Rumor: Penguins interested in Zucker

[Dr Jan Itor]

Iam thinking zucker does not want to leave Minnesota. He probably has nothing against pens but wants to stay put. I don't think he is the best fit anyways ..good not great.. mayne we can focus on saad

Because Saad is great?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because Saad is great?

Saad's from Pittsburgh, which makes him like 30% better in the eyes of Penguins fans

I could see Guerin taking a chance on Hallander. He might not pan out as more than a bottom-6 center, but that's arguably more of a long-term need than wingers or RD anyway.

I ultimately think the deal is going to be Galchenyuk, Hallander and a 1st for Zucker and maybe a minor add (depth forward if I had to guess). Hallander's kinda redundant with the Penguins with the acquisition of McCann, who's a pretty similar player with similar upside, but he'd still have value to other teams due to that upside.

So you're saying he'd agree to be traded to Arizona or Florida or Tampa over Pittsburgh based on desire to be close to home

That's exactly why I don't think it makes sense that Zucker would put Pittsburgh on his NTC. He doesn't have a strong enough NTC to effectively block off any team interested in him, so why would he try that?

 

[Jerkbait]

Because saad is probably the best option. Local boy.. plays more the style the pens need right now. Would be a tad less expensive as well.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I ultimately think the deal is going to be Galchenyuk, Hallander and a 1st for Zucker and maybe a minor add (depth forward if I had to guess). Hallander's kinda redundant with the Penguins with the acquisition of McCann, who's a pretty similar player with similar upside, but he'd still have value to other teams due to that upside.

I guess I can at least say that I like that more than Frolik + Calgary's 1st last year.

 

[Turin]

Well that's absolutely disgusting then. I want no part of a Zucker to Pittsburgh trade. I was already lukewarm on their late 1st + one of those guys.

It isn’t, but alright. I guess prepare yourself for that being the value.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'd still much rather clear out or LW logjam by trading Foligno for a 2nd and Donato for a 3rd/4th over getting a late 1st and an ok prospect for Zucker.

Not really liking these rumors.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I feel like this is how the negotiation is going down:

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

So you're saying he'd agree to be traded to Arizona or Florida or Tampa over Pittsburgh based on desire to be close to home

Or Philly, Boston, Columbus, etc etc etc etc etc.

I've been saying this all day. Canada and all of Cali are 9 teams. It makes no sense that the 10th team would be Pittsburgh. Even though they tried to trade for him a month before his list came out, he's not dumb enough to block a trade to a team that is:

1. 1:45 DIRECT flight.
2. Has 2 of the best players on the planet that he would excel with.
3. Is always going to be in the playoff discussion.
4. Pittsburgh is a GREAT city, too.

But yes, let me leave the door wide open for a trade to Buffalo

 

[moegillknee]

Pens should keep their 1st and trade Jarry and chuckie(Khl bound } for Zucker. They will lose jarry in the expansion draft. Minny could then move Dubie in off season or leave him unprotected in draft.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Pens should keep their 1st and trade Jarry and chuckie(Khl bound } for Zucker. They will lose jarry in the expansion draft. Minny could then move Dubie in off season or leave him unprotected in draft.

Thats an interesting thought.

 

[Prior]

Is Pittsburgh really going to choose Murray over Jarry though?

 

[Empoleon8771]

They're not going to trade either Murray or Jarry during the season, so that's somewhat of a moot point to discuss. Is it possible they trade one of them this off-season? Sure, but it's definitely not going to happen before the off-season.

Is Pittsburgh really going to choose Murray over Jarry though?

I really doubt they're going to pick Murray over Jarry. Teams don't usually throw their established starting goalie to the side just because their young backup goalie had a hot first half of the year. I'd be much more confident in Murray finishing the year strong, the Penguins giving Murray a long-term extension and them trading Jarry for the best return they can get.

 

[57special]

If last year's failed Zucker trades have proven anything to Wild fans (let alone the Rask and Donato trades), it's that sometimes the best deal is the one when you don't do. MN has no pressure to commit to a TDL deal...deals are much easier to make during the summer when teams know their actual draft position. Unless teams make an offer that is hard to refuse, then wait till then. A late first and Hallander is hardly that, though it wasn't that long ago that Galchenyuk would've been the most valuable piece in this trade, including Zucker. What a waste of talent.

I wonder if NSH would do a straight up trade involving Granlund and Galch? Maybe Pens would have to add in a later pick, because they would be more motivated.

 

[Bazeek]

A late 1st and Hallander is probably as good as we're ever going to do with a Zucker trade, unless a team like Colorado gets antsy and offers up a prospect like Newhook (unlikely). It's probably optimistic to think Pittsburgh's offering that much right now.

I think the real decision with Zucker is whether or not he's the guy that should go, or if it should be Donato/Foligno/Greenway. Presumably it won't be Fiala. In a lot of ways it'd be prefereable to trade from the bottom of the roster than the top, but it doesn't work as well if the goal is to free up a spot for Kaprizov. I wouldn't pencil him in on the top line immediately, but you don't want him on the 4th line either.

That said, I'm good waiting for the draft when the list of bidders opens up and the likely pick we're getting back has a fixed value. An extra playoff run typically adds value, but I'm not sure that applies to guys with 2+ years of term.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A late 1st and Hallander is probably as good as we're ever going to do with a Zucker trade, unless a team like Colorado gets antsy and offers up a prospect like Newhook (unlikely). It's probably optimistic to think Pittsburgh's offering that much right now.

I think the real decision with Zucker is whether or not he's the guy that should go, or if it should be Donato/Foligno/Greenway. Presumably it won't be Fiala. In a lot of ways it'd be prefereable to trade from the bottom of the roster than the top, but it doesn't work as well if the goal is to free up a spot for Kaprizov. I wouldn't pencil him in on the top line immediately, but you don't want him on the 4th line either.

That said, I'm good waiting for the draft when the list of bidders opens up and the likely pick we're getting back has a fixed value. An extra playoff run typically adds value, but I'm not sure that applies to guys with 2+ years of term.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think the Penguins could be offering Galchenyuk, Hallander and a 1st that right now. That's basically what they traded for Brassard in 2018 and I feel like Brassard then and Zucker now are fairly comparable in value.

I do agree that I struggle to see teams offering more than that for Zucker, though. We have a pretty good sample size of wingers with term like Zucker being traded and it's usually not for more than that. Whether it's Tatar, Schenn, Hoffman, Johansson or Perron, all of who were similar wingers to Zucker with term that were traded for futures heavy returns, none of them brought back more than the value of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Kessel's really the only winger with term I can find since 2015 that brought back more than a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and Zucker is no Phil Kessel.

You may get a return that fills a need better, but I really doubt the Wild will be getting better offers in value than Galchenyuk, Hallander and a 1st. Seeing how teams aren't as jaded on Galchenyuk as I expected them to be (recent Athletic article from Dutaschek said that most people he's talked to are lukewarm on Galchenyuk, not down on him like I expected), that's probably more than a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in value and that's basically the best return of comparable wingers to Zucker than I can find.

 

[Bazeek]

I don't think it's unreasonable to think the Penguins could be offering Galchenyuk, Hallander and a 1st that right now. That's basically what they traded for Brassard in 2018 and I feel like Brassard then and Zucker now are fairly comparable in value.

I do agree that I struggle to see teams offering more than that for Zucker, though. We have a pretty good sample size of wingers with term like Zucker being traded and it's usually not for more than that. Whether it's Tatar, Schenn, Hoffman, Johansson or Perron, all of who were similar wingers to Zucker with term that were traded for futures heavy returns, none of them brought back more than the value of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Kessel's really the only winger with term I can find since 2015 that brought back more than a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and Zucker is no Phil Kessel.

You may get a return that fills a need better, but I really doubt the Wild will be getting better offers in value than Galchenyuk, Hallander and a 1st. Seeing how teams aren't as jaded on Galchenyuk as I expected them to be (recent Athletic article from Dutaschek said that most people he's talked to are lukewarm on Galchenyuk, not down on him like I expected), that's probably more than a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in value and that's basically the best return of comparable wingers to Zucker than I can find.

If the Penguins can kick Galchenyuk elsewhere for a pick they should do that, but in this hypothetical deal he's just a cap dump. His presence or absence doesn't really change anything for the Wild. If anything I'd rather not take him back so that we can give Donato a few months of regular playing time.

Regardless, I don't think value's going to be a hang up here. The GMs know each other and know what time it is in Pittsburgh, so the price is likely as favorable as it'll ever be for Minnesota. I might not like it, but things don't happen contingent on me liking them (unfortunately).

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Penguins can kick Galchenyuk elsewhere for a pick they should do that, but in this hypothetical deal he's just a cap dump. His presence or absence doesn't really change anything for the Wild. If anything I'd rather not take him back so that we can give Donato a few months of regular playing time.

Regardless, I don't think value's going to be a hang up here. The GMs know each other and know what time it is in Pittsburgh, so the price is likely as favorable as it'll ever be for Minnesota. I might not like it, but things don't happen contingent on me liking them (unfortunately).

I think Galchenyuk would mostly be included in that deal for the same reasons Cole was included in the Brassard deal or Brassard was included in the McCann/Bjugstad deal, he'd maybe play a few games for the Wild and then be flipped at the deadline for a mid round pick. But I do think there's an interesting and possible scenario where the Wild would be intrigued with the idea of Galchenyuk being a center for them. Their current 2C is Victor Rask, who's on pace for like 23 points this year. I could see a scenario where the Wild basically say "let's see what Galchenyuk can do at center with Fiala" and see if anything can come from that.

I've been saying this in a couple of Galchenyuk threads already, but I really think he needs to be playing center to be at his best. It's not a coincidence his 2 best seasons at ES were both years he played mostly at center. He drives offense dramatically better at center than he does on the wing, but the problem with playing him at center is that he doesn't have the all-around game coaches want out of their centers. When the Zucker to Arizona rumors were being discussed last summer, I had a thought that they may be interested in Galchenyuk to play him at center.

This isn't me trying to convince Wild fans that they should want Galchenyuk, this is just a thought that I had. Galchenyuk is thoroughly uninspiring and I don't think most coaches would tolerate his all-around play at center to keep him at center.

 

[RSPens]

But that's just the point I'm making, that logic falls apart when you consider that he'd be leaving options like Buffalo, Edmonton, Winnipeg or LA as trade options if he'd put Pittsburgh on his NTC. For every interested team that he has put on his NTC, he's leaving 1 worse option as a trade candidate. I don't see why he'd do that.

I think Zucker probably knew that there was a good chance that he was going to be traded sometime this season. So because of his family situation, I would bet the 10 teams he put on his list to not be traded to are likely the 10 teams furthest away from his family and/or the 10 cities most difficult to get to and from Minnesota. He might have put some thoughts in about which teams may be more successful, but it sounds like the family is his top priority.

 

[57special]

Wilda are one for few teams who can use a "defense optional" C. Koivu and JEE are wonderful defenders...Staal is so-so, and Sturm is above average. We have also got some good defensive wingers, though not so many as we used to have. I can understand Galchenyuk being an afterthought in PIT with their ridiculous C's, but it's possible that Galch could be an asset in MN ,or at least a stopgap till the cavalry arrives in Khovanov and ??

 

[Hockeyfan200]

Wilda are one for few teams who can use a "defense optional" C. Koivu and JEE are wonderful defenders...Staal is so-so, and Sturm is above average. We have also got some good defensive wingers, though not so many as we used to have. I can understand Galchenyuk being an afterthought in PIT with their ridiculous C's, but it's possible that Galch could be an asset in MN ,or at least a stopgap till the cavalry arrives in Khovanov and ??

Huh? Defense optional c? I am so confused. what does that mean?

 

[Digitalbooya]

Huh? Defense optional c? I am so confused. what does that mean?

Like more offense oriented because we have guys who are great at defense and will cover the PK, etc.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

Like more offense oriented because we have guys who are great at defense and will cover the PK, etc.

I think it will depend on coach. If Brodreau, doubt he ever plays. Brodreau tends to look down on players who don't play defense or hit . Play the game the right way.

I think we are seeing the evidence in that rask is playing over donato

 

[Empoleon8771]

At least over Boudreau's entire tenure, he's been a coach that hasn't shied away from playing defensively suspect centers or wingers at center. He had a lot of defensively suspect centers in Washington, with Nylander, Morrison, Fleischmann and Johansson all at least spending significant time at center (if not solely playing center) and those guys were all on par or worse than Galchenyuk defensively. Those guys were all analytically horrendous defensively. Sure, maybe it was just the best that he could be given, but he consistently had a horrible defensive 2C in his entire Capitals career.

It was less bad in Anaheim (because Murray was able to give him better centers), but he still shoehorned Rakell and Perreault at center for multiple seasons. Maybe he doesn't do it anymore, but he was super willing to play either bad defensive centers (Nylander and Morrison) at centers or push wingers (Rakell, Perreault, Fleischmann and Johansson) to center over his entire tenure. If anything, I could see Boudreau being one of the more willing coaches to do that based on his track record.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

At least over Boudreau's entire tenure, he's been a coach that hasn't shied away from playing defensively suspect centers or wingers at center. He had a lot of defensively suspect centers in Washington, with Nylander, Morrison, Fleischmann and Johansson all at least spending significant time at center (if not solely playing center) and those guys were all on par or worse than Galchenyuk defensively. Those guys were all analytically horrendous defensively. Sure, maybe it was just the best that he could be given, but he consistently had a horrible defensive 2C in his entire Capitals career.

It was less bad in Anaheim (because Murray was able to give him better centers), but he still shoehorned Rakell and Perreault at center for multiple seasons. Maybe he doesn't do it anymore, but he was super willing to play either bad defensive centers (Nylander and Morrison) at centers or push wingers (Rakell, Perreault, Fleischmann and Johansson) to center over his entire tenure. If anything, I could see Boudreau being one of the more willing coaches to do that based on his track record.

I mean alot of ppeopl are asking why donato isn't being tried at c over slow rask but rask is playing okay or good which is why people aren't upset.

I just think donato needs to gain weight, he's really small & doesn't win faceoff at all.

 

[Bazeek]

I mean alot of ppeopl are asking why donato isn't being tried at c over slow rask but rask is playing okay or good which is why people aren't upset.

I just think donato needs to gain weight, he's really small & doesn't win faceoff at all.

Yeah, I don't see Boudreau playing him at center. Maybe as an edict from the GM if Guerin wants to see what he's got on his hands, but I doubt it.