Post-Game Talk: Pens vs. Caps for the 80th time

[ChaosAgent]

I've been a Pens fan for a long time, long before 'the core' got to the scene. I'm not a homer for any player. The current fanbase treats the 'core' the same as they do the team. A lot of the older group is gone and what's taken their place are spoiled brats who demand success daily and whine when they don't get it. Going by the posts here, a large portion simply hate the team. I can't understand the vitriol any other way. Either way, the discussion is infantile and a lot of the classic posts don't seem to post as much. Threads devolve into negative and shallow discussion.

Purely from a hockey standpoint, 87 and 71 don't need to be top 5 for us to be successful. And neither are near the point where we'd be better off without them than with. When we reach that point the organization will and should revisit it. The non-stop trashing of the team when they lose is not worth my time.

I'm just making an assessment that the team, particularly the supporting cast of wingers, is built around the notion that 87 and 71 are still top-something. 5, 10, 20. Whatever that is. And they aren't.

And that isn't their fault or it also doesn't mean that they aren't on the Penguins Mt. Rushmore. But just stating a fact that they aren't at that level and as such this team's ceiling is quite low.

Also, your "revere the core or you're a spoiled child" stance is directly contradicted by your nonstop trashing of Letang. And the intelligent commentariat are not universal in their praise for the Penguins, especially the play of 71 this year.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Suggesting trading a core piece is not "crying" or childlike behavior. I just think it would help at this current time. Don't try to censor people just because they see the team differently than you.

And you also don't know if it's a terrible take until you've witnessed the results it could bring. Nobody on this board knows. You're just guessing and getting emotional over attachment to a player.

But by all means, take a break if you're so delicate that you can't handle strong, contrasting opinions about the team.

Reading through several pages of hot takes wasn't limited to your post. There has been plenty of crying and trashing of the team and players on this board recently and it's old I'm not delicate nor am I emotional, just tired of reading posts from fans who seem to hate the team and demand constant success or else. Too many posts fit into that category. I enjoy hockey and love the game and the team. Why would I spend my time reading that kind of negativity? I'm not talking about well-thought out trade suggestions. You're really laying it on thick to characterize a lot of these posts as strong constrasting takes on the team. When people post that a player is garbage and trash and the team sucks and the players don't give a shit it's over the top and not worth my time. I enjoy reading posts from the old timers who think before posting and who have knowledge of the game. And who actually like the team.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I'm just making an assessment that the team, particularly the supporting cast of wingers, is built around the notion that 87 and 71 are still top-something. 5, 10, 20. Whatever that is. And they aren't.

And that isn't their fault or it also doesn't mean that they aren't on the Penguins Mt. Rushmore. But just stating a fact that they aren't at that level and as such this team's ceiling is quite low.

Also, your "revere the core or you're a spoiled child" stance is directly contradicted by your nonstop trashing of Letang. And the intelligent commentariat are not universal in their praise for the Penguins, especially the play of 71 this year.

You seem eager to address it. I don't trash Letang. I've called him irresponsible and not a player who helps our team. As recently as last year he was that. I said if he changed his game it would help the Penguins and ensure he was a useful member of the team. I've also said I don't consider him to be on the level of Crosby and Malkin as far as the team's legacy. I don't recall 'trashing' Letang, but you can bring up some old posts if you like.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I'm just making an assessment that the team, particularly the supporting cast of wingers, is built around the notion that 87 and 71 are still top-something. 5, 10, 20. Whatever that is. And they aren't.

And that isn't their fault or it also doesn't mean that they aren't on the Penguins Mt. Rushmore. But just stating a fact that they aren't at that level and as such this team's ceiling is quite low.

Also, your "revere the core or you're a spoiled child" stance is directly contradicted by your nonstop trashing of Letang. And the intelligent commentariat are not universal in their praise for the Penguins, especially the play of 71 this year.

Once again you are exaggerating and not characterizing my posts accurately. I don't think I've ever said you need to revere the core or you're a spoiled child. Please don't argue against straw men. There's a wide gap of reasonable takes in between those extremes.

 

[ChaosAgent]

You seem eager to address it. I don't trash Letang. I've called him irresponsible and not a player who helps our team. As recently as last year he was that. I said if he changed his game it would help the Penguins and ensure he was a useful member of the team. I've also said I don't consider him to be on the level of Crosby and Malkin as far as the team's legacy. I don't recall 'trashing' Letang, but you can bring up some old posts if you like.

Ok great, so you acknowledge it's okay to shred a player who has accomplished everything to this team because of the magical dividing line in your head that says he's below the bar of "can be criticized."

But Geno's above it.

For the record, I think Geno cares. I think Geno wants to win. I just think Geno is old and getting comparatively shower and isn't generating very much anymore, and I've really struggled to buy into the Malkin persecution complex around his wingers when they've been Jason Zucker and Bryan Rust.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Again, suggesting trading a core piece is not whining. Stop labeling it as such just because you want to vent on me and the board.

I've been watching since 1993. I'm not a newer fan or a spoiled brat, so bugger off with that garbage. This is simply what I feel would help at the current time, and I felt that for a while now. I don't like Malkin's trajectory this year, and therefore the team's playoff aspirations.

It's not vitriol. He's an asset and I think this is the right time to get something back that could help us and change the way this team plays a bit.

Think you're too eager to label people you don't agree with and not actually thinking about what they're saying. Open your mind a little.

I don't think I've ever said trading a core piece is whining. I've suggested trading Malkin and Letang myself. Nor was I addressing your post with that statement. Read through these game threads and post game threads and I challenge you to 'think' about what someone is saying who says the team sucks, players don't care, player x is a piece of garbage etc. Those posts don't deserve me thinking about them as reasoned and knowledgeable posts. I just get tired of reading it.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Reading through several pages of hot takes wasn't limited to your post. There has been plenty of crying and trashing of the team and players on this board recently and it's old I'm not delicate nor am I emotional, just tired of reading posts from fans who seem to hate the team and demand constant success or else. Too many posts fit into that category. I enjoy hockey and love the game and the team. Why would I spend my time reading that kind of negativity? I'm not talking about well-thought out trade suggestions. You're really laying it on thick to characterize a lot of these posts as strong constrasting takes on the team. When people post that a player is garbage and trash and the team sucks and the players don't give a shit it's over the top and not worth my time. I enjoy reading posts from the old timers who think before posting and who have knowledge of the game. And who actually like the team.

A lot of the old timers also are locked into their way of thinking and offer no flexibility for new ideas. That's the downside.
I got slammed by a few of these people yesterday.
Suggesting trading someone is not negative by nature. It's an idea to bring positive change.

While I agree that there's more trolls and hateful people than ever, they can simply be blocked. I have a fair number of them on my list, and am thinking of adding more.

Best way to bring more constructive conversations is to be an example. I have always tried to support my points and read people's posts with objectivity. I am human though, and sometimes lose my cool when people are assholes to me or try to censor me for speaking my mind. So I'll apologize for anything I said along those lines, but those people had it coming after insulting my intelligence just because I have a different view of our team.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Ok great, so you acknowledge it's okay to shred a player who has accomplished everything to this team because of the magical dividing line in your head that says he's below the bar of "can be criticized."

But Geno's above it.

For the record, I think Geno cares. I think Geno wants to win. I just think Geno is old and getting comparatively shower and isn't generating very much anymore, and I've really struggled to buy into the Malkin persecution complex around his wingers when they've been Jason Zucker and Bryan Rust.

Look, I'm not sure why you insist on characterizing my view this way. What are you talking about? Calling a player irresponsible is 'shredding' them? I've criticized all players on the team, when I feel they deserve it. But it's with respect for what they've done. Including Letang. My posts in this thread are about posters who show no respect for the team or the players. Do you understand? I don't have a dividing line. When you trash the players and the team, I feel as you aren't actually a fan. Why cheer if you hate them so much? Those aren't reasonable takes, reasoned trade suggestions, or intelligent disagreements. Like I said I don't see some of the old posters around as much and I think the quality has gone down. The threads are hard for me to read.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Ok great, so you acknowledge it's okay to shred a player who has accomplished everything to this team because of the magical dividing line in your head that says he's below the bar of "can be criticized."

But Geno's above it.

For the record, I think Geno cares. I think Geno wants to win. I just think Geno is old and getting comparatively shower and isn't generating very much anymore, and I've really struggled to buy into the Malkin persecution complex around his wingers when they've been Jason Zucker and Bryan Rust.

It's not just that. By his own admission he came into this season out of shape, while last season he was in the best shape of his life. He's much slower this year. That's too short of a period for this level of decline.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

A lot of the old timers also are locked into their way of thinking and offer no flexibility for new ideas. That's the downside.
I got slammed by a few of these people yesterday.
Suggesting trading someone is not negative by nature. It's an idea to bring positive change.

While I agree that there's more trolls and hateful people than ever, they can simply be blocked. I have a fair number of them on my list, and am thinking of adding more.

Best way to bring more constructive conversations is to be an example. I have always tried to support my points and read people's posts with objectivity. I am human though, and sometimes lose my cool when people are assholes to me or try to censor me for speaking my mind. So I'll apologize for anything I said along those lines, but those people had it coming after insulting my intelligence just because I have a different view of our team.

Like I said I have no problem with people offering reasoned opinions and trade suggestions. Differing opinions make everything interesting. I've suggested trading both Malkin and Letang. I'm talking about people who troll and flood the threads with bashing of the players and team. I could block them but the list would be long and honestly I don't feel as if I should have to do that on a board that has the history this one does. I've mostly lurked for years and I don't remember the board being this way. Maybe it's something to do with social media influence on younger people. Either way I don't like. That's all.

 

[LOGiK]

When the rags beat down the bruins. (and I won money betting on the rags in regs =])

I don't think any team in the metro is unbeaten against any other team so far.

The ones that played each other at least.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Look, I'm not sure why you insist on characterizing my view this way. What are you talking about? Calling a player irresponsible is 'shredding' them? I've criticized all players on the team, when I feel they deserve it. But it's with respect for what they've done. Including Letang. My posts in this thread are about posters who show no respect for the team or the players. Do you understand? I don't have a dividing line. When you trash the players and the team, I feel as you aren't actually a fan. Why cheer if you hate them so much? Those aren't reasonable takes, reasoned trade suggestions, or intelligent disagreements. Like I said I don't see some of the old posters around as much and I think the quality has gone down. The threads are hard for me to read.

There's only like 1-2 players on this roster I actively dislike. Probably Jankowski and that's it honestly. I thought I'd hate Matheson - I hated the trade -but he has blown me away so far. Petts is meh but he's definitely an NHL player.

I don't know, maybe some of the old, true, smart, knowledgeable posters have a more mature assessment of all the players.

I have a bit more of an issue with the organization than the players individually. They carry themselves like temporarily-displaced champions. It just reeks through the broadcasts. And then you look at how a team like Boston blows them out of the water and it's very clear that they aren't even close. If they organization acted like "yes we're a bubble team and we have to elevate our game and get things clicking to get to the playoffs and make some noise there" I'd like them a lot more. Instead there's the attitude that they are living legends and as such they are a given to go far.

Look: I'm active in the Pirates thread. They are going to go .300 this year and I ain't even mad. I can be a sports masochist. Just stop acting like you're at the apex when you're middle of the pack.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

For the record, the 'you' at the end of my post was an impersonal you, not directed at your posts. I don't think the new management views the stars as at the apex, and they haven't been here long enough to be judged as acting like the Penguins are a contender. I happen to think they can be with a few moves but the tone from the new managers seems to be 'wait and see' for now with big moves on the horizon potentially. They've made clear Crosby is the only untouchable and neither guy seems to be shy about moving on without sentiment from any other player. If the Penguins don't do well this year I expect major moves next year. I also have no problem making a business decision about the core players. I just don't think we're at that point after 17 games and it's a little disheartening to see so many people ready to cut sling on a couple legends when both haven't even been that bad. This is the most responsible I've seen Letang in ages.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Like I said I have no problem with people offering reasoned opinions and trade suggestions. Differing opinions make everything interesting. I've suggested trading both Malkin and Letang. I'm talking about people who troll and flood the threads with bashing of the players and team. I could block them but the list would be long and honestly I don't feel as if I should have to do that on a board that has the history this one does. I've mostly lurked for years and I don't remember the board being this way. Maybe it's something to do with social media influence on younger people. Either way I don't like. That's all.

It wasn't this way over 3 years ago when I joined. That's why I came here in the first place. It was so different from reddit.

But those were better times for the team and their failures since have brought out the negative Nancies again.

Almost all fan bases and forums are like this though. We're no exception. Some are far worse.

 

[LOGiK]

For the record, the 'you' at the end of my post was an impersonal you, not directed at your posts. I don't think the new management views the stars as at the apex, and they haven't been here long enough to be judged as acting like the Penguins are a contender. I happen to think they can be with a few moves but the tone from the new managers seems to be 'wait and see' for now with big moves on the horizon potentially. They've made clear Crosby is the only untouchable and neither guy seems to be shy about moving on without sentiment from any other player. If the Penguins don't do well this year I expect major moves next year. I also have no problem making a business decision about the core players. I just don't think we're at that point after 17 games and it's a little disheartening to see so many people ready to cut sling on a couple legends when both haven't even been that bad. This is the most responsible I've seen Letang in ages.

hah!

Good one

 

[Night Shift]

they can simply be blocked. I have a fair number of them on my list, and am thinking of adding more

Announcing block lists and who I'm gunna block next must be a generation Z thing.

 

[LOGiK]

It wasn't this way over 3 years ago when I joined. That's why I came here in the first place. It was so different from reddit.

But those were better times for the team and their failures since have brought out the negative Nancies again.

Almost all fan bases and forums are like this though. We're no exception. Some are far worse.

Love it or leave it - as they say

 

[LOGiK]

Announcing block lists and who I'm gunna block next must be a generation Z thing.

I don't get the blocking thing around here.

In all my years I've added not a one soul. Plus what good is blocking your nemesis poster? Then you can't see all their ridiculous posts and hammer them back.... thats half the fun of board posting - which I know for certain I'm on my enemies block list. S/he whose name will not be named =P

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Announcing block lists and who I'm gunna block next must be a generation Z thing.

Was just suggesting the guy filter some people out. It's not like I named people on mine

But yes, it does dramatically improve the quality of posts on the board.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don't get the blocking thing around here.

In all my years I've added not a one soul. Plus what good is blocking your nemesis poster? Then you can't see all their ridiculous posts and hammer them back.... thats half the fun of board posting - which I know for certain I'm on my enemies block list. S/he whose name will not be named =P

I just block the worthless trolls who don't entertain me, or people who attack me personally over and over. Only a few of those over the years, fortunately. Don't want to get sucked into nonsense. I don't block anyone I have contrasting views of the team with. Not that petty.

 

[Night Shift]

Was just suggesting the guy filter some people out. It's not like I named people on mine

But yes, it does dramatically improve the quality of posts on the board.

You're still talking about it

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You're still talking about it

Good eye. Well done.

 

[LOGiK]

I just block the worthless trolls who don't entertain me, or people who attack me personally over and over. Only a few of those over the years, fortunately. Don't want to get sucked into nonsense. I don't block anyone I have contrasting views of the team with. Not that petty.

Yeah, I get that.
I don't mind the lunacy though... when I do I just scroll right on by. Not wanting to get dragged into things I can see.

But then again, some posters put real time and effort into their discussions and I can see getting flamed for that getting rather tiresome after so long. Sayyyyyy the prospect guys or cap guys... I hardly know enough any more to get involved in those discussions. Maybe 10 years ago, when I knew every player on every team (in part because of playing hockey games and watching games around the league - both which I seldom do any more).

The full moon and b2b games against the isles this weekend may bring out the full on death spiral posters if the penguins lose both of these games.... haha

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The full moon and b2b games against the isles this weekend may bring out the full on death spiral posters if the penguins lose both of these games.... haha

Well if/when that happens, at least that means people still care about the Pens.
Apathy would be much worse.

 

[Tender Rip]

I want to mention, for the record, that the best team in our division just lost 7-2 and 6-2 on consecutive nights against the Isles and Rangers.

One can make of it what one will, but the conclusion should not be that Boston has a crappy team, coach, management or need to blow it all up. I’m just saying.