Post-Game Talk: Penguins Participatory Trophies for Playing the Islanders!

[MtlPenFan]

Not this season, friend.

He's paid to score ... and until last night he was at a PPG.
Unconditional love? Really? Malkin?

If you'd be happy with an 82 point season, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Darth Vitale]

The jist of this game is that our best players weren't nearly good enough. Even Crosby was turning pucks over... hell, just handing the puck over... and Letang was brutal but let's chalk that up to rust.

Our best players have to be more conservative with the puck, Crosby can't be flinging blind passes all over the defensive zone and Letang needs to get pucks through when he's the last man back.

Really, Zatkoff was fine and even really good at times and I have a lot more confidence in him now than I did 24 hours ago. I'm sure the players and coaches, and Zatkoff himself, feel the same way.

I don't disagree that our best players could've been better (especially Letang but I'll cut him some slack for being out all season) but what about Zatkoff seems "fine" to you? To me the mark of a decent goalie is, when his team is having a **** night, he can buckle down and stave off the other team enough to give the team a shot at winning. He pretty much did the opposite last night, caving when we could least afford him to cave (last few minutes of the game).

To me the guy just doesn't look confident out there, seems to be out of position a fair amount of the time. Maybe if he was younger I'd say OK just needs more time to adjust and learn from the goalie coaches but... he's not exactly a "young goalie". It's true that guys like Jimmy Howard were in their mid-20s before being ready, but this isn't a Jimmy Howard situation.

I don't know that much about goalie technique but he didn't seem stable to me out there, for lack of a better word. Doesn't take much to throw him off his game IMO / get him out of position lungeing for pucks.

 

[eXile59]

Because he doesn't play like this when he's healthy?

He better not. People are going to know that while Malkin & Sid took discounts he pretty much fought for every dollar he could get.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Agreed. That save he made right before the GWG was spectacular.

Yah but that's the point. He's not consistent. He follows nice saves with bad GA, and the GWG (as well as the one prior) were bad GA IMO. He actually reminds me of Fleury on his bad nights a little bit. Panicky and sometimes out of position. Maybe I need to watch him closer next time but so far I'm not impressed with this kid, even as a backup.

 

[Til the End of Time]

i really am skeptical that letang is a guy you build your d-corps around. he has the hockey iq of a potato.

 

[Darth Vitale]

i really am skeptical that letang is a guy you build your d-corps around. he has the hockey iq of a potato.

This may end up being true (he's not that young either where you can use age as an excuse now), but on the bright side, we may not have to build around him if he keeps it up.

 

[DegenX]

If you'd be happy with an 82 point season, then I don't know what to tell you.

You do realize that an 82 point season would still put him in the top 10 in scoring, right?

2011-2012 was the last full season. Geno won his second Art Ross. Patrik Elias was 10th in scoring with 78 points.

2010-2011 Brad Richards was 10th with 77 points.

I'm not saying Geno can't do better, but in order for that to happen he needs to be put in a position to succeed. Which this coaching staff is simply not doing. Injuries or no, there are better options than Kobasew. And even with Neal healthy, he had a revolving door on his other wing last season. And then people wonder why he relies so heavily on Neal.

And the idea that Geno is just not trying is directly at odds with the improvements he's making to other areas of his game. If he wasn't trying, he wouldn't be at nearly 60% on face-offs. If he wasn't trying he wouldn't be playing defensively sound hockey most nights. If he wasn't trying, he'd have a hell of a lot more penalty minutes at this point, considering how he gets man-handled every game.

And as far as unconditional love, there's a lot of the opposite as well. And it's usually the same posters ragging on Malkin whether he has a good game or a bad one.

 

[Til the End of Time]

This may end up being true (he's not that young either where you can use age as an excuse now), but on the bright side, we may not have to build around him if he keeps it up.

oh right, i had forgotten that he doesnt havent a full no movement clause. thats really surprising to me but definitely a good thing.

 

[IcedCapp]

The jist of this game is that our best players weren't nearly good enough. Even Crosby was turning pucks over... hell, just handing the puck over... and Letang was brutal but let's chalk that up to rust.

Our best players have to be more conservative with the puck, Crosby can't be flinging blind passes all over the defensive zone and Letang needs to get pucks through when he's the last man back.

Really, Zatkoff was fine and even really good at times and I have a lot more confidence in him now than I did 24 hours ago. I'm sure the players and coaches, and Zatkoff himself, feel the same way.

I find it interesting that when singling out our "best players," you choose Letang (warranted) and Crosby, who scored a goal, had 7 shots, won 69.2% of face-offs, was a plus player, and created about 10 scoring chances in the first period.

Yes, he had some bad turnovers, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree there.

 

[Darth Vitale]

oh right, i had forgotten that he doesnt havent a full no movement clause. thats really surprising to me but definitely a good thing.

Well not only that but my larger point is, we don't lack for talented D in our system. We don't have the "crap shoot" to deal with (when replacing a good D) that most other teams have. The D in a couple years could look VERY different to the one we see today, but it might also be a very good D as it matures.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

There's no doubt Malkin is struggling. Maybe it's time to reunite the best line in hockey from 2011-12? Kunitz-Malkin-Neal? Let Crosby have Dupuis and Jokinen or Bennett when he gets back.

 

[gordie]

Therrien knew how to handle Letang but Bylsma is clueless in this regard. When Letang was inserted in the Finals against Detroit it was Scotty Bowman who mentioned how he was a huge difference maker in the series. They need the right guy to be Head Coach to get the most out of these players, but sadly that isn't happening.

 

[Fire Shero*]

I feel bad for Geno. They teased him with 2 decent wingers and then took Kunitz away from him. I'm shocked he signed the extension based on the players he's had to play with and who knows what gems he will play with in the future.

 

[PensPlz]

Crosby is gonna Crosby no matter who he plays with because he is THE guy that drives the net. He IS the hard worker. Crosby plays off of pure instinct in the heat of the moment. Malkin simply does not, he's not that type of player. He roams around and analyzes and picks his spots. He needs players to drive the net and create opportunities, create space, for him so he can make the play. Sounds insulting, but it's not... it's effective. It's been proven effective. It's why he worked so well with Kunitz. Double J and Double B won't cut it. They would work more than fine with Sid, tho.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

As ****** as Letang was...it was his first game, with a new partner, playing 25 minutes coming off an injury, against a team that has made a habit of grinding us down.

Let's give it more than one game under harsh circumstances before we start lamenting an 8 year deal.

 

[Sivek]

As far Letang goes, and this comes from someone who was in favor of his extension, I think he's only really going to get "it" when he starts getting glued to the bench after he makes some of his dumb mistakes. Not sure the gentle hand method is going to work when it comes to him cleaning up his gaffes because he still does outrageously dumb stuff for a guy that has played about 25 minutes a night for 4-5 seasons.

 

[LetangyBarbecue]

What really disappoints me as a die hard pens fan is we will never see another cup with that dip**** behind the bench

 

[IcedCapp]

Crosby is gonna Crosby no matter who he plays with because he is THE guy that drives the net. He IS the hard worker. Crosby plays off of pure instinct in the heat of the moment. Malkin simply does not, he's not that type of player. He roams around and analyzes and picks his spots. He needs players to drive the net and create opportunities, create space, for him so he can make the play. Sounds insulting, but it's not... it's effective. It's been proven effective. It's why he worked so well with Kunitz. Double J and Double B won't cut it. They would work more than fine with Sid, tho.

There's a lot of assumptions passed as facts in this post.

 

[MtlPenFan]

You do realize that an 82 point season would still put him in the top 10 in scoring, right?

2011-2012 was the last full season. Geno won his second Art Ross. Patrik Elias was 10th in scoring with 78 points.

2010-2011 Brad Richards was 10th with 77 points.

I'm not saying Geno can't do better, but in order for that to happen he needs to be put in a position to succeed. Which this coaching staff is simply not doing. Injuries or no, there are better options than Kobasew. And even with Neal healthy, he had a revolving door on his other wing last season. And then people wonder why he relies so heavily on Neal.

And the idea that Geno is just not trying is directly at odds with the improvements he's making to other areas of his game. If he wasn't trying, he wouldn't be at nearly 60% on face-offs. If he wasn't trying he wouldn't be playing defensively sound hockey most nights. If he wasn't trying, he'd have a hell of a lot more penalty minutes at this point, considering how he gets man-handled every game.

And as far as unconditional love, there's a lot of the opposite as well. And it's usually the same posters ragging on Malkin whether he has a good game or a bad one.

Again, more conjecture. I really hate having to read "put in a position to succeed", an empty platitude if there ever was one when it comes to this particular debate.

First off, the cupboard's bare. I'm not sure who you think is supposed to be put up there on the second line with two key injuries in Neal and Beau, so if you think that a coach who will put Jeffrey (*sigh*) or some other supposed talent I don't know about next to Malkin is the solution, then you're delusional.

You want Sid money? Play like Sid. Simple as that.

 

[DegenX]

Again, more conjecture. I really hate having to read "put in a position to succeed", an empty platitude if there ever was one when it comes to this particular debate.

First off, the cupboard's bare. I'm not sure who you think is supposed to be put up there on the second line with two key injuries in Neal and Beau, so if you think that a coach who will put Jeffrey (*sigh*) or some other supposed talent I don't know about next to Malkin is the solution, then you're delusional.

You want Sid money? Play like Sid. Simple as that.

The cupboard is not so bare that Kobasew needs to remain on Geno's wing. If not Jeffrey, there's the always the option to bring up someone from W-B/S or *gasp* put Kunitz with Geno. Because, you know, Sid can play with anyone, right?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Again, more conjecture. I really hate having to read "put in a position to succeed", an empty platitude if there ever was one when it comes to this particular debate.

First off, the cupboard's bare. I'm not sure who you think is supposed to be put up there on the second line with two key injuries in Neal and Beau, so if you think that a coach who will put Jeffrey (*sigh*) or some other supposed talent I don't know about next to Malkin is the solution, then you're delusional.

You want Sid money? Play like Sid. Simple as that.

The argument last night about DB being an idiot for not putting Malkin with Jeffrey or Vitale just made me:

 

[Darth Vitale]

And that's a good note to end this thread on. Pre-game is up. Enjoy.