHL: 1940-41 THROUGH 1949-50


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GOALS FOR PER GAME NHL: 1940-41 THROUGH 1949-50

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GOALS AGAINST PER GAME NHL: 1940-41 THROUGH 1949-50


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PLAYOFF RECORD OF ALL NHL TEAMS: 1940-41 THROUGH 1949-50


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Overview:


-Day won the SC 5 times and was out in round 1/not qualified the other 5. Interesting split.

-First NHL team to win 3 straight titles.

-The 5 SC's are mighty impressive in a 10 years span, especially when you consider how many damn times the Leafs lost in the finals under Dick Irvin (someone I find rather overrated) in the 1930's.

-9 of 10 years the Leafs were top 3 in GA's and 1st twice. But they also finished 1st in GF twice, 2nd twice, and didn't fall outside the top 3 until the 9th and 10th seasons.

-Balanced teams. Finished 3rd in GF and 3rd in GA, per game, over the entire tenure of Day.

-As far as regular season goes the Leafs were good, but were they better than Detroit or Montreal? No.

-The postseason is where you really see Day's brilliance especially in 1942 (came back from down 0-3) and 49 (went into postseason with losing record). No other team won more than 2 Cups (Detroit and Montreal each won 2) and Toronto had 5. Day was a noted task master and practices mirrored slave camps, but I don't get the feeling he was quite as ruthless as Punch Imlach on a person to person level.

-The last title 48-49, when they went into the postseason with a losing record and lost just once en route to the Cup is still one of the biggest "what the hell happened" runs.

-On one hand 4 teams making the playoffs out of 6 is an advantage over the pre consolidation coaches, but the 06 era saw teams needing to win at least 8 games/2 series to capture the Cup.

-Montreal underachieved, under a familiar name, Dick Irvin.



TALENT ON ROSTER:




LEAFS ROSTER 1940-41: (1st season)


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LEAFS ROSTER 1944-45: (5th season)


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LEAFS ROSTER: 1947-48 (8TH SEASON, 2ND OF 3 STRAIGHT TITLES)

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LEAFS ROSTER 1949-50: (last season)

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-OVERVIEW:


-I took the 1st, 5th, 8th, and 10th rosters that Day had at his disposal. This gives you a good idea what he had when he arrived, smack dab in the middle of his career, the 2nd of 3 straight and his final campaign.

-If you look at the rosters of Detroit in 1941, you'd have to say Toronto was certainly as good, with strong F's and a better G, although Detroit was superior on the blue line. Montreal was not in the same class with only a prime Toe Blake to really speak of. Elmer Lach was just getting started. Their G was Bert Gardiner. It was actually Boston though tho dominated the league and IMO had the best overall roster.

-The 44-45 Toronto team, on their way to Cup #2 under Day, did upend a much better Montreal squad who were absolutely loaded relative to the rest of the league. One of the biggest choke jobs in Montreal history here IMO. No other team really comes close to the talent Montreal possessed this season.

-Their middle of 3 Cup runs in 47-48 saw them sweep a strong Detroit team for the title. That was Gordie Howe's 2nd season, at just 19 years old. Lindsay though was rounding into the best LW in hockey. Sid Abel was in his prime. Toronto's F's were better IMO, because of how young the 2 studs on Detroit were but Detroit blew the Leafs out of the water on the blue line. Broda was superior to Lumley though. Montreal missing the playoffs this year was asinine given the roster talent.

-By Day's last year, Toronto was comfortably behind Montreal and Detroit in roster talent.



COACHING STYLE/X'S AND O'S/INNOVATIONS FROM A TACTICAL STANDPOINT:

-Day is often cited for creating what we now know as the neutral zone trap. We do know Pete Green was already using this sort of strategy with his Ottawa teams in the 1920's and even during the Silver Seven days. Obviously there were differences in rules/style of play, like 7 players vs 6, no forward pass, red lines, etc but the concept of trapping the other team had been long experimented with before Day came along. He seems to have molded it into a more modern concept and that is meaningful but I wouldn't necessarily call him the inventor of the trap itself.

-Like Patrick (and most other coaches), more research is needed in this area for Day to get a much more concrete idea of where he should ultimately rank but his coaching record is certainly very impressive considered he led the Leafs to titles in half of his seasons of coaching.
 
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tarheelhockey

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I think some may have conflated what Lester (and his brother) brought forth to the game of hockey from a rules standpoint vs what he did behind the bench as a coach. I think this is going to be the most important aspect to dive into with Patrick because a lot of the major bullet points here aren't directly related to coaching. See below for the major rules brought forth by Patrick.

  • Numbered Jerseys
  • Blue Lines
  • Penalty Shots
  • Allowing of goalies to leave their feet to make a save
  • Allowing of players to kick the puck
  • Rewarded assists on goals
  • "On the fly" line changes (when?)
  • Encourage rushing defensemen (when?)
  • Inaugurated a farm team system
  • Devised a profitable playoff system which is now used universally

This is extremely hard to pick apart. The Patricks all but invented the sport as they went along, often in tandem as business partners and teammates. I don't know how one would even begin to judge where Lester's influence ends and Frank's begins. Let alone how you can separate Lester's coaching the Rangers to take advantage of the neutral zone from the fact that the Patricks invented the neutral zone.
 

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This is extremely hard to pick apart. The Patricks all but invented the sport as they went along, often in tandem as business partners and teammates. I don't know how one would even begin to judge where Lester's influence ends and Frank's begins. Let alone how you can separate Lester's coaching the Rangers to take advantage of the neutral zone from the fact that the Patricks invented the neutral zone.

Well, for one, I think you're absolutely right. They were both involved in the growing and development of modern hockey more than anyone else by what we know today. It's really not even close. Their contributions to the game are staggering to include financially.

I think the key is separating what Lester did as a coach and what he did as a businessman.

As I said originally, creating the red line or inventing the penalty shot seems much more to do with administrative and creative design that it is coaching. Now, if one wanted to argue there's an indirect connection, you'd be crazy to push back. Take the neutral zone creation you mentioned. That's a massive bullet point to look at and actually, in my mind, Lester would have had a distinct advantage in forming strategy based on a new zone being introduced to the game.

Take Pete Green's use of the megaphone. It's not the megaphone that is important. It's the notion he would have been using it to communicate directly to players. Given we know he was already using distinctive defensive tactics in game, and spares, I think this is one of the first instances when you see a coach directly communicating with his players, instructions, at the very least.

To me that is a direct connection to coaching whereas Patrick inventing the neutral zone is more administrative with an indirect connection to coaching as you'd then have to adapt hockey strategy based a new rule (or line/zone). What did Patrick do as far as tactical adaptations go? Green essentially was the creator of the trap in the 1920's with a more rudimentary version during the Silver Seven days. It's something that has been used in hockey tactics for 100 years now. That's an extremely large coaching contribution IMO.

I would absolutely love, and think, we should at least attempt a top 25 (couldn't see more and 25 might be excessive) coaches project. The key would be doing the legwork before hand to get a better gauge on many of the coaches we don't know enough about beyond the record itself. Coaches of the last 40-50 years are easier to assess because we watched them coach. There's video available, generally more written about them. So the legwork for somebody like Scotty Bowman or Joel Quennville wouldn't be near as time consuming as it would be researching a Lester Patrick or Dirk Irvin.

I do think we could put together a pretty good ranking system based on record alone, as NHL.com now has really in depth stats dating back to 1927. So you can tally up league wide totals rather easily. Per game #'s. Where a team ranked in a certain statistic. But with some effort I think we can go beyond the numbers. It wouldn't be perfect by any stretch, but I personally would find it extremely interesting to attempt.
 
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tarheelhockey

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To me that is a direct connection to coaching whereas Patrick inventing the neutral zone is more administrative with an indirect connection to coaching as you'd then have to adapt hockey strategy based a new rule (or line/zone). What did Patrick do as far as tactical adaptations go?

In regard to the neutral zone — Patrick’s Rangers were led by the Bread Line (Cook-Boucher-Cook) which were noted at the time as being the most effective team in the league at taking advantage of the new rules.

If Ching Johnson hadn’t kept getting hurt which gutted their defense at inopportune times, NYR had a very real shot at a dynasty during that period. The Bread Line was THAT good, maximizing their talent with a zone-entry system that nobody could stop. I don’t mean to imply that Patrick rigged the rulebook to his advantage, but he definitely had a vision for how the game had changed conceptually. Imagine if they had stuck with the even more wide-open rulebook used for a half-season in 1929-30... a concept drawn from the western leagues run by the Patricks. It sure seems like Lester was busy designing a team that would have run everyone else out of the building with 10-goal games.

I would absolutely love, and think, we should at least attempt a top 25 (couldn't see more and 25 might be excessive) coaches project. The key would be doing the legwork before hand to get a better gauge on many of the coaches we don't know enough about beyond the record itself. Coaches of the last 40-50 years are easier to assess because we watched them coach. There's video available, generally more written about them. So the legwork for somebody like Scotty Bowman or Joel Quennville wouldn't be near as time consuming as it would be researching a Lester Patrick or Dirk Irvin.

It’s daunting as a research project, but IMO one of the unique strengths of this forum is its ability to tackle something this complex and potentially influential. I agree, this would be a good use of our time.
 
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In regard to the neutral zone — Patrick’s Rangers were led by the Bread Line (Cook-Boucher-Cook) which were noted at the time as being the most effective team in the league at taking advantage of the new rules.

If Ching Johnson hadn’t kept getting hurt which gutted their defense at inopportune times, NYR had a very real shot at a dynasty during that period. The Bread Line was THAT good, maximizing their talent with a zone-entry system that nobody could stop. I don’t mean to imply that Patrick rigged the rulebook to his advantage, but he definitely had a vision for how the game had changed conceptually. Imagine if they had stuck with the even more wide-open rulebook used for a half-season in 1929-30... a concept drawn from the western leagues run by the Patricks. It sure seems like Lester was busy designing a team that would have run everyone else out of the building with 10-goal games.

It’s daunting as a research project, but IMO one of the unique strengths of this forum is its ability to tackle something this complex and potentially influential. I agree, this would be a good use of our time.

Correct. And as I said, not surprising in the least haha. If you're the creator of something(s), you're going to have an inherent advantage in mapping out a path once the design is implemented vs your competitors.

But these creations are all incredibly important to the history of the game. I just happen to believe there is a difference between creating a new rule and creating/implementing strategy based of said rule. Patrick obviously did both, but given he was designing strategy based off a rule he created in the first place, I'm not sure that holds as much significance for me as say Pete Green more or less coming up with a neutral zone trap in the 20's and was already making not only seasonal, but in game tactical changes in how he deployed his skaters in 1910, 11, 12.

And I say this still needing more info on Patrick from a non-record standpoint.

As for the Rangers, I think they were as impressive as any other team in the league over Patrick's reign, I just don't see them as the best. Nobody really grabbed that title. I certainly don't see them as offensive juggernauts that has been mentioned in the past. And those Rangers squads, were as talented as anyone else in the league especially once Seibert, Dillon and Heller join the squad in the early 30's. Boston, to me, was the team that underachieved the most over this time period though.
 

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Well the hits just keep coming for Green treasures:

  • Scouting players
  • Green becomes 1st assistant in NHL history?
  • Use of buzzer to call subs + hilarious story
  • Using Darragh on his off wing to great success
  • Using multiple players, line shifts to cover Reg Noble. Very intricate coaching.
  • Holding practices to prepare for different style of hockey before SCF vs Seattle
  • Coaching demeanor described


3 Feb 1913, Page 5 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

Green scouting

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12 Jan 1920, Page 14 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

Paging Dr. Green, LLD of hockey

Ottawa's system mentioned again.

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29 Dec 1921, Page 12 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

Referencing the discovery of King Clancy the year prior by Green.

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30 Jun 1924, Page 4 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

Referencing Green discovering Jack Darragh and signing him in 1910

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6 Nov 1925, Page 17 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com


PETE GREEN POSSIBLY THE FIRST EVER ASSISTANT COACH?


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15 Mar 1941, Page 28 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

Direct reference to the buzzer wired to the bench to call for substitutes that Green invented. Being used in game, and there was even a system set up where the # of buzzes corresponded with a certain player.

Oh, and this is an absolutely hilarious story.

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14 Jan 1911, Page 5 - The Ottawa Journal at Newspapers.com

1911 - Teams now allowed to use 3 subs and Green's tactics are noted in response to rule change.

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8 Dec 1919, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green working the team out.

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10 Dec 1919, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green going over the lay of the land with his team before a workout. Direct player communication.


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1 Mar 1920, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

This is telling report. Green's team playing flawlessly.

Green's tactics change within the game. See at the end of the 1st and most of the 2nd, Green held a F back and then in the 3rd, his team stretched across the neutral zone 3 and 4 abreast.

Green using a wing on his "off" side!

Green cited as handling his job faultlessly.


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23 Feb 1920, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green using Cy Denenny to cover Reg Noble, then Broadbent and even shifted Darragh over. Perfection.


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18 Mar 1920, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green has team working out in preparation for the SCF out west vs Seattle. Working on the forward pass/offside skating.


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11 Dec 1920, 20 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green's demeanor noted.


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More and more and more:

  • Green gives part of his salary to players
  • Green gets huge praise from Sprague Cleghorn who was with Montreal at the time
  • Multiple game reports showing Green using different line combinations and tactics
  • Awesome post game interview
  • Using Darragh on off wing to shadow Babe Dye

3 Dec 1921, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green noted as respected and feared all around the NHL.


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7 Mar 1921, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

-You think the players loved and respected Green? Here's another reason why. He literally gave some of his season salary to his players as a bonus.

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27 Dec 1921, 10 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

King Clancy signing. Will get master level coaching by Pete Green.

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16 Jan 1922, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green using subs to rest his 1st string players.

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20 Feb 1922, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green noted to use different combinations, shifting players up from D and back, mixing and matching within a game. Incredible detail.

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20 Feb 1923, 10 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com


Green is praised by Sprague Cleghorn who was discovered and coached up by Green to start his career. These are major finds.


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22 Jan 1923, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green giving his team a pep talk.

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29 Jan 1923, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green deploying his players in different manners.


Green clearly adapting to what Hamilton was doing and re-arranging his team in response.

Green gives post game interview. Sens came back to win from down 4.


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3 Jan 1923, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green using Darragh on his off wing to shadow Babe Dye keeping Denenny in reserve.


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Boggles my mind how this man is not in the HOF. They're going to make me work up a book on him, aren't they? :laugh:


  • Green preaches conditioning
  • Warns players against overconfidence
  • Green gives scouting report on Dubbie Kerr
  • Silver Seven Reunion in 1929
  • Gorman didn't see the HOF potential of King Clancy. Green did though.


17 Feb 1911, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green, in 1911 already showing the importance of conditioning. Players adhere to his training rules.


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9 Jan 1911, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Pete Green noted to have found Darragh but also Albert "Dubbie" Kerr.

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11 Mar 1911, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green spells out winning hockey formula in 1911.

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30 Dec 1911, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green warning his players against overconfidence.

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18 Dec 1912, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green on Dubbie Kerr.


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8 Jan 1923, 9 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Megaphones banned....again.

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22 Feb 1923, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com


Clear cut strategy using different combinations so shut Babe Dye down. Caused Dye to take a dumb penalty.


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19 Feb 1929, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Silver Seven reunion in 1929. Green noted as famous coach.

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Legends of Hockey - Spotlight - One on One with King Clancy

Tommy Gorman didn't know King Clancy was going to be a HOF'er. Pete Green was obviously scouting him and saw the potential.
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ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,763
7,791
Oblivion Express
18 Nov 1924, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Green running hard practice w/ a scrimmage between 2 full teams.

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1 Dec 1924, 11 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com


Pete Green saying his team will stick up for themselves if the officials won't.

Noted to advise his players not to retaliate in years past.


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5 Mar 1927, 12 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

This is really neat. I believe this is is a high school match up and one of the teams is said to adopt Pete Green's kitty-bar-the-door tactics. 1927 so a few years after his final season coaching in Ottawa. Clearly shows the impact his past strategies had and are having at all levels of hockey.


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14 Dec 1911, 6 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Shrewdest in business and popular with players and fans.

Nobody has won as much as Green.


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21 Dec 1910, 8 - The Ottawa Citizen at Newspapers.com

Pete Green calls Cyclone Taylor the prince of hockeyists and greatest dman in the game.

Would spend $2,000 to bring him back on board, in 1910.


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tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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I think the full story belongs in the thread about train travel, but noteworthy here:

The Dec 6 1919 issue of the Saskatoon Star-Phoenix, in announcing that Green will coach the Sens for 19-20, calls him "perhaps the most famous coach in the history of hockey".

Even if the story in this article is something of a tall tale (and I'm really not sure it is), it's still worth a read: The Saskatoon Phoenix - Google News Archive Search
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,763
7,791
Oblivion Express
I think the full story belongs in the thread about train travel, but noteworthy here:

The Dec 6 1919 issue of the Saskatoon Star-Phoenix, in announcing that Green will coach the Sens for 19-20, calls him "perhaps the most famous coach in the history of hockey".

Even if the story in this article is something of a tall tale (and I'm really not sure it is), it's still worth a read: The Saskatoon Phoenix - Google News Archive Search

I honestly don't think you could come up with anyone in 1920 who at that time was remotely close to Green in terms of accomplishments. And he only furthered that legacy over the next 3 years.

That was a great find/read TH.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,763
7,791
Oblivion Express
And I just realized they are talking about the original Silver Seven that won 4 straight Cups. If we can prove definitively that he coached those teams from 03-06, that leaves zero doubt in my mind about having him #3 overall. I have some circumstantial evidence in my bio that he was indeed coaching those teams but haven't been able to lock it down 100%.

I also have to say, it's pretty impressive that a western Canada paper would have been writing in that much detail about Green. His presence was incredibly well known.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,537
4,906
I think the full story belongs in the thread about train travel, but noteworthy here:

The Dec 6 1919 issue of the Saskatoon Star-Phoenix, in announcing that Green will coach the Sens for 19-20, calls him "perhaps the most famous coach in the history of hockey".

Even if the story in this article is something of a tall tale (and I'm really not sure it is), it's still worth a read: The Saskatoon Phoenix - Google News Archive Search

Can you point me to the article in question? The link only leads me to the front page of the paper.
 

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