TSN: Pens believed to have interest in Howie

[avssuc]

Yeah that, or another contender come deadline day that has need of a a top 6 winger with play-making ability.

I don't know if you picked up on it, but my post was tongue-in-cheek. The post you quoted was more of a reference on how Holland took McPhee to the woodshed and treated him like a mule with red hair and no blood relation.

Nyquist is having a bad year. 30% of the way through the year, Gus is on pace for 10 goals total. He's making some plays, but (with goal scoring up & save % down for the first time in a decade) he can't score. He's not terribly hard to play against in terms of physicality, something Tatar had/has more of, and he's been pretty bad in postseason production.

Vegas was in a rare situation of being a cup contender 'with' a plethora of picks and futures, so they could gamble more than any contender in recent memory.

I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Nyquist going for a 1st round pick.

 

[kliq]

I don't know if you picked up on it, but my post was tongue-in-cheek. The post you quoted was more of a reference on how Holland took McPhee to the woodshed and treated him like a mule with red hair and no blood relation.

Nyquist is having a bad year. 30% of the way through the year, Gus is on pace for 10 goals total. He's making some plays, but (with goal scoring up & save % down for the first time in a decade) he can't score. He's not terribly hard to play against in terms of physicality, something Tatar had/has more of, and he's been pretty bad in postseason production.

View attachment 159883

Vegas was in a rare situation of being a cup contender 'with' a plethora of picks and futures, so they could gamble more than any contender in recent memory.

I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Nyquist going for a 1st round pick.

Gus is averaging (0.72) points per game, which if he keeps up will give him 10 Goals, 49 Assists and 59 points at the end of the season. This would be a career high in points for him. Outside of 2014 where he scored 48 points in 57 GP (an outlier season in his career), this would be the best season of his career. If find it hard to say someone is having a bad year when they are on pace for their highest point total of their career.

If you want to say Gus is having a down year in regards to goals, sure, that is true. But he's not having a down year, and I believe Gus can go for a 1st rounder if he keeps up this level of play.

As far as his playoff performances, I wont even count 2012 as if I remember correctly he was on the 4th line with Emmerton and Holmstrom and barely played.

2013 I remember him playing very well even if the points dont reflect that, this is when I first really started paying attention to him as a player, and I remember him looking like one of the best on the ice, especially in the Anaheim series.

2014-2016, no doubt he sucked, but to be fair our entire team did.

I think Gus would thrive on the right team in the right role. I would love to see what he could do on a team like Nashville.

 

[avssuc]

Gus is averaging (0.72) points per game, which if he keeps up will give him 10 Goals, 49 Assists and 59 points at the end of the season. This would be a career high in points for him. Outside of 2014 where he scored 48 points in 57 GP (an outlier season in his career), this would be the best season of his career. If find it hard to say someone is having a bad year when they are on pace for their highest point total of their career.

If you want to say Gus is having a down year in regards to goals, sure, that is true. But he's not having a down year, and I believe Gus can go for a 1st rounder if he keeps up this level of play.

As far as his playoff performances, I wont even count 2012 as if I remember correctly he was on the 4th line with Emmerton and Holmstrom and barely played.

2013 I remember him playing very well even if the points dont reflect that, this is when I first really started paying attention to him as a player, and I remember him looking like one of the best on the ice, especially in the Anaheim series.

2014-2016, no doubt he sucked, but to be fair our entire team did.

I think Gus would thrive on the right team in the right role. I would love to see what he could do on a team like Nashville.

I'm not an advanced stats guy, but I wonder how he looks in terms of primary assist, power play points/PP TOI, corsi, and all that other stuff.

I always preferred Tatar over Gus, but his return was terrific. He was grittier, had a better scoring touch, and was physical enough not to disappear in the playoffs (last year withstanding).

You can point to his point total, but 'I' don't think Gus is the kind of guy that many teams are looking for in terms of a cup run. I'd assume that guys like Glendening, Ericsson and Howard generate more interest. Not necessarily a better return, but more interest. Nyquist is just kinda milquetoast... unless you want to cite his reckless/gutless play against the Wild.

 

[14ari13]

Who would give up a first for Howard?

It a question who has to rather than who wants to.

In addition Howard plays great as he played when he entered the league.

 

[Reddwit]

We might be able to get a protected 1st rounder for eating 50% of Howard’s salary and taking on a cap dump that expires in 2020.

 

[JoesuffP]

Tatar had more term and therefore was a more valuable asset. Don’t think Nyquist gets near what Tatar got for that reason alone. Has nothing to do with the quality of the player

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Tatar had more term and therefore was a more valuable asset. Don’t think Nyquist gets near what Tatar got for that reason alone. Has nothing to do with the quality of the player

That and the Tatar deal is kinda like the Hall for Larsson deal. It was a bad, indefensible move. It was a crazy overpayment. We got the benefit of it, but it was a crazy overpayment and expecting that return on your trades will leave you disappointed.

It kind of smacked of "Oh ****, we were working on this huge deal for Erik Karlsson and that fell through, so we NEED to do SOMETHING.

 

[JoesuffP]

That and the Tatar deal is kinda like the Hall for Larsson deal. It was a bad, indefensible move. It was a crazy overpayment. We got the benefit of it, but it was a crazy overpayment and expecting that return on your trades will leave you disappointed.

It kind of smacked of "Oh ****, we were working on this huge deal for Erik Karlsson and that fell through, so we NEED to do SOMETHING.

That too. Definite overpayment done in the closing seconds before the deadline. Wings 2018 draft is way different without that trade being made and I wonder how close it was to not happening at all

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

I don't know if you picked up on it, but my post was tongue-in-cheek. The post you quoted was more of a reference on how Holland took McPhee to the woodshed and treated him like a mule with red hair and no blood relation.

Nyquist is having a bad year. 30% of the way through the year, Gus is on pace for 10 goals total. He's making some plays, but (with goal scoring up & save % down for the first time in a decade) he can't score. He's not terribly hard to play against in terms of physicality, something Tatar had/has more of, and he's been pretty bad in postseason production.

View attachment 159883

Vegas was in a rare situation of being a cup contender 'with' a plethora of picks and futures, so they could gamble more than any contender in recent memory.

I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Nyquist going for a 1st round pick.

Fair point, I disagree though. Nyquist has looked great to me this year. He's causing turnovers and creating scoring chances for his linemates. I think he will be valued highly in a trade.
If I'm wrong and he only brings in a 3rd round pick, so be it.. I'd rather have Holland over value a player to maximize his return apposed to undervalue and get taken to the cleaners. Like he did with Legwand.

 

[kliq]

I'm not an advanced stats guy, but I wonder how he looks in terms of primary assist, power play points/PP TOI, corsi, and all that other stuff.

I always preferred Tatar over Gus, but his return was terrific. He was grittier, had a better scoring touch, and was physical enough not to disappear in the playoffs (last year withstanding).

You can point to his point total, but 'I' don't think Gus is the kind of guy that many teams are looking for in terms of a cup run. I'd assume that guys like Glendening, Ericsson and Howard generate more interest. Not necessarily a better return, but more interest. Nyquist is just kinda milquetoast... unless you want to cite his reckless/gutless play against the Wild.

I can't say if its his best season in the advanced stats category, but my point wasnt so much to point out that he was playing the best hockey of his career, it was to point out that he wasnt by any stretch playing the worst of his career.

I think Wings fans (all fans for that matter) either tend to overrate their players, or underrate their player, and I think Nyquist is a guy that many fans underrate what he is worth. I truly believe that if he's healthy and keeps up this pace, he can bring back a 1st round pick. Lets at least agree to hope I am right lol.

I cant see Glendening and/or Ericsson generating more interest then Nyquist, MAYBE, and a big maybe if they were on expiring contracts, but that's just not the case. I can't Glendening getting more then a 2nd at best (hope I'm wrong), and E is a player I think we would have to pay someone to take unless we retain 50% and receive essentially nothing.

 

[TatarTangle]

A 2nd or 3rd is fair for Nyquist as a rental. Let's be real; he's not a player that you say "oh, we got Nyquist, that puts us over the hump now!" But he is a good piece to add for depth scoring, which is critical in the playoffs.

 

[TheMule93]

"Nyquist is having a bad year" lol hes on pace to have his best season ever in terms of points, ridiculous comment

 

[RedWingzz]

"Nyquist is having a bad year" lol hes on pace to have his best season ever in terms of points, ridiculous comment

He's also on pace to have his worst season ever in terms of goals. I don't know if I fully agree with the "bad year" statement, but he's certainly not been great. I don't think any team out there is crazy enough to give us a first rounder for him. I guess we will see. He's been an inconsistent winger for 5 years now, who over-achieved in 13-14. Sure he has some good skills in the offensive zone, but he's also extremely soft on the puck and loses about 95% of puck battles that he's involved in.

My nightmare is that Holland waits until the deadline, doesn't get the offers he wants for him, so he holds onto him and then resigns him like he did with Green. I will not miss Nyquist when he's gone, the guy is a complete underachiever.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

He's also on pace to have his worst season ever in terms of goals. I don't know if I fully agree with the "bad year" statement, but he's certainly not been great. I don't think any team out there is crazy enough to give us a first rounder for him. I guess we will see. He's been an inconsistent winger for 5 years now, who over-achieved in 13-14. Sure he has some good skills in the offensive zone, but he's also extremely soft on the puck and loses about 95% of puck battles that he's involved in.

My nightmare is that Holland waits until the deadline, doesn't get the offers he wants for him, so he holds onto him and then resigns him like he did with Green. I will not miss Nyquist when he's gone, the guy is a complete underachiever.

If you can get a first for Nyquist and a first for Howard. You run to the bank with that all day long.

 

[Ezekial]

He's also on pace to have his worst season ever in terms of goals. I don't know if I fully agree with the "bad year" statement, but he's certainly not been great. I don't think any team out there is crazy enough to give us a first rounder for him. I guess we will see. He's been an inconsistent winger for 5 years now, who over-achieved in 13-14. Sure he has some good skills in the offensive zone, but he's also extremely soft on the puck and loses about 95% of puck battles that he's involved in.

My nightmare is that Holland waits until the deadline, doesn't get the offers he wants for him, so he holds onto him and then resigns him like he did with Green. I will not miss Nyquist when he's gone, the guy is a complete underachiever.

Meh, he's making shot attempts at about the same rate as he did last year (~4.16 SA/game) when he scored 21 goals on 10% shooting, he's at 5.2% this year. If his shot attempts were way down I'd be more concerned about the lack of goals. He's been pretty unlucky.

He had 19 assists in 82 games last year. Having 15 after 25 is kind of a big deal.

 

[TatarTangle]

Nyquist was never a big goal scorer so quite frankly I don't know why people are so shocked those numbers are down. One season of doing something doesn't necessarily make you that.

 

[Perfect Human]

Nyquist for Allard and a second

??

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Nyquist for Allard and a second

??

I'd do that in a heartbeat, Always liked Allard.

 

[Perfect Human]

I'd do that in a heartbeat, Always liked Allard.

Just thinking that NSH has lots of organizational depth at D, might be worth it to them to move a prospect and Fabbro is way too much for Nyquist

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I'd do that in a heartbeat, Always liked Allard.

Other than stats & a Dobberprospects profile I don't know anything about him, but sounds reasonable, especially with it being a NSH D-prospect, RHD PMD to boot. Their track record for drafting & developing D puts most teams to shame.

 

[Frk It]

Nyquist for Allard and a second

??

I’d be interested. Wouldn’t mind Farrance, either.

Flames are also overloaded on defense. Might try to go for Oliver Kylington or Rasmus Andersson, if possible.

 

[avssuc]

Fair point, I disagree though. Nyquist has looked great to me this year. He's causing turnovers and creating scoring chances for his linemates. I think he will be valued highly in a trade.
If I'm wrong and he only brings in a 3rd round pick, so be it.. I'd rather have Holland over value a player to maximize his return apposed to undervalue and get taken to the cleaners. Like he did with Legwand.

Agreed, I'd say he's more valuable to the Wings than anything he could return.

And can we add Legwand to the list on the profanity filter here? Everytime I see his name I get sick.

 

[avssuc]

I can't say if its his best season in the advanced stats category, but my point wasnt so much to point out that he was playing the best hockey of his career, it was to point out that he wasnt by any stretch playing the worst of his career.

I think Wings fans (all fans for that matter) either tend to overrate their players, or underrate their player, and I think Nyquist is a guy that many fans underrate what he is worth. I truly believe that if he's healthy and keeps up this pace, he can bring back a 1st round pick. Lets at least agree to hope I am right lol.

I cant see Glendening and/or Ericsson generating more interest then Nyquist, MAYBE, and a big maybe if they were on expiring contracts, but that's just not the case. I can't Glendening getting more then a 2nd at best (hope I'm wrong), and E is a player I think we would have to pay someone to take unless we retain 50% and receive essentially nothing.

Glendenning getting a 2nd round pick isn't an example of less "intrest", it's less of a "return". I said teams will be far more interested for a reason... because in the big picture, those dudes are just as valuable (in the playoffs), and can be had for far less.

Glendenning has a pretty good contract, dude. Your opinion there sounds like that whole 'Wings fans undervaluing' thing that you mentioned Continuing that thought, I'd say Wings fans tend to have too much love for homegrown players. I was clinging to Brendan Smith like grim death, and I was wrong the entire time. Lucky for us, there's something in the drinking water at MSG.

Ericcson has this year and next, not great, but not as bad as it looks. Both he and Glendening are built for the playoffs... while Nyquist is Jason Williams part deux, built far softer, less of a scoring touch, way more careless with his stick, and with less playoff chances to suck in.

He's a good player to help facilitate rebuilding, but he's not a guy you pay big to win. Just because he's in the Wings top 6 doesn't make him a top 6 on a cup team.

 

[SCD]

Re-post from A to Z.

John Shannon on Sportsnet just now says he reached out to the Wings today regarding the trade talk surrounding Jimmy Howard.
Their response- well he is not being traded.
Shannon simply states he is not being shopped around.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Glendenning getting a 2nd round pick isn't an example of less "intrest", it's less of a "return". I said teams will be far more interested for a reason... because in the big picture, those dudes are just as valuable (in the playoffs), and can be had for far less.

Glendenning has a pretty good contract, dude. Your opinion there sounds like that whole 'Wings fans undervaluing' thing that you mentioned Continuing that thought, I'd say Wings fans tend to have too much love for homegrown players. I was clinging to Brendan Smith like grim death, and I was wrong the entire time. Lucky for us, there's something in the drinking water at MSG.

Ericcson has this year and next, not great, but not as bad as it looks. Both he and Glendening are built for the playoffs... while Nyquist is Jason Williams part deux, built far softer, less of a scoring touch, way more careless with his stick, and with less playoff chances to suck in.

He's a good player to help facilitate rebuilding, but he's not a guy you pay big to win. Just because he's in the Wings top 6 doesn't make him a top 6 on a cup team.

I understand a lot of the opinions. I think it is far more likely that Nyquist slots in on a contender and looks really good. Think of if Nyquist winds up on Pittsburgh on Crosby's or Malkin's wing... I mean Nyquist is playing pretty good hockey the last two years, if you could find him the right chemistry I think he could take off big time as a complimentary piece on a contender like the initial thrust with Franzen.

I am not sure we pay quite enough attention to linemate chemistry. You watch a guy like MacKinnon explode with the right guys consistently around him. He is a great player and #1 overall pick but it helps him a huge amount. He goes from a guy with a lot to offer to a top 3 player in the league.

Jason Williams is a pretty harsh comparison, even if Nyquist's career was over today he would be better than that guy, he has more goals and assists in fewer games. Has a much better 200 foot game and is also a better forechecker in terms of pressure up ice. Williams was a stand around shooter and PP specialist for the most part as a point contributor. I would say Nyquist's fade in terms of PP numbers is really what hurt where a lot of us thought his development was going. Now again what if he winds up on a really good PP unit and all of a sudden starts throwing out a higher PP points again?

Also hard to say on some of younger guys at the end of the run there in my opinion. They were prohibitive underdogs playing on less talented teams. They almost knocked out Tampa and Chicago but do we think those teams should have been markedly controlling games in the way you seem to expect out of Nyquist? I think there are plenty of places he could land and be a really nice complementary piece, who knows if he finds linemate chemistry he could become a 30+ goal or 60+ point guy. Fit is important. Nyquist works hard enough and has the hockey IQ that it really does depend on the situation and how quickly he adapts after he is dealt this year. I hope he catches on, I am not sure why we would root against him. I want people to be interested in some of the vets we spin off the next few years, Nyquist is capable of being an impact trade deadline acquisition. I am rooting for him to be one.

To me he is one of the biggest trade deadline pieces out there. Howard could impact a lot of things, but Nyquist is likely to slot in to someones top 6 or as a PP acquisition playing on a stacked third line against better matchups, that should be good for him in my opinion he is going to be going to a better situation it is if he can hit the ground running.