Percentage of Roles for Men/Women by Decade

Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by ORRFForever, May 25, 2020.

  1. kihei Registered User

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    I look at recent popular movies and I see Little Women and Birds of Prey starring younger women, then a whole bunch of Bad Boys Forever, Call of the Wild, Dolittle, 1917, basically the same old, same old. If younger actresses are getting more starring roles, then good for them. Seems like a good thing to me.



    I've known a lot of actors and actresses and none of them think like this. Their dedication of their craft is a lifetime commitment--because some actresses have babies doesn't mean they are ready to settle down and be full time mothers once the kid arrives. Most never make anything like big bucks; most never find enough work to go around, which is true for actors, as well. You make it sound like acting is some sort of hardship for men. The actors I've known, male and female, actually love to act and most want to do it for as long as they can. So I don't see how the choice that you proffer here fits any known reality that I am aware of.
     
  2. Osprey Registered User

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    1917 is a good example of a film starring 20-something men. The other three that you mention along with it are most definitely not, though.

    I'm only playing devil's advocate because you're making it sound like acting is a hardship for women. After 40, it is, but before that, it no longer is. To reference the OP's stats, 80% of roles going to 20-somethings now go to women. I'm trying to understand why that's a good thing, but it's a bad thing for 80% of over-40 roles to go to men.
     
  3. kihei Registered User

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    My list of movies was just listing popular films that didn't star young women--had nothing to do with young actors.

    The rest of your post is just the same old same old.
     
  4. Violenza Domestica Registered User

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    That's the stats I came across with a 20 seconds lousy Google search. I thought the data was large enough to be interesting.
     
  5. ORRFForever Registered User

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    In society, it is NOT uncommon for women to be attracted to older men. George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, etc... As a result, women will buy tickets to see them.

    Men are the opposite.

    Can you think of the last time you went to see an older woman in a movie? I can't. I find Neve Campbell sexy but, at 46, I'm not paying to see her.

    I paid to see Cameron Diaz shake her bum in Charlies Angels when she was in her mid 20's. Now... you'd have to pay me!

    As I said originally, guys will fork over $15 to see an actress if 1) they are pretty AND 2) they provide a fantasy. Once the actress is over the age of 40, more times than not, the latter does not apply.

    Given how poorly some women age, after forty, sometimes the former doesn't apply, either.
     
  6. Violenza Domestica Registered User

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    You know there's free porn on the Internet, right? That's some pathetic and quite disgusting discourse and you still sound kind of proud....
     
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  7. ORRFForever Registered User

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    Oh well... I'll have to learn to live with the shame and YOUR disappointment. :rolleyes:

    Besides, everything I wrote is true - if it's not, give examples.

    If what I wrote is not P.C. or upsets snowflake posters who are bothered by the truth, I don't care.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  8. Amerika Ye lyin'dog

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    I don't pay to see any movie based on a woman's attractiveness. That sounds so nuts to me. I would convert, kiss the bible every night before bed and attend church every sunday for a shot at Helen Mirren. I'm still not watching a movie strictly because I find her beautiful.
     
  9. kihei Registered User

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    Reading Mark Twain at the moment. He had a great line, something really true: “It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt."
     
  10. ORRFForever Registered User

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    Oh Kihei... What I wrote is true. If you can prove me wrong, please do.

    Please provide examples of female actresses, over the age of 40, that a large number of men will pay to see - and NOT just a one off like Jennifer Lopez playing a stripper in Hustlers.

    * Amy Adams maybe... but she's still HOT !!!
    * Jennifer Anniston has had ONE hit (too strong a word for The Millers) in the last decade.
    * Sandra Bullock had Gravity but that had George Clooney (for the ladies) and was about a subject that guys would see - no matter the actress.

    Anyway, I'll await your LONG list.

    ***

    Besides, if my theory about guys only seeing women who they 1) find pretty and 2) can fantasize about is wrong, then why are so many actresses upset that they can NOT find roles after the age of 40?

    What other explanation is there?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  11. ORRFForever Registered User

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    The only thing I admire more than people of principle, is people who put their money where their mouth is so...

    I recommend Kihei, Violenza Domestica and Jussi pool your money and make your own movie starring 40+ actresses - and don't forget to pay them what Mark Wahlberg makes!!! Otherwise, that's sexist.

    Anyway, let me know when you turn a profit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  12. Osprey Registered User

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    If you mean that I keep saying the same thing, that's because you keep not addressing it. You certainly don't have to, but the way that you're avoiding it suggests to me that I have a point.

    My favorite of his, also really true: "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example."
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  13. ORRFForever Registered User

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    Kihei can't answer. He's busy interviewing 40+ year old actresses for a movie he's producing. Since he's paying them what Brad Pitt would make, there are a LOT of actresses interested. ;)

    He's going to make a FORTUNE when this thing gets released.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  14. Don'tcry4mejanhrdina Registered User

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    Maybe women would have more roles if people like Scarlett Johansson weren't essentially bullied about taking a role as a transgendered person, forcing her to drop out.

    Cate Blanchett played Bob Dylan for crying out loud and did an amazing job at it.

    I guess my point is, I don't care what percentage of gender/race/age/whatever is in a movie/show, just make it good and I'll watch it. A movie like Bridesmaids was hilarious. This coming from a guy who hates weddings and would have no interest in watching people pick out dresses or any of that stuff, but funny is funny. I never watched the female Ghostbusters because I heard it wasn't very funny and honestly, I never found the original to be very funny, either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  15. Violenza Domestica Registered User

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    I don't want to talk for kihei, because I'm a lot less polite than he is, but I think he'll agree with me here... wtf? I'm not sure if you consciously fall down to fallacies or if you argue like a 12 y/o, but where did I say what you said wasn't "true"? I said pretty much the same thing like 5 posts before...

    Never said it wasn't happening. I said it was a problem. And then I said you looked like you were proud to be part of the problem. Now you want me to hire actresses and prove you wrong? (ok, I have my answer, you do argue like a 12 y/o).

    Second part of my quoted post is still true. You can't fathom the wider causalities at play here (I don't blame you, I didn't either when my brain wasn't fully developed).

    Cute girls are cute - Guys like looking at cute girls - Guys will pay money to look at cute girls - Movie will make money

    Yes, yes, simpleton! "All is for the best in this best of possible worlds". Still, it doesn't explain the stats I posted about female directors. Still, in doesn't explain why a film like Knives Out just couldn't have been made with a female lead. Narratively, wouldn't change a thing, but you just know it wouldn't have been made (or if it did, it would have been a "landmark"). But why? There's something skewed about female representation. I'm not saying it's not getting better, but it is a problem - and it plays a part in greenlighting everyday sexism and misogyny.

    As for cinema itself, you should have known better than to ask of me and kihei (of all people) to prove you right by implying a film's aim should be to make money - but that too might go right over your head. Anyway, films would make money if they were made. The female version of Benoit Blanc would have made a profit. Nancy Meyers makes a good profit. But that never was my point.
     
  16. kihei Registered User

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    :thumbu:
     
  17. ArGarBarGar Defense Please

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    This thread is going about how I expected.
     
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  18. ORRFForever Registered User

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    Whatever... :rolleyes:

    Like I said, people like you want to tell everyone else how to live THEIR lives and spend THEIR money. If you think there is a niche market going unfulfilled, then put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is and fill it. If not, stop crying about it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  19. Sugar Domi Registered User

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    You did not reply to my earlier point about this, I will repeat it :

    The fact there is a dispararity in the amount of female/male directors is not necessarily a sign that there is a problem.

    There are a lot more males collecting garbage than female.
    There are more female secretaries than male.
    There are a lot more male truck drivers than female.
    There are lot more females cutting hairs than male.
    There are a lot more female primary school teachers than male.
    There are more male mechanics than female.
    There are more female nurses than male.

    Is there a problem with any of the above ? Women and men are different and they have different interests. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and is not a sign there is a problem.

    I can't speak for everywhere in the world, but in Quebec, I see little sign that there are negative odds of women succeeding in whatever field they apply themselves.

    Is it possible that the characteristics that make a good director are characteristic found more often in men than women ? Is it possible that the nature of the job appeals to men more than women ? Do you know if there are even that many women interested in being directors in movies ? Because there historically has not been as many female direct0rs as male, there are fewer models for young girls, is it possible that fewer young girls grow up wanting to become directors as a result ? Aren't a lot of directors also writers who write their own movies, and produce their own movies ? What's keeping women from doing that since in that case the power is basically in the hands of the individual.

    I don't know the answer to these questions... but I suspect the reason for the disparity in female/male directors is probably in there and less a result of negative bias toward women and more as a result of the differences between men and women.

    And btw, those differences should be celebrated. It's good that we are different and complementary. I find it sad that people are trying to blur the lines between genders personally.
     
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  20. ORRFForever Registered User

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    Amen! Thank you for a well written and logical argument - unlike the post you were replying to.
     
  21. ORRFForever Registered User

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    I agree. Some posters want to impose their beliefs on everyone else. Watch and like what I like, or you're a bad person.

    If VD feels so strongly about female empowerment in Hollywood, next time there is a Charlie's Angels-esk bomb, let him go out and buy 1,000 tickets to support it. If not, he can go pound snowflakes... er... um.. salt.
     
  22. ORRFForever Registered User

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    :)

    What else do we have to do during this pandemic? ;)
     
  23. ArGarBarGar Defense Please

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    Seems like a pretty flimsy justification to suspect that the status quo has no bias against women, explicitly or implicitly.

    I also think when it comes to a profession that not only influences/reaches many people and showcases points of view to a large audience, it is important to be inclusive of all different people (black/white/male/female/etc.) wherever possible/reasonable. The idea that women simply aren't capable of being a director to the degree compared to men isn't founded in anything I have seen, and such a large gap is quite concerning without any analysis that can adequately explain it.
     
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  24. Violenza Domestica Registered User

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    There's a lot of stuff in there, and I'll assume you ask questions in good faith.

    Is there a problem with any of the above ? Yes, there is. It's not of the same scale, the number of female truck drivers have little impact on our comprehension of the world, but the number of female secretaries certainly have for many years. I don't know for the States, but you are Québécois - in Québec, employers have access to subventions in certain male-dominated fields for hiring women. Why is that? Now there's a whole other discussion to be had to why it is that way that has nothing to do with cinema, but it's still a problem for many kiddos who dream differently.

    Is it possible that the characteristics that make a good director are characteristics found more often in men than women?
    Now I really have to refrain from rudeness here... Such as? You'd say there's characteristics in men that make them better to collect garbage (such as physical strenght) and I'd still think that's dumb (I'm a basketball coach and 90% of my girls would break you in half ;-) ). But now you're going in the direction of creativity, leadership, intelligence, that's a very dangerous path to go through.

    Is it possible that the nature of the job appeals to men more than women ?
    I used to teach cinema, and no. More than half my students were young women.

    What's keeping women from doing that since in that case the power is basically in the hands of the individual. That's a really naive understanding of the world, I guess that's the American dream yeah.

    I suspect the reason for the disparity in female/male directors is probably in there and less a result of negative bias toward women and more as a result of the differences between men and women. Oh, you're wrong, and if you're sincere about it, I think you must re-examine the power relationships in this society. Do you also suspect that the disparity between black leads and white leads in films is the result of the difference between black people and white people?

    And btw, those differences should be celebrated. It's good that we are different and complementary. I find it sad that people are trying to blur the lines between genders personally. I won't address that, but it's a thought that leads straight to incel or masculinism discourse and that's a bomb I have no time to diffuse.
     
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  25. Violenza Domestica Registered User

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    You mean the post you replied to with "whatever" because you couldn't read it?

    Another thing I despise in life is counter-performative people (people who say you should do one thing, but do the opposite ; people who say you shouldn't do the thing they themselves do).

    "Watch and like what I like, or you're a bad person."

    I've been part of this board for long enough for you to know that I don't care what you watch. But I guess that's not exactly what you meant by imposing my beliefs on everyone else. So you're a bad person if you don't think like me, and that's terrible, but you calling me a snowflake twice or thrice for not thinking like you is ok? You want to discuss holding a logical argument? Difference is, I do think there's a little asshole-ry in the discourse you hold, so I might insult you a little. You insult me because you can't defend that discourse.

    "go out and buy 1000 tickets"

    So after you've suggested a few times that I produce a film, hire actresses with Brad Pitt money, you want me to buy 1000 tickets? But...

    So which is it? Again, you want to discuss holding a logical argument?




    (just because I don't want to have to re-explain, let's recap: that's twice you've been counter-performative, time to clean up your act)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020

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