Pens pull out of Lower Hill Development

[edog37]

They finally pissed off enough over the city dragging its feet. Don’t blame them one bit.

Pittsburgh Penguins pull out of Lower Hill development plans | TribLIVE.com

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[EightyOne]

Seemed pie in the sky in even the best of economic times.

 

[edog37]

Seemed pie in the sky in even the best of economic times.

The city is run by morons. It’s been going on for 10 years now. You have a prime opportunity to bring in a ton of investment & it’s stopped because of stupidity.

 

[Gurglesons]

So what was the point of tearing down the Civic again?

 

[Ugene Magic]

I believe one of the things was destroying the view of the city from the hill. They are completely doing that. Looking at the photo they'd totally landlocked that place down...

I'd be pissed too.

Also, where are all these people going to park? Not just the people that work there but the people to travel in for games?

 

[EightyOne]

I believe one of the things was destroying the view of the city from the hill. They are completely doing that. Looking at the photo they'd totally landlocked that place down...

I'd be pissed too.

Also, where are all these people going to park? Not just the people that work there but the people to travel in for games?

Not supposed to own cars in modern city, duh!

And Pittsburgh wants to be a modern city, right?

Gotta take away lanes and parking and make them into bike lanes and 'traffic calming' medians and shit.

All the cool cities are doing it.

 

[OnMyOwn]

The article says they were building a parking garage there as well. A lot of cities and towns are putting parking garages under new buildings that are built to accommodate parking to some extent.

 

[edog37]

So what was the point of tearing down the Civic again?

It was part of the deal to build PPG.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The article says they were building a parking garage there as well. A lot of cities and towns are putting parking garages under new buildings that are built to accommodate parking to some extent.

I read like 288 parking spaces. What do you do when the work force is still there? I'm sure maybe that's per building?

Not that prices were not high before this, I mean, $20.00/$25.00 to park for 3 hours is just ridiculous. Are those costs going to be reduced?

Oh, plus... I like PPG, but I feel they have totally done the building a disjustice burying it and it's most appealing view behind the church. Not along Center or 5th ave. So for me, the entire thing has been botched...

I don't hate progress, but I do hate how they are doing it.

Edit: They could have made the spot where PPG is currently at into all this crap they are doing now, and had PPG built in the upper lots of the old Igloo where it doesn't impede the views keeping the stucture lower and built into the hill. Basically pick up PPG the way she sits and plop it in the upper lots.

Not only that, but the development part would have already been done with all the time they had..

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

Regarding parking, I think it's a poor use of prime urban real estate to to have surface parking. Look at north shore - development has wiped out a lot of surface parking down there, but it's a more productive use of the land there and there's not really a dearth of parking options to get to a game. For Pens games, it's such an easy walk to park near the courthouse and Oxford and walk over, it's like two blocks. This development would lose some spots close to the Arena, but they'd be building garages to offset and like I said, garages closer to Court/Oxford/Steel building aren't fully utilized during games.

I think this is a complete failure on the part of URA and Hill leaders. They got their say, and there was a commitment to minority residents and businesses well in excess of what other projects have offered in other locations. It's not like they were putting a coke plant or fracking facility there; there was no environmental issue surrounding this development. As such, the city has an obligation to its entire population (and Allegheny County) - not just those residing in the Hill - to ensure its land resources are put to good use and are generating revenue.

Now what for Hill leaders? They're left with nothing. Now what for the city? The city had tenants lined up for this project and now it has nothing. Millions and Billions in revenue for the city down the drain. For what?

 

[Factorial]

I think this is the Pens not wanting to commit in this economic client.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I think this is the Pens not wanting to commit in this economic client.

That's surely part of the catalyst
But they had enough of the feet dragging by the city. So they figure: hey the city is hurting big time with declining revenues, so this would really put the screws to them if they want something done

Excellent negotiating tactic

 

[Ugene Magic]

Regarding parking, I think it's a poor use of prime urban real estate to to have surface parking. Look at north shore - development has wiped out a lot of surface parking down there, but it's a more productive use of the land there and there's not really a dearth of parking options to get to a game. For Pens games, it's such an easy walk to park near the courthouse and Oxford and walk over, it's like two blocks. This development would lose some spots close to the Arena, but they'd be building garages to offset and like I said, garages closer to Court/Oxford/Steel building aren't fully utilized during games.

I think this is a complete failure on the part of URA and Hill leaders. They got their say, and there was a commitment to minority residents and businesses well in excess of what other projects have offered in other locations. It's not like they were putting a coke plant or fracking facility there; there was no environmental issue surrounding this development. As such, the city has an obligation to its entire population (and Allegheny County) - not just those residing in the Hill - to ensure its land resources are put to good use and are generating revenue.

Now what for Hill leaders? They're left with nothing. Now what for the city? The city had tenants lined up for this project and now it has nothing. Millions and Billions in revenue for the city down the drain. For what?

I agree about the parking garages and them being built within structures, but this all could have been done along the Center & 5th avenue corridor. They tore down one such building that was part of the parking flow for Mellon. The skyscrapers could have been built there. Had everything in place and then built up the civic arena plot keeping everything open and free of this monstrosity it's turning into.

 

[Hamurai]

I think this is the Pens not wanting to commit in this economic client.

The penguins own the land, so I can’t imagine what they have to gain with it sitting there unused, especially with FNB putting in $200m for their HQ.

As others said, it’s the URA and Hill leaders holding up trying to get a better deal for the community. Not saying they’re right or wrong for doing it, just that this is what it sounds like.

“Residents have bitterly complained over the years that they have been excluded from decision-making.

Development of the Lower Hill District has been a flash point for black Pittsburghers since the city demolished the neighborhood in the 1950s, displacing hundreds of families and businesses to clear the way for development of the Civic Arena.

Marimba Milliones, president & CEO of the Hill Community Development Corp., and others urged the SEA and URA to hold off on voting.

She said it was the moment “to make sure that the historic wrongs, the displacement of 8,000 businesses, churches demolished on that site are made right.”

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The penguins own the land, so I can’t imagine what they have to gain with it sitting there unused, especially with FNB putting in $200m for their HQ.

As others said, it’s the URA and Hill leaders holding up trying to get a better deal for the community. Not saying they’re right or wrong for doing it, just that this is what it sounds like.

“Residents have bitterly complained over the years that they have been excluded from decision-making.

Development of the Lower Hill District has been a flash point for black Pittsburghers since the city demolished the neighborhood in the 1950s, displacing hundreds of families and businesses to clear the way for development of the Civic Arena.

Marimba Milliones, president & CEO of the Hill Community Development Corp., and others urged the SEA and URA to hold off on voting.

She said it was the moment “to make sure that the historic wrongs, the displacement of 8,000 businesses, churches demolished on that site are made right.”

Business deals are not about correcting the wrongs of history, a time before when any of the parties were involved.

A business deal is about a meeting of the minds that hopefully is beneficial to all parties. And making a profit. Without the chance of making money none of the other good things happen.

When you bring in the better part of a century of wrongs, and expectations driven up that this deal is going to fix every grievance of the last 200 years, that is asking too much of any deal and it is bound to fail.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Regarding parking, I think it's a poor use of prime urban real estate to to have surface parking. Look at north shore - development has wiped out a lot of surface parking down there, but it's a more productive use of the land there and there's not really a dearth of parking options to get to a game. For Pens games, it's such an easy walk to park near the courthouse and Oxford and walk over, it's like two blocks. This development would lose some spots close to the Arena, but they'd be building garages to offset and like I said, garages closer to Court/Oxford/Steel building aren't fully utilized during games.

I think this is a complete failure on the part of URA and Hill leaders. They got their say, and there was a commitment to minority residents and businesses well in excess of what other projects have offered in other locations. It's not like they were putting a coke plant or fracking facility there; there was no environmental issue surrounding this development. As such, the city has an obligation to its entire population (and Allegheny County) - not just those residing in the Hill - to ensure its land resources are put to good use and are generating revenue.

Now what for Hill leaders? They're left with nothing. Now what for the city? The city had tenants lined up for this project and now it has nothing. Millions and Billions in revenue for the city down the drain. For what?

This post. 100%

 

[ziggyjoe212]

I think this is a scare tactic by the Pens. They pulled a similar move 12 years ago to pressure city officials to approve the new arena.

URA and hill district community group has a little too much sway over this development.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Not supposed to own cars in modern city, duh!

And Pittsburgh wants to be a modern city, right?

Gotta take away lanes and parking and make them into bike lanes and 'traffic calming' medians and shit.

All the cool cities are doing it.

You'll rarely see stand alone parking garages get built in central business districts anymore. Why? because they're a giant waste of space.
Modern developments have garages built under ground or as the first few floors. Everything else is built on top of it.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Park in the garage near the jail or the baseball stadium and take the T over. All it takes is a little bit of planning by visitors. But then again certain people are terrified or hold prejudices against public transit.

 

[Hamurai]

Business deals are not about correcting the wrongs of history, a time before when any of the parties were involved.

A business deal is about a meeting of the minds that hopefully is beneficial to all parties. And making a profit. Without the chance of making money none of the other good things happen.

When you bring in the better part of a century of wrongs, and expectations driven up that this deal is going to fix every grievance of the last 200 years, that is asking too much of any deal and it is bound to fail.

I agree. My post was responding to someone saying the pens didn’t want to deal due to the economic climate, which doesn’t make sense to me since they own the land. Their number 1 priority should be developing that land, getting tenants in, and profiting off their investment.

I quoted the part of the article that specifically states the URA and hill Leaders are delaying the deal.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Park in the garage near the jail or the baseball stadium and take the T over. All it takes is a little bit of planning by visitors. But then again certain people are terrified or hold prejudices against public transit.

Well they're gonna be super prejudiced now with the virus!

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Park in the garage near the jail or the baseball stadium and take the T over. All it takes is a little bit of planning by visitors. But then again certain people are terrified or hold prejudices against public transit.

I park in the bus station lot.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I park in the bus station lot.

Ewwwwwww!

 

[Mr. T]

Park in the garage near the jail or the baseball stadium and take the T over. All it takes is a little bit of planning by visitors. But then again certain people are terrified or hold prejudices against public transit.

Please leave Elon Musk out of this.

 

[EightyOne]

You'll rarely see stand alone parking garages get built in central business districts anymore. Why? because they're a giant waste of space.
Modern developments have garages built under ground or as the first few floors. Everything else is built on top of it.

I wish. CA must have missed the memo. There ain't shit crap for parking in anything bigger than 10k pop city