Post-Game Talk: Pens vs. Caps for the 80th time

[CrosbyMalkin]

JR never really thought that far ahead. He was playing checkers when he should have been playing chess.

I think you need to go back to checkers.

 

[ncm7772]

Go root for another f***ing team if they piss you off so much.

I’ve always wondered why he doesn’t do that.

 

[vyktor]

Sid has owned that spot on the PP for most of his career. We don't really know how things would work with him being moved to the net-front. Zucker would have been good for our zone entries and simplification imo. For the record I also firmly believe Kap should replace Rust on the left.

When was the last time we've had a one-timer option on the right or left walls? Kessel certainly didn't do it. Rust isn't doing it. Crosby isn't doing it. Why can other teams have those options and we have to funnel everything through Malkin? Just playing into the opponent's hands with that level of predictability.

We can't break down coverage at all because we don't shoot when the PK's are on the run.

The predictability is the thing that is the most frustrating. The PK ers can tell from their stick and body position that Geno, Letang and company are in no position to shoot quickly and they have plenty of time to adjust when they do finally gather in the puck and shoot or after they have passed a bunch of times and telegraph that now they are in one timer position.

 

[Angrrus]

O'Connor should get his ass shipped to the AHL tomorrow for taking that penalty in the 3rd

I wish Malkin and Letang got this same kind of treatment each time they take equally stupid and costly penalty.

 

[Angrrus]

Everyone of those guys makes a pretty great living playing a child’s game. I don’t know if “losers” is the appropriate term.

So who then does it make "losers"? Us? For naively watching these lazy millioners casually go through the motions on the ice, and for caring?

 

[Angrrus]

Anyone else want to try and tell me that we're having unrealistic expectations about the 4th line and how they're actually fine?

They're atrocious. Actively losing this team games.

Oh this fanbase! They will stubbornly keep laming anyone and anything in the world, except the ones who are REALLY responsible: underperforming and underproducing star players.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

For sure, the what if's are tough in this case.

Not really. Because the what ifs have been all damn season with usage. Even if he got rocked by Wilson, Jankowski continuing to play and be awful most of the time is funny to see given how short a lease he gives people for doing less than Jankowski has done or rather hasn't done on the ice.

But it must be nice when the coach loves scrubs with that size and speed.

 

[Angrrus]

f***ing Doozer-ass brittle sticks


No reason to get irate. Jarry looked good. Their Jarry was a little better.

Is Guentzel still limited by that injury? That's alarming if so.

No, he just got paid big time. Why worry any more?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Oh this fanbase! They will stubbornly keep laming anyone and anything in the world, except the ones who are REALLY responsible: underperforming and underproducing star players.

Misuse of the lineup is a major factor here that you can't ignore even if the star players are not performing because that contributes to that problem directly.

You can have the right players and put them in the wrong mix for line ups.

 

[Angrrus]

Misuse of the lineup is a major factor here that you can't ignore even if the star players are not performing because that contributes to that problem directly.

You can have the right players and put them in the wrong mix for line ups.

My point is: if star players score as many as they are sopposed to - and consistently - we are not sitting here and not talking about injuries and 4th lines.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

So Zucker would not only join the #1PP, but take over Crosby's spot?

Zucker, who never scored more than 16 PP points in a season?

See, this is the problem in thinking an LH shot is going to help our PP. If we were going to move Crosby for anyone it should have been Galchenyuk, who's historically been a lot better than Zucker on the PP. But honestly, he isn't good enough to warrant moving Crosby either.

Zucker played with Minnesota before. He didn't have this skill level on his PP unit before.
It's not the fact that he's a left shot, but rather that he has the hardest/most accurate slapshot after Malkin among the forwards, and we didn't take advantage of this ability.

What's wrong with Crosby being the net-front? He's strong as an ox, has elite balance, has the best eye-hand on the team, can screen and win rebounds. I don't see anything wrong with moving Sid when we're 25th in the league. Is there something to lose at this point? It's clearly not working. All Sid currently does is recover loose pucks and get it back to the point.

Zucker is much stronger than Galchenyuk on the walls and more responsible with possession. I don't see why you look down on him so much. He's a very good player, even if we didn't get to see it much in his 17 games this year.

It'd be great to have a one-timer option but it's not going to happen with Zucker in Crosby's spot, but more importantly, even if we did move Zucker there we still wouldn't have anyone competent on the left half wall. Round and round we go.

We can't break down coverage because there's an entire side of the ice that the team can't exploit properly.

Why wouldn't it happen? The guy's scored 33 before. If Reirden told them to change their dynamic then that's what'd they'd try to do.

As for the left wall, Kapanen should at least be tried there now. I see no reason why he'd be worse than Rust. He has faster hands than Rust, has a better slapshot and isn't afraid to use it. I'm more skeptical on his ability to work with that unit than Zucker, but again, we have no traction right now and won't lose anything by trying.

If Sullivan wasn't such a coward he would put his favorites/loyalty aside and try new approaches. Matheson's another option for that unit.

 

[Angrrus]

job one should be improving the top six...too many opportunities and no scoring...then L4

Yeah we don't have enough star power in our top 6. You know the kind of guys like that Crosby guy and that Malkin guy. After all, it's top stars who drive the scoring and score lion's share of team points and goals. Oh, wait...

 

[Ryder71]

I like the division. It's pretty stacked and for the most part big, physical and with a lot of skill. The Devils and Islanders are a bit boring and the Sabres are meh. The Bruins Flyers and Caps all play exciting games.

Yeah, no, not really.

 

[Ryder71]

It will hapen to you of your top three star players take every other night off.

It's very arguable that any of our top six are living up to even reasonable expectations. Jake is starting to come around but Geno has been bad and Sid has certainly been underwhelming himself. I don't think anyone can honestly suggest that our stars are playing anywhere close to the level they should be playing at.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Zucker played with Minnesota before. He didn't have this skill level on his PP unit before.
It's not the fact that he's a left shot, but rather that he has the hardest/most accurate slapshot after Malkin among the forwards, and we didn't take advantage of this ability.

If the past two seasons have taught Pens fans anything, it's that skill alone is not going to make the PP work.

Why wouldn't it happen? The guy's scored 33 before. If Reirden told them to change their dynamic then that's what'd they'd try to do.

As for the left wall, Kapanen should at least be tried there now. I see no reason why he'd be worse than Rust. He has faster hands than Rust, has a better slapshot and isn't afraid to use it. I'm more skeptical on his ability to work with that unit than Zucker, but again, we have no traction right now and won't lose anything by trying.

If Sullivan wasn't such a coward he would put his favorites/loyalty aside and try new approaches. Matheson's another option for that unit.

I mean, try it. Try the Zucker thing too.

But this team needs the sort of skilled RH shot they don't have right now, and Kapanen ain't it. They simply don't have the horses right now.

 

[ss53mech]

I pointed out in one of my posts today that they are taking every other night off. If you think this is ok, if you that we must expect them to sdhow up only in 50% of games for the amount of cap space they are eating - then I'm speechless, I don't know what else to say to you.

Say what you want but a majority of your posts don't represent that. Your point has been that the superstars aren't superstars at all. Which you are entitled to that position, and I won't try to talk you out of it. Nor will I agree the extent to which you represent them as the problem. They certainly need to be better for this team to be dominant. Them and quite a few others. There is a bit of group think here that I agree with. The two big guys are beyond the capability to simply will this team to success. Your perspective seems to represent them carrying the team as an expectation. Good luck with that.

 

[ss53mech]

Not really. Because the what ifs have been all damn season with usage. Even if he got rocked by Wilson, Jankowski continuing to play and be awful most of the time is funny to see given how short a lease he gives people for doing less than Jankowski has done or rather hasn't done on the ice.

But it must be nice when the coach loves scrubs with that size and speed.

Sir, I read a lot of your stuff. FWIW I really appreciate that even when your posts come off as emotionally charged they seem to be thought out (even if I don't agree with the end perception).

I am not quite as frustrated as you seem to be with Sully. There are certainly flaws he needs to address. But, if you will entertain it, I would like to present a thought process which defends (not dismisses) his inconsistent accountability. I'm a military guy, obviously accountability is huge with us. But as with all organizations talent evaluation and development can't be disconnected from accountability. If you have yourself a truly outstanding member that many look up to, who commits an egregious offense, sometimes that person gets hit a little harder than the less valuable members as a means of demonstrating accountability for all. Sometimes if the offense is more minor but occurs more it might get overlooked because said offense isn't contrary to core values of an organization. In that case not much normally happens.

That's a super long way of saying, not all mistakes might warrant the same response in the coach's eyes. Dependent on who, when, nature of mistake and what has been important to the org the corrective action will vary. To your, and many others credit, I think you are on to something with him losing the room. But I believe in a different way. I think he has been too close to some problems for too long so his biases in recognition and reaction to problems is no longer addressing the mistakes that hurt the team but too often are mistakes that upset him personally.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If the past two seasons have taught Pens fans anything, it's that skill alone is not going to make the PP work.



I mean, try it. Try the Zucker thing too.

But this team needs the sort of skilled RH shot they don't have right now, and Kapanen ain't it. They simply don't have the horses right now.

What's wrong with Kappy's shot? Been fairly hard and accurate to this point I'd say. Tests the goalies for sure.
Can't say his linemates have given him enough opportunity to use it necessarily but I see no issues there. He does have a little issue with puck reception and stickhandling sometimes though , but that's usually when he's blazing down the wing and can't be McDavid.

Willingness to shoot though? No problemo. I've actually been impressed with his restraint in forcing Sid and Jake passes until the time is right. It's part of why it's working fairly well.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

What's wrong with Kappy's shot? Been fairly hard and accurate to this point I'd say. Tests the goalies for sure.
Can't say his linemates have given him enough opportunity to use it necessarily but I see no issues there. He does have a little issue with puck reception and stickhandling sometimes though , but that's usually when he's blazing down the wing and can't be McDavid.

Willingness to shoot though? No problemo. I've actually been impressed with his restraint in forcing Sid and Jake passes until the time is right. It's part of why it's working fairly well.

Kapanen has never been any sort of difference maker on the PP.

He doesn't have the necessary skill, either as a trigger man or a playmaker, to be a presence there. He's an open ice player.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Kapanen has never been any sort of difference maker on the PP.

He doesn't have the necessary skill, either as a trigger man or a playmaker, to be a presence there. He's an open ice player.

Hard to be a difference maker when you don't get used there.

While that was how he was labeled before coming here, I've actually really liked his playmaking with the Pens to this point. Among the best out of our forwards so far imo. He's got extremely quick hands when he gets possession by the walls, which make him tough to get stripped from. It gets a lot of attention from opposing D and opens up space for his linemates.

Will reserve judgment on how he will mesh on the PP until I see it. I'm hopeful.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hard to be a difference maker when you don't get used there.

While that was how he was labeled before coming here, I've actually really liked his playmaking with the Pens to this point. Among the best out of our forwards so far imo. He's got extremely quick hands when he gets possession by the walls, which make him tough to get stripped from. It gets a lot of attention from opposing D and opens up space for his linemates.

Will reserve judgment on how he will mesh on the PP until I see it. I'm hopeful.

Yeah. Pretty obvious our PP is going to stink if they aren’t willing to adapt.

Also I think saying the PP lost us the game last night is box score watching.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Sir, I read a lot of your stuff. FWIW I really appreciate that even when your posts come off as emotionally charged they seem to be thought out (even if I don't agree with the end perception).

I feel like with HOG it's more that even when the posts are thought out they are still emotionally charged.

The wanker!

Love you @Honour Over Glory. I drink to you

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Feels like you're more a fan of the core vs. the team. I love the core but I've never been about riding or dying with them until the wheels fall off and the vehicle totally crashes or still acting like 87 and 71 are top 5 players when they clearly aren't. I don't believe in an excess of sentimentality for guys you've already paid 9 figures to.

Being a Malkin fan does not mean I have to be a Malkin homer.

I've been a Pens fan for a long time, long before 'the core' got to the scene. I'm not a homer for any player. The current fanbase treats the 'core' the same as they do the team. A lot of the older group is gone and what's taken their place are spoiled brats who demand success daily and whine when they don't get it. Going by the posts here, a large portion simply hate the team. I can't understand the vitriol any other way. Either way, the discussion is infantile and a lot of the classic posts don't seem to post as much. Threads devolve into negative and shallow discussion.

Purely from a hockey standpoint, 87 and 71 don't need to be top 5 for us to be successful. And neither are near the point where we'd be better off without them than with. When we reach that point the organization will and should revisit it. The non-stop trashing of the team when they lose is not worth my time.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Bear in mind that particular poster has no problem sh1tting on Letang post after post after post because he doesn't compartmentalize him as part of the core, but will jump down your throat if you say "hey based on this year it really looks like Malkin is declining" and call you a child or something.

How people anchor and compartmentalize is part of who they are, but they may lack self-awareness about it. I don't always like myself but at least...well, I don't always like myself. And that's a good thing.

Your characterizations in this post aren't accurate at all and I'm not really sure who you're addressing.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I've been a Pens fan for a long time, long before 'the core' got to the scene. I'm not a homer for any player. The current fanbase treats the 'core' the same as they do the team. A lot of the older group is gone and what's taken their place are spoiled brats who demand success daily and whine when they don't get it. Going by the posts here, a large portion simply hate the team. I can't understand the vitriol any other way. Either way, the discussion is infantile and a lot of the classic posts don't seem to post as much. Threads devolve into negative and shallow discussion.

Purely from a hockey standpoint, 87 and 71 don't need to be top 5 for us to be successful. And neither are near the point where we'd be better off without them than with. When we reach that point the organization will and should revisit it. The non-stop trashing of the team when they lose is not worth my time.

Again, suggesting trading a core piece is not whining. Stop labeling it as such just because you want to vent on me and the board.

I've been watching since 1993. I'm not a newer fan or a spoiled brat, so bugger off with that garbage. This is simply what I feel would help at the current time, and I felt that for a while now. I don't like Malkin's trajectory this year, and therefore the team's playoff aspirations.

It's not vitriol. He's an asset and I think this is the right time to get something back that could help us and change the way this team plays a bit.

Think you're too eager to label people you don't agree with and not actually thinking about what they're saying. Open your mind a little.