Confirmed with Link: PENS/STARS TRADE: Brenden Morrow, 2013 3rd<--> Joe Morrow, 2013 5th + contract talk

Status
Not open for further replies.

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
72,188
7,742
S. Pasadena, CA
Ok, so back by popular demand (thanks Hottubber ;)), here is the re-posting of my analysis of the Joe Morrow trade.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yeah, it seems that there have been some (and mostly) fan-generated expectations of Joe Morrow. The hype got built up, and certain expectations were made by fans and posters on these boards (not the Pens' scouts, but fans) about exactly what type of player Joe Morrow was. So let's take the words from the Pens own scouts & management....

At the time of the draft, they did some draft videos with Randy Sexton. Upon being interviewed, Sexton described Morrow as more of a trigger-man, and not so much of a quarter-back. Obviously, Joe still has overall skills that will help him be effective on a PP, but fans & posters on this board devised their own expectations of Joe Morrow that were not necessarily on the same page as the Pens' own views of this player. (and I like Joe Morrow, so I'm just giving the unbiased reality-check here)

I also said after the draft, when a lot of people were lamenting the selections of Pouliot at #8 and two Dmen overall in the 1st round of the draft, that: "If the Pens really felt that Joe Morrow was the next Duncan Keith, and Simon Despres was the next Brent Seabrook" (i.e. elite, all-world, first-pairing Dmen) "then the Pens would probably not have drafted 2 more Dmen in the first round". To this statement, the responses that I got were mostly of the "that's a good & vaild point" variety.

The truth is: Morrow is NOT an elite prospect (aka blue-chip, top-15/20 prospect in the league overall, etc). For example, he did not make last year's WJC Olympic team or named top 1 or 2 Dmen in the WHL last year). Now the difference is: Simon Despres has stepped in and surprised all of us with either just how good he has been this year, or how quickly & seamlessly he has transition. Harrington has continued his ascension into one of the best (and seemingly most underrated) prospects in the league, and Pouliot and Maatta have also continued to improve their stock and gain experience. We have also had a guy like Robert Bortuzzo step in and, despite not getting enough ice-time to go around, we know this guy is a legit NHL defenseman for us, and potentially for a long time; and even a surprise like Samuelsson, a great debut as a pro for Biran Dumoulin, and maybe a real decent prospect in D
Agostino. Morrow, conversely, didn't open new eyes this year as an elite prospect. And while this doesn't mean that he can't become a great player one day, his ultimate/overall upside may not be as high as some of the other guys in our system

And then, the most forgotten men in this: Paul Martin and Matt Niskanen: 1) Martin: the way he has turned his game around and contributed 5-on-5, PK, and perhaps most surprisingly the PP, suggests that this is a player who may very well not only finish out his contract here in PGH, but perhaps even be extended (Brooks and his salary will be gone by then, and hopefully the cap bounces up after next year, etc.). Martin has been a revelation, and has taken that right-side & PP spot for the next few years that some may have had Joe Morrow pencilled in for. 2) Matt Niskanen has FULLY turned around from being a reclammation project to a full-blown legit top-4 Dman who can play right or left side, and can play on the PP unit. He's also a better PK & 5-v-5 player than Morrow is now, even if he doesn't have quite the shot or quite the speed. So again, Niskanen may very well be a player that we look to extend for several more seasons. So when you factor in even one, or perhaps both, of Martin & Nisky, PLUS all the other great prospects we have on D, Morrow may not have really had a spot here. (Yes, he was one of our "top-6 prospects", but obviously wans't one of our top-6 Dmen in our organization overall when you factorin in guys who could be here medium-long term: Letang, Niskanen, Martin, Despres, Pouliot, Dumoulin, Bortuzzo, Maatta, Samuelsson and D'Agostino. Of that group, Morrow may well have been rated #7 or #8)

And of course: I would have rather traded Morrow for an established guy like Stewart or Iginla, or top prospect like Coyle, Niederreiter or Filip Forsberg ;), but he's not a top-tier guy like them, and obviously those guys were not available for the price Shero was willing to pay. And while Shero didn't mention the other guys they were looking at, but Brendan was the player we could get who would help our team now and wouldn't really hurt it in the long run. And let's not forget: this is a deep draft, and moving from the 5th round up to the 3rd does help. We may very well be able to find the next Morrow or GoGo to replace them with one of our 3rd round picks, or have those picks be used in a move-up scenario.

And finally, I will end my treatise here: people are forgetting the much maligned Tyler Kennedy. It's very possible that Brendan Morrow essentially bumps TK out of the 3rd line spot (Bennet would skate on RW there, his natural position), and TK could absolutely garner something like a 3rd round pick, or even a 2nd rounder, this year, because he is not a rental and is an RFA this year. So the deal *might* essentially be Brendan Morrow + 3rd rounder (plus another 2nd/3rd rounder) for Joe Morrow, because people wanted Kennedy out anyway.

And to add a point from the Murray thread that I posted: it's still very possible that we move out RFAs like Jeffrey and/or TK in the summer, or move a guy like Orpik, or less likely Niskanen, who are guys that still have term left on their deals (and this probability increases if we were to end up retaining Brendan Morrow, D. Murray, or sign another UFA like Iginla, etc). So while I'm not too happy with giving up two 2nds for Murray, we may make some other moves that very quickly make us forget about those draft picks. So we'll need to wait and see how things unfold in the larger picture (i.e. how we perform in this playoff run, and what other trades/signings we make prior to the draft or in the summertime) before we can properly assess everything that has happened this far. There are still a lot of moving parts, so we'll have to see how things go and exactly where we are in terms of asset management, draft picks & prospects, and player/personnel, when the dust settles after the summer and when next season begins.

I love you.
 

Master Shake*

Guest
Maybe Shero knows something we do not

about Joe Morrow. Maybe I am just trying to talk myself into finding more reasons to like the trade rather than dislike. But I cant help but have the vague sensation that Shero just dumped a prospect he does not think is going to pan out as a top 4 guy.

Its funny because Morrow reminded me of a young Al Iafrate in alot of ways before he was drafted. Will be interesting to see what happens in his career

Trades like this do put fans in a strange position. For now . If we do not win a Cup with B.Morrow, most Pens fans will probably hope Joe is a bust. Not out of personal malice but out of hope we did not give up a future star

http://stars.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=661929

In his first year of pro hockey there’s been an adjustment, especially on the defensive side of things. There were some healthy scratches along the way as the coaching staff worked with him to get his defensive game in order.

“I definitely struggled the first half of the season trying to find my place and find positives in what I was doing,” Morrow said. “They nitpicked my game so hard in the defensive zone that I had to change a lot of things. I did that and after the halfway point of the season I’ve played with more confidence and it’s been a steady uphill climb from there. It’s been going good.”
 

Master Shake*

Guest
Gosselin thanks Morrow will be put in Stars lineup by next year. If so we will get a look to see if Shero made the right call.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/da...playing-for-the-dallas-stars-by-this-time.ece

Should Stars fans believe that we would actually keep Joe Morrow when he develops or trade him like we have most other young players who develop well with the Stars and are playing well now around the league?

The new owner knows the status quo isn't working and is pushing for a younger roster. The GM is complying. I'd be surprised if Joe Morrow isn't taking a regular turn on this defense next season.
 

sf expat71

Registered User
Nov 10, 2008
3,038
8
Atlantic Ocean
about Joe Morrow. Maybe I am just trying to talk myself into finding more reasons to like the trade rather than dislike. But I cant help but have the vague sensation that Shero just dumped a prospect he does not think is going to pan out as a top 4 guy.

Its funny because Morrow reminded me of a young Al Iafrate in alot of ways before he was drafted. Will be interesting to see what happens in his career

Trades like this do put fans in a strange position. For now . If we do not win a Cup with B.Morrow, most Pens fans will probably hope Joe is a bust. Not out of personal malice but out of hope we did not give up a future star

Honestly, I think it's just the price in this market. Everyone still has a chance, so much so that an expendable, no-longer core guy like brendan morrow nets a top prospect. At the same time, we do have a lot of defensive prospects, and we can probably afford to lose one without suffering in long term depth. I don't mind this trade so much, because at worst, our bottom 6 improves. the duggernaut trade on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. IMO we already rely too much on our top four, and to add a defenseman who I don't think can take a regular shift, no matter how incredible/amazing/incorrigible their pk and crease clearing skills are, is too risky.
Personally, I hope Joe Morrow succeeds and becomes a top four ppqb kind of guy, because a) the perceived value of the Pens' defensive prospects increases, and b) he didn't ask for the trade and I harbor no ill will towards him personally.
 

madinsomniac

Registered User
Jul 3, 2012
12,854
3,022
Pittsburgh, Pa
Excerpt from ESPN :
_ One thing to know about the Morrow trade: The Stars didn’t ask him to waive his no-trade clause for either Boston or Pittsburgh. They only presented him with the Penguins' trade scenario. Yes, the Bruins made an offer for Morrow, but the Stars only asked Morrow to waive on the Pittsburgh deal, feeling the Penguins' offer was better, and that’s the one they wanted him to accept.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So there was a bit of a bidding war and this was a guy that the top threat to the Pens in the east was after.
 

AZPenguins

Registered User
Aug 25, 2009
1,125
0
Tempe, AZ
Excerpt from ESPN :
_ One thing to know about the Morrow trade: The Stars didn’t ask him to waive his no-trade clause for either Boston or Pittsburgh. They only presented him with the Penguins' trade scenario. Yes, the Bruins made an offer for Morrow, but the Stars only asked Morrow to waive on the Pittsburgh deal, feeling the Penguins' offer was better, and that’s the one they wanted him to accept.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So there was a bit of a bidding war and this was a guy that the top threat to the Pens in the east was after.

That is odd seeing how he said he chose Pittsburgh during his press conference.
 

clefty

Retrovertigo
Dec 24, 2003
18,009
3
Visit site
Well, obviously he did since he had to waive his clause to come here. He could have said he didn't want to. That's the choice.
 

WayneSid9987

Registered User
Nov 24, 2009
30,053
5,676
Yea, Shero actually said how it went down.
Joe Nieuwendyk was fielding offers and liked Pittsburgh's so presented it to Morrow. Morrow talked it over with his family and said yes.
 

Le Magnifique 66

Let's Go Pens
Jun 9, 2006
23,635
3,281
Montreal
Yea, Shero actually said how it went down.
Joe Nieuwendyk was fielding offers and liked Pittsburgh's so presented it to Morrow. Morrow talked it over with his family and said yes.

I heard that Guerin had a big say in this as well selling it to Ray

I hope he can convince him to stay for a couple of years
 

WayneSid9987

Registered User
Nov 24, 2009
30,053
5,676
I have a feeling he's going to have a great game tonight.

He does very well with star players.
Put up great numbers at the Olympics.
This also probably factored in to RS's decision.

I believe he'll do very well here as well if his body can hold up which i think it will. Mike Kadar can work wonders.
 

Captain Hook

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
15,458
390
We'll see. I have hopes for Morrow to succeed as a 3rd wheel with Malkin and Neal. Malkin is still on IR though.
 

specialized

Registered User
Jan 24, 2013
830
0
With any luck Joe Morrow will be the next Noah Welch, remember the Pittsburgh out cry when when traded him away for some washed up winger named Gary Roberts
 

roready

Brink, Truth, Life
Jul 10, 2012
479
0
iligbpa
WELCOME to Pittsburgh, Brenden Morrow!

I hope you have a great time here, and I hope you get at least one Cup with us.

Hopefully that Cup gets filled this year here. Just be careful when Douglas Murray does a cannonball with it in Mario's pool. We don't want anyone to get hurt.

Good luck tonight and for the rest of the time you are here with the Pens!

Let's Go Pens!
 

Mo Wanchuk

Embrace the Hate
Mar 16, 2009
1,944
0
Palm Isle
With any luck Joe Morrow will be the next Noah Welch, remember the Pittsburgh out cry when when traded him away for some washed up winger named Gary Roberts

Why? He didn't request the trade. :shakehead


I hope he lives up to his potential. Seems like a good guy. Wish him the best.
 

plaidchuck

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
5,638
0
Pittsburgh
Yeah you don't want to wish for a prospect not to be successful. Just gotta hope Morrow here contributes and does what he was brought in to do.
 

metalan2

Registered User
May 30, 2008
9,516
3,021
Line combos?


Morrow with Sid, Dupuis down to third, TK to fourth, Glass scratched?
 

DoktorZaius

Registered User
Feb 7, 2013
3,833
41
Line combos?


Morrow with Sid, Dupuis down to third, TK to fourth, Glass scratched?
Morrow w/ Neal and Jeffrey. 87's line has a certain level of speed as a prerequisite. The way I look at our top line, it can kill you off the rush or off the cycle, so you don't want to marginalize one of its strengths. On the other hand, Morrow planting himself near the net may open up some space for Nealer to get his shot away.
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,023
67,649
Pittsburgh
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/26/penguins-shero-on-making-more-moves-you-never-know/

Judging from this article Ray Shero says he could still be in the market for a 4th liner or a 2nd line winger. That would indicate to me that he does not see Morrow as a 2nd line winger.

So yeah we paid that for a 3rd liner.

Give me a break with that. Let's see what he does and how he fills in on this team. It sounds like you want it to fail just in principle. I hated the value, too, but that's because I really thought Morrow was a future stud here. Granted - I was basing that off SOLELY how he played in pre-season games and camp.

Who knows.. maybe Morrow ends up a bust and people are saying "Wow.. we gave up THAT for Morrow." Or maybe he's a great player and then we can revisit at that time.
 

LetangInTheSO

Registered User
Oct 17, 2008
2,094
0
Give me a break with that. Let's see what he does and how he fills in on this team. It sounds like you want it to fail just in principle. I hated the value, too, but that's because I really thought Morrow was a future stud here. Granted - I was basing that off SOLELY how he played in pre-season games and camp.

Who knows.. maybe Morrow ends up a bust and people are saying "Wow.. we gave up THAT for Morrow." Or maybe he's a great player and then we can revisit at that time.

Agreed. And frankly, if Morrow finds a home on the third line, I'm all for it. Sutter is a great player and unfortunately Cooke/TK have been black holes next to him until TK started worrying about his job about a week ago. If the third line becomes an actual threat to score a goal - or at minimum if it starts finding ways to cycle pucks in the offensive zone - as a result of Morrow's presence, I'd be happy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad