Percentage of Roles for Men/Women by Decade

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,992
9,435
You mean the post you replied to with "whatever" because you couldn't read it?



Another thing I despise in life is counter-performative people (people who say you should do one thing, but do the opposite ; people who say you shouldn't do the thing they themselves do).

"Watch and like what I like, or you're a bad person."

I've been part of this board for long enough for you to know that I don't care what you watch. But I guess you that's not exactly what you meant by imposing my beliefs on everyone else. So you're a bad person if you don't think like me, and that's terrible, but you calling me a snowflake twice or thrice for not thinking like you is ok? You want to discuss holding a logical argument? Difference is, I do think there's a little asshole-ry in the discourse you hold, so I might insult you a little. You insult me because you can't defend that discourse.

"go out and buy 1000 tickets"

So after you've suggested a few times that I produce a film, hire actresses with Brad Pitt money, you want me to buy 1000 tickets? But...



So which is it? Again, you want to discuss holding a logical argument?




(just because I don't want to have to re-explain, let's recap: that's twice you've been counter-performative, time to clean up your act)
Whatever... :rolleyes:

Here's an easy way for you to put your money where your mouth is...

Charlie's Angels DVD Release Date March 10, 2020

Buy 100 copies to support the "cause" and Elizabeth Banks - I'm sure she will love you for it! Ask your fellow believers to do the same. A win-win. :thumbu: Pass them out on the street in the hope of recruiting others.

Re : "I've been part of this board for long enough for you to know that I don't care what you watch. "

I don't want to disappoint you but I have NO idea who you are or what you like.
 
Last edited:

Cole Caulifield

Registered User
Apr 22, 2004
27,967
2,465
There's a lot of stuff in there, and I'll assume you ask questions in good faith.

Is there a problem with any of the above ? Yes, there is. It's not of the same scale, the number of female truck drivers have little impact on our comprehension of the world, but the number of female secretaries certainly have for many years. I don't know for the States, but you are Québécois - in Québec, employers have access to subventions in certain male-dominated fields for hiring women. Why is that? Now there's a whole other discussion to be had to why it is that way that has nothing to do with cinema, but it's still a problem for many kiddos who dream differently.

Why is that indeed ? Are those subventions really needed in 2020 in Québec ? And why are there not subventions for men in female dominated fields ?

Now I really have to refrain from rudeness here... Such as? You'd say there's characteristics in men that make them better to collect garbage (such as physical strenght) and I'd still think that's dumb (I'm a basketball coach and 90% of my girls would break you in half ;-) ). But now you're going in the direction of creativity, leadership, intelligence, that's a very dangerous path to go through.

If you say so.

So when I say some characteristics of what makes a good director I'm thinking more of men possessing certain character traits more often then women, and vice versa.

I found this article to be quite interesting balancing both sides of the equation :

Taking this approach, the researchers actually found gender differences for every one of the 10 aspects of personality that they looked at – women scored higher, on average, on enthusiasm, compassion, politeness, orderliness, volatility, withdrawal, and openness, while men scored higher on assertiveness, industriousness and intellect.

Do men and women really have different personalities?

And so no one confuses intelligence with intellect... I added the defintiion of intellect below to avoid painful conversations :

Intellect is a trait that describes a person's preference for imagination, artistic, and intellectual activities.

At every point in the article they will say one study concludes this, another study concludes the opposite. The above excerpt is just one study. But overall the article is well balanced. My overall conclusion after reading the article is that it's almost impossible to scientifically determine whether these differences are biological or societal but there are differences between men and women in terms of character traits. And I especially like this part of the article :

At the same time, it’s worth noting that there is more to this issue than gossip magazine tittle-tattle. There is increasing recognition of the part played by our personality traits in influencing our life choices and mental wellbeing. A better understanding of how men and women differ in personality, and why, could help create equal opportunity for all, as well as more effectively combat mental health problems, many of which affect one gender more than the other – like levels of depression being higher among women, consistent with their scoring higher on average in neuroticism.

Before we play around with quotas and positive discrimination, I think it's important that we understand how much the difference in these personality traits influence our career choices. Personally, I don't think there needs to be subventions to have more male nurses in hospitals. It's the way things are, women are more interested in that field than men and there's nothing wrong with that. Sure, if there is a negative bias toward women being movie directors it should change, but too often well meaning people rush to judgement with little factual information and try to change the world ... for the worse.

I won't address that, but it's a thought that leads straight to incel or masculinism discourse and that's a bomb I have no time to diffuse.

whatever...
 

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,217
9,602
Before we play around with quotas and positive discrimination, I think it's important that we understand how much the difference in these personality traits influence our career choices. Personally, I don't think there needs to be subventions to have more male nurses in hospitals. It's the way things are, women are more interested in that field than men and there's nothing wrong with that. Sure, if there is a negative bias toward women being movie directors it should change, but too often well meaning people rush to judgement with little factual information and try to change the world ... for the worse.

I agree. If there's discrimination and lack of opportunity, those need to be investigated and addressed, but not with reverse discrimination and advantage. People will say that a person being hired because he's a man is sexist and wrong, but then applaud the hiring of a woman, which seems hypocritical to me. We need to ensure equality of opportunity, not equality of result. Forcing the desired result doesn't mean that we've beaten discrimination, only that we've championed one form of it over another. That's not a good thing just because we may mean well and believe that we're on the right side of the issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bruins4Lifer

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,992
9,435
I agree. If there's discrimination and lack of opportunity, those need to be investigated and addressed, but not with reverse discrimination and advantage. People will say that a person being hired because he's a man is sexist and wrong, but then applaud the hiring of a woman, which seems hypocritical to me. We need to ensure equality of opportunity, not equality of result. Forcing the desired result doesn't mean that we've beaten discrimination, only that we've championed one form of it over another. That's not a good thing just because we may mean well and believe that we're on the right side of the issue.
Amen!

Besides, who in their right mind is going to feel sorry for an actress who makes $5M per movie instead of $25M for Brad Pitt? Not me. I have better places to direct my pity.
 

Pranzo Oltranzista

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
3,843
2,703
I agree. If there's discrimination and lack of opportunity, those need to be investigated and addressed, but not with reverse discrimination and advantage. People will say that a person being hired because he's a man is sexist and wrong, but then applaud the hiring of a woman, which seems hypocritical to me. We need to ensure equality of opportunity, not equality of result. Forcing the desired result doesn't mean that we've beaten discrimination, only that we've championed one form of it over another. That's not a good thing just because we may mean well and believe that we're on the right side of the issue.

Absolutely agree, and I'm not one to advocate any forced results. I'm not even saying we need to change the situation, I just think we need to be aware and understand it in social/political terms and not in measures of actractivity.



Are you trying to hold on to other people's more articulate arguments? Neither of Osprey or Sugar's position is equal to yours - and even if I disagree with the latter, he tried to articulate it and never was at the "she's pretty thus she deserves the role" level.
 

Pranzo Oltranzista

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
3,843
2,703
I was glad they put you in your place. ;)

You're really that dumb and bitter? I don't think @Osprey was aiming at putting me in my place, and even though I'm sure @Sugar Domi wished he had, you only thumbed up his "whatever" comment, which you only felt drawn to as an echo of your own intellectual incapacity. As for his post, I chose not to answer it for the same reason I ended my previous post with... Even if his lame invention of a definition to the word "intellect" to fit his discourse was an easy target to breach the whole thing.
 

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,992
9,435
You're really that dumb and bitter? I don't think @Osprey was aiming at putting me in my place, and even though I'm sure @Sugar Domi wished he had, you only thumbed up his "whatever" comment, which you only felt drawn to as an echo of your own intellectual incapacity. As for his post, I chose not to answer it for the same reason I ended my previous post with... Even if his lame invention of a definition to the word "intellect" to fit his discourse was an easy target to breach the whole thing.
LOL!
 

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,217
9,602
I was glad they put you in your place. ;)

I wasn't trying to put anyone in his place, especially Violenza, even though I happened to be replying to someone that was arguing with him. I may disagree with him on several things, but I respect the way that he argues. On the other hand, I often agree with you, but the way that often make your arguments makes it hard for me to back you up, to be honest. I just hate it when sensitive issues like this turn combative and think that it only makes things worse. I love to argue, but I'm careful about how I do it because it's important to be taken seriously if you want others to consider your arguments. That achieves more than putting them in their place. In fact, I think that that's a large part of the problem with politics: we've lost so much respect for people on the other side that we just shout at and go to war with them instead of actually listening to and trying to understand each other.
 
Last edited:

Cole Caulifield

Registered User
Apr 22, 2004
27,967
2,465
You're really that dumb and bitter? I don't think @Osprey was aiming at putting me in my place, and even though I'm sure @Sugar Domi wished he had, you only thumbed up his "whatever" comment, which you only felt drawn to as an echo of your own intellectual incapacity. As for his post, I chose not to answer it for the same reason I ended my previous post with... Even if his lame invention of a definition to the word "intellect" to fit his discourse was an easy target to breach the whole thing.

My invention ? That was directly pulled out of the first search result I got on google. I find it peculiar that it offends you, or that you are drawing conclusions from it. But it does not surprise me.

Not to mention it wasn't even my discourse it was an article I quoted from. An article that is entirely fair in every way and I bet you didn't even bother reading because you're so disposed to see things one way only. Not that this article even takes one side or another, it does a great job of showing all sides of the issue.
 
Last edited:

Pranzo Oltranzista

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
3,843
2,703
My invention ? That was directly pulled out of the first search result I got on google. I find it peculiar that it offends you, or that you are drawing conclusions from it. But it does not surprise me.

It offends me? Nah, intellectual fraudsters don't offend me. I guess Google just works differently for me. My first results go:

Oxford:
  • the faculty of reasoning and understanding objectively, especially with regard to abstract or academic matters.
  • the understanding or mental powers of a particular person.
    plural noun: intellects
    "his keen intellect"
  • an intelligent or intellectual person.
    "sapping our country of some of its brightest intellects"

Cambridge:
UK
US
Merriam-Webster:
  • 1a : the power of knowing as distinguished from the power to feel and to will : the capacity for knowledge
  • b : the capacity for rational or intelligent thought especially when highly developed
Collins:

  • If you describe someone as an intellect, you mean that they are very intelligent.
-----------------------------------------------
And so no one confuses intelligence with intellect... I added the defintiion of intellect below to avoid painful conversations

I guess you must have a completely different dictionary at hand, in order to "avoid" painful conversations regarding the fact (in my dictionaries at least) that your point was implying that men were more intelligent than women.
 

Cole Caulifield

Registered User
Apr 22, 2004
27,967
2,465
I wasn't trying to put anyone in his place, especially Violenza, even though I happened to be replying to someone that was arguing with him. I may disagree with him on several things, but I respect the way that he argues. On the other hand, I often agree with you, but the way that often make your arguments makes it hard for me to take your side, to be honest. I just really hate it when sensitive issues like this turn combative and think that it only makes things worse. I love to argue, but I'm careful about how I do it because the last thing that I want is lose people's respect. Once that happens, I lose whatever small chance of influencing opinions that I had. I think that that's a large part of the problem with politics: we've lost so much respect for people on the other side that we just shout at and go to war with them instead of actually listening to and trying to understand each other.

It's difficult to argue sensitive subjects. Sometimes I want to get involved because I feel strongly about it but I know i'm not the best advocate. I do let my emotions get the better of me in arguments often.

I really respect the way that you argue your points on many issues without ever letting it get personal. I have a hard time doing that.
 

Cole Caulifield

Registered User
Apr 22, 2004
27,967
2,465
It offends me? Nah, intellectual fraudsters don't offend me. I guess Google just works differently for me. My first results go:

Oxford:
  • the faculty of reasoning and understanding objectively, especially with regard to abstract or academic matters.
  • the understanding or mental powers of a particular person.
    plural noun: intellects
    "his keen intellect"
  • an intelligent or intellectual person.
    "sapping our country of some of its brightest intellects"
Cambridge:
UK
US
Merriam-Webster:
  • 1a : the power of knowing as distinguished from the power to feel and to will : the capacity for knowledge
  • b : the capacity for rational or intelligent thought especially when highly developed
Collins:

  • If you describe someone as an intellect, you mean that they are very intelligent.
-----------------------------------------------


I guess you must have a completely different dictionary at hand, in order to "avoid" painful conversations regarding the fact (in my dictionaries at least) that your point was implying that men were more intelligent than women.

Search :intellect trait meaning.

Result :
Search Results

Featured snippet from the web

Intellect/Imagination (Openness) is a trait that describes a person's preference for imagination, artistic, and intellectual activities.Nov 21, 2019

The Big Five Personality Traits - Psych Central


Which is clearly was is meant in the article.


https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-big-five-personality-traits/
 

holy

2023-2024 Cup CHamps
May 22, 2017
7,105
11,065
Who said men are more intelligent than women? The truth is they do live different lives entirely. Women are less likely to act as dumb as men if anything, which makes movies on them difficult to conceptualize, especially as they enter middle age.

Maybe you can come up with a screenplay idea about a middle aged woman which places her as the main character that would be compelling to watch, and it’s definitely a possibility, lots of badass women in history, but men are willing to die stupidly at a much higher rate (which is why the ideas such as women taking up certain jobs outside of the acting realm is actually relevant to what we’re discussing) which leads to interesting drama surrounding a plot where they are the lead.
 

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,992
9,435
I wasn't trying to put anyone in his place, especially Violenza, even though I happened to be replying to someone that was arguing with him. I may disagree with him on several things, but I respect the way that he argues. On the other hand, I often agree with you, but the way that often make your arguments makes it hard for me to back you up, to be honest. I just hate it when sensitive issues like this turn combative and think that it only makes things worse. I love to argue, but I'm careful about how I do it because the last thing that I want is to lose people's respect. Once that happens, I'm not listened to any more, and being taken seriously is more important to me than putting others in their place. I think that that's a large part of the problem with politics: we've lost so much respect for people on the other side that we just shout at and go to war with them instead of actually listening to and trying to understand each other.
If you can't back me, don't worry about it. I'm a big boy and can handle myself. :)
 

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,992
9,435
It offends me? Nah, intellectual fraudsters don't offend me. I guess Google just works differently for me. My first results go:

Oxford:
  • the faculty of reasoning and understanding objectively, especially with regard to abstract or academic matters.
  • the understanding or mental powers of a particular person.
    plural noun: intellects
    "his keen intellect"
  • an intelligent or intellectual person.
    "sapping our country of some of its brightest intellects"
Cambridge:
UK
US
Merriam-Webster:
  • 1a : the power of knowing as distinguished from the power to feel and to will : the capacity for knowledge
  • b : the capacity for rational or intelligent thought especially when highly developed
Collins:

  • If you describe someone as an intellect, you mean that they are very intelligent.
-----------------------------------------------


I guess you must have a completely different dictionary at hand, in order to "avoid" painful conversations regarding the fact (in my dictionaries at least) that your point was implying that men were more intelligent than women.
Good Lord. :facepalm:
 

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
17,992
9,435
It's difficult to argue sensitive subjects. Sometimes I want to get involved because I feel strongly about it but I know i'm not the best advocate. I do let my emotions get the better of me in arguments often.

I really respect the way that you argue your points on many issues without ever letting it get personal. I have a hard time doing that.
Don't get emotional. Just be logical.

As I said, if people feel a certain type of movie should be made, then let them put THEIR time and money on the line and get one made. If they don't have the courage to do that, then they shouldn't whine or complain.

As for me : I like the way movies are made (minus super hero garbage) and I don't care if it ever changes.
 
Last edited:

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,217
9,602
I really respect the way that you argue your points on many issues without ever letting it get personal. I have a hard time doing that.

Thanks. It's not easy for me, though; trust me. My first drafts are always a lot more argumentative and personal. It's just that I spend so much time revising them that I cool down by the time that I hit Submit... and then often edit them multiple times after the fact. What you eventually see is often not what came to me first :laugh:.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
44,029
11,724
Who said men are more intelligent than women? The truth is they do live different lives entirely. Women are less likely to act as dumb as men if anything, which makes movies on them difficult to conceptualize, especially as they enter middle age.

Maybe you can come up with a screenplay idea about a middle aged woman which places her as the main character that would be compelling to watch, and it’s definitely a possibility, lots of badass women in history, but men are willing to die stupidly at a much higher rate (which is why the ideas such as women taking up certain jobs outside of the acting realm is actually relevant to what we’re discussing) which leads to interesting drama surrounding a plot where they are the lead.
Acting dumb is not a prerequisite for making a movie. What percentage of movies do you think are being made where doing stupid things is a foundation to the plot?
 

holy

2023-2024 Cup CHamps
May 22, 2017
7,105
11,065
Acting dumb is not a prerequisite for making a movie. What percentage of movies do you think are being made where doing stupid things is a foundation to the plot?
Almost all exciting movies have some element of death being around the corner. Which is more prevalent in the lives of men than it is women.

I’m just saying it can be argued that living a cautious life is seen as the smarter decision, although I guess it really isn’t as black and white as that. But my real point was that this isn’t a “men are smarter than women” debate cause it’s not. If anything most men are dumber than most women. But movies tend to be about people who are the most _______ which usually end up being men. There’s an inherent danger in standing out too much.
 

JetsWillFly4Ever

PLAY EHLERS 20 MIN A NIGHT
May 21, 2011
6,266
9,179
Winnipeg MB.
Is it that hard to admit that: Yes, men and women are different and that may contribute in part to why either are over/underrepresented in certain fields (including cinema). Yes, patriarchy and sexism also plays a factor in this.

Both can be true.

Hiring quota's bothered me for a long time, but I do understand them. If all bosses are white men, and there is no influence to hiring minorities/women, white men will continue to dominate the top of fields for a long time. People are conditioned to want to work with, be friends with, people like them. You are going to spend multiple hours a day with someone, wouldn't you rather it be with someone who is like you and is more likely to have similar interests? There needs to be some sort of way to influence people to hire minorities/women, I am not sure that quota's are the right thing to do but I get it.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad