Post-Game Talk: Penguins 7, Rangers 2 - Broken Hank

[Shady Machine]

Yeah, NBC mentioned something that was music to my ears...

"Mike Sullivan made some tweaks to this team's game that has started to pay off recently..."


Well, no ****, when you finally make changes to adapt, good **** happens. It was about how this team was breaking out of its zone and zone entries and it's been evident. Maybe it took being super ****ing bad for a month for it to really drive it home, but it did and for a couple of weeks now this team looks like the team we thought we were getting in the first two weeks of the season.

Lol you're funny. Those changes were made weeks ago. You just weren't paying attention. There is a risk to making system changes too early, especially when you have injuries and other things impacting your play. Change too much too soon and it could all backfire.

Sully is far from perfect, but your over the top criticism is something else.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't see how those two situations are analogous.

In spite of Sullivan's distaste for him, Cole was playing well for us last year and fit the role he was given. Brassard has not, and this is coming from a guy who's been very supportive of his potential here for the whole season. I think realistic line combos are running out to get a 3rd line with him really going. Pearson-Brassard-Kessel has been okay but it's a lot less than the sum of its parts.

Involve Brass (+ sweetener obviously) in a deal for a center like Staal, Carter, or Hayes? All day *****. Not just for defensive draws, but because it'd be a good bet to make us a better, more versatile team.

Stop the Jeff Carter shit. You've lost your mind on that one.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Stop the Jeff Carter ****. You've lost your mind on that one.

Oh right I forgot. A 37 point pace after 40 games on a garbage team where nobody can score is enough to totally dismiss a 6'3" two-way center who had a 62 point pace over the previous 4 seasons. After all, he's Patrice Bergeron's age.

Kopitar's on a 53 point pace. I guess he's done too.

 

[Shady Machine]

The only redeeming quality of Brassard at center is that the Pearson-Brassard-Kessel line looks really good so far. But if you need Pearson and Kessel with Brassard for Brassard to be on an effective line, what is he providing that Sheahan didn't provide last year?

I think they're getting close to where they should pull the plug on this experiment, but I still don't expect JR to be super willing to move him. Brassard has been flat out bad this year overall and even worse as a 3C, but the team has won 7 games in a row. It's not even about having high expectations based on who he is and what they paid for him, he's giving the worst performance as the 3C since 2013-2014 with Sutter. And hell, that may be giving Brassard too much credit because Sutter actually had 5 goals and 7 points in 13 games in the 2014 playoffs.

Sheahan is still on the roster so you get both. I'm fine trading him if you find an upgrade, but moving him because Sheahan was just as good in the role seems silly to me. If he's moved and one of your regular centers go down, you could be in trouble. Really it just depends on the return. I want better than Sheahan at 3C. I thought Brass could do it and I still think he can. But if he can't then move him for another center that can.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sheahan is still on the roster so you get both. I'm fine trading him if you find an upgrade, but moving him because Sheahan was just as good in the role seems silly to me. If he's moved and one of your regular centers go down, you could be in trouble. Really it just depends on the return. I want better than Sheahan at 3C. I thought Brass could do it and I still think he can. But if he can't then move him for another center that can.

Where did I say that they should move him because they have Sheahan? I'm asking what Brassard did that Sheahan didn't do last year, which is more me asking why settle on Brassard if Sheahan wasn't good enough?

 

[Slaaapshuter]

Of course the Pens start winning and playing (by the sounds of it) fun and cohesive hockey during a time when I can't catch a single frame of it.

*This post was endorsed and paid for by the "How to put a negative spin on anything" association

 

[Shady Machine]

Oh right I forgot. A 37 point pace after 39 games on a garbage team where nobody can score is enough to totally dismiss a 6'3" two-way center who had a 62 point pace in each of the previous 4 seasons. After all, he's Patrice Bergeron's age.

Kopitar's on a 53 point pace. I guess he's done too.

Pens can't afford a 2C at 3C that's 34, relatively injury prone and signed for 3 more years after this at $5.3MM.

Also, Carter has 10 PPP which he won't get here because he won't be on top PP. He has 8 ES points in 40 games or a 16.4 pace. You know who has more than that? Derick I'm playing really poorly Brassard, at 10 ES points in 31 games or 26 point pace.

Carter, like Brassard, is a nice to have as they can be a 2C if one of Sid or Geno go down, but why would I move Brass to bring in THAT contract? Just seems really, really bizarre.

 

[Shady Machine]

Where did I say that they should move him because they have Sheahan? I'm asking what Brassard did that Sheahan didn't do last year, which is more me asking why settle on Brassard if Sheahan wasn't good enough?

I'm not saying that. I just don't see how you move Brass for a better center.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not saying that. I just don't see how you move Brass for a better center.

You probably can't, I'd move Brassard to LW and use other assets to try and bring in a Jarnkrok or Danault type of 3C. Brassard has actually looked good with the Penguins when with Crosby, so I think it's worth seeing if he can solve Malkin's LW problem. If he flops as a LWer, then you look to dump him.

 

[Shady Machine]

You probably can't, I'd move Brassard to LW and use other assets to try and bring in a Jarnkrok or Danault type of 3C. Brassard has actually looked good with the Penguins when with Crosby, so I think it's worth seeing if he can solve Malkin's LW problem. If he flops as a LWer, then you look to dump him.

It's fine to suggest the type you want to bring in, but it gets harder when discussing specific players. Both of those guys would be very hard to get. So now you are looking at less proven versions of those players. I'm definitely open to options. I'm just not confident you can find those guys without overspending.

 

[Beauner]

I'm not saying that. I just don't see how you move Brass for a better center.

I don't think the idea is to trade Brass for a better center. It's to trade him for a better fit.

Important distinction, and I really don't have an opinion on if it's smart or realistic.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Pens can't afford a 2C at 3C that's 34, relatively injury prone and signed for 3 more years after this at $5.3MM.

Also, Carter has 10 PPP which he won't get here because he won't be on top PP. He has 8 ES points in 40 games or a 16.4 pace. You know who has more than that? Derick I'm playing really poorly Brassard, at 10 ES points in 31 games or 26 point pace.

Carter, like Brassard, is a nice to have as they can be a 2C if one of Sid or Geno go down, but why would I move Brass to bring in THAT contract? Just seems really, really bizarre.

I mean...he's not injury-prone, relative or otherwise. Prior to last year's injury - where his leg was cut by a skate - he played 82, 77 and 82 games. That's the opposite of injury prone, unless you think his cut is only in remission and will rear its ugly head again.

Like I said, nobody on LA is scoring - that's why they have the worst GF in the league. You wanna talk about ES points? Doughty has 10. It's no secret that Carter's not producing this year, but it's an anomaly. You hope that players like Carter get undervalued based on a small sample size in bad circumstances so you can pick them up for a song.

Carter, unlike Brassard, is great in the dot and good defensively. Which is why he'd likely be a much better fit at 3C. He's also big and an RH shot, which doesn't hurt his case any. He'd be a solid option for PP2 on the left boards.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lol you're funny. Those changes were made weeks ago. You just weren't paying attention. There is a risk to making system changes too early, especially when you have injuries and other things impacting your play. Change too much too soon and it could all backfire.

Sully is far from perfect, but your over the top criticism is something else.

Well no shit it was done weeks ago when the team started to play better. I've mentioned it as well. You're a riot.

Edit: listen I'm not actively trying to hate Sullivan. If he adapts and evolves his system like he has done now for almost a month, I'll drink the Sully koolaid as much as the next guy. My disdain does have some rhyme or reason.........sometimes.

 

[IcedCapp]

I'll argue this a tad. Bones in 2016 definitely did. He utilized those little area passes to spring Kessel. He also did a great job of playing defense, blocking shots, etc. to also enable Phil to just be random as hell out there and do his thing. Now that badly went to **** in the 16-17 season. But in that span of time, I thought Bones was such a great compliment because he did the things to allow Kessel to be Kessel.

And I do think we have struggled to find that Center after HBK was over with. I think Geno was just so talented that it opened up space, but it never was a great chemistry. But Pearson seems to have a nice little chemistry w/ Phil in terms of being the guy to play defense and backcheck. I feel like those 2 go into cycles well. I just really think Pearson has been better than many give him credit for. I digress.

If Brassard doesn't produce, he offers nothing for the defensive side of things. So it has to work or it flat out won't work.

I need to start putting disclaimers on my one-liners/quips.

I think you’re spot on about a C who plays defense and can get Phil the puck. That’s what he needs.

When he first got to Pittsburgh, I wanted him to play with Sid or Geno, but after seeing him with both, I want him on his own line. He can take advantage of the space they afford him (and vice versa), but he does nothing to support the grinding, down-low game that both Sid and Geno like to play. Those lines always turn into split personality lines with Sid/Geno playing one style with their LW and playing a pure rush game with Phil.

Almost think Cullen is his best fit on the current roster

 

[Peat]

Almost think Cullen is his best fit on the current roster

I suggested last year that we should re-acquire Cullen and put him with Kessel, with Cullen's minutes kept short and Kessel getting extra reps from double shifting. Might be time to resurrect this idea...

I mean...he's not injury-prone, relative or otherwise. Prior to last year's injury - where his leg was cut by a skate - he played 82, 77 and 82 games. That's the opposite of injury prone, unless you think his cut is only in remission and will rear its ugly head again.

That's the best bit of sarcasm I've read here in a long time

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Whenever he was healthy, he was being utilized on the PK regularly by Sullivan. I thought it was a solid choice given Brass's speed and ability to read plays well, but Brass has ZERO interest in blocking shots or getting into the dirty areas (key components for a PK guy).

Sid is a more willing shot blocker than Brassard

Sheahan, a person people mock a lot on the pk, has been better at killing penalties than Brass. There's not a lot that Brass does that makes it easy to defend the guy anymore.

 

[Shady Machine]

I mean...he's not injury-prone, relative or otherwise. Prior to last year's injury - where his leg was cut by a skate - he played 82, 77 and 82 games. That's the opposite of injury prone, unless you think his cut is only in remission and will rear its ugly head again.

Like I said, nobody on LA is scoring - that's why they have the worst GF in the league. You wanna talk about ES points? Doughty has 10. It's no secret that Carter's not producing this year, but it's an anomaly. You hope that players like Carter get undervalued based on a small sample size in bad circumstances so you can pick them up for a song.

Carter, unlike Brassard, is great in the dot and good defensively. Which is why he'd likely be a much better fit at 3C. He's also big and an RH shot, which doesn't hurt his case any. He'd be a solid option for PP2 on the left boards.

I thought he had other injury issues in years past, but I'm probably not remembering correctly so let's remove that concern other increased injury potential with age.

Yes LA is currently a scoring wasteland, but the lack of opportunities he will get here to produce without prime minutes + less PP time, do not justify the risk in taking on his contract. Also, LA isn't going to trade him just to trade him and if he's still as good as you think, he's going to cost a fair amount and result in potential bidding war.

Only way I see JR getting him for cheap enough for LA to move him is if Carter threatens to retire UNLESS he moves to Pittsburgh. Of course, LA could just say screw it and keep him.

All of that said, only way I am at all interested is if he comes cheap (Brass or assets from Brass + 2nd/mediocre prospect) and LA is willing to retain.

I would explore a lot of other options before trading assets for Jeff Carter.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

You probably can't, I'd move Brassard to LW and use other assets to try and bring in a Jarnkrok or Danault type of 3C. Brassard has actually looked good with the Penguins when with Crosby, so I think it's worth seeing if he can solve Malkin's LW problem. If he flops as a LWer, then you look to dump him.

You thought he looked good with Sid? I thought Brass was just kind of "there", not doing much to help nor hinder Sid
I am curious to see how Brass would look with Malkin at LW

But to your first point of moving Brass to LW and importing a 3C, what assets do you propose shipping out to acquire one?

 

[EightyOne]

I don't think the idea is to trade Brass for a better center. It's to trade him for a better fit.

Important distinction, and I really don't have an opinion on if it's smart or realistic.

It's smart. But unrealistic.

 

[ChaosAgent]

This team is getting to 15-16 levels as I said a few games ago.

People forget that while we were dominate, we just wouldn’t lose games. We always had a chance. This team has the same feel.

No. You switch Murray and Lundqvist yesterday and we lose. '15-'16 was a buzzsaw once Sully took over, Daley/Hagelin came in and Sheary/Rust came up. '15-'16 looked like a Cup winner about a month into Sully's tenure.

 

[Tom Hanks]

has everyone forgot last year that sheahan and kessel looked to be figuring it out before brass was brought in

ditching brass, who has sucked, is a risk but not a huge one

Did you forget that it was Guentzel and Kessel who were great? Sheahan was just there and didn’t get in their way. Guentzel isn’t going back there.

It’s fine to move on from Brassard but not for Sheahan.

 

[Peat]

Did you forget that it was Guentzel and Kessel who were great? Sheahan was just there and didn’t get in their way. Guentzel isn’t going back there.

It’s fine to move on from Brassard but not for Sheahan.

Sheahan was definitely making more skill plays and holding onto the puck more with that partnership. He was the third wheel, but a great one and I don't think that working is solely dependent on Guentzel.

Tbh, a huge amount of it rests on Sheahan being confident and determined, attributes that I'm not sure are his strong point.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sheahan was definitely making more skill plays and holding onto the puck more with that partnership. He was the third wheel, but a great one and I don't think that working is solely dependent on Guentzel.

Tbh, a huge amount of it rests on Sheahan being confident and determined, attributes that I'm not sure are his strong point.

I think Sheahan and Brassard are solid balances if they play well. Brassard taking his 13-15 minutes with more offensive ownership. Sheahan taking his 13-15 minutes in more defensive ownership.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

I think Riikola is one of the 6 best D on this team and I think it is no coincidence that we are winning with him in the line-up.

That being said people act like he is a top four guy around here.

He’s not a top 4 guy but has the potential to be one. His skating, mobility and passing remind me of Letang from years ago.

7 goals and Brassard was a -1. Guy is so useless most nights, even when we dominate.

Seriously, he probably won't get moved and right now we're crushing things but I'm sorry JR. That's a move that simply didn't work like you/we hoped.

They could always bench him and see how the team does without him. I bet they don’t miss a beat.

No it's not same Defense. ..

2016 Daley was legit a top pairing Dman.

His ability to turn the play back into a rush for the Pens was key to winning the cup.

We don't have that. Schultz even when healthy can't skate like that.

Daley was awesome! I guess I have an affinity for skating defensemen.

I mean, it would depend on the return. I don't think the team winning while Brassard exists on it is a particularly compelling case to retain him.

I wouldn’t trade Brassard for the sake of trading Brassard. Too much upside in him. Maybe it will show up in the playoffs.

That being said, I’m sure there is a deal out there for another more appropriate 3rd line center.

I'd have Kessel back with Malkin. Brassard isn't a guy who knows how to get the puck to Phil. You're better off putting Brass with a guy like Simon who can and a puck retriever like Rust/PH.

Brass isn't relied on to score much since we're stacking the top 6, but he still gets defensively responsible and complementary linemates.

Even though I love watching Phil with Geno, I think it’s better for the team for them to be apart. Gives them a legit threat on the top 3 lines. Also Kessel is capable of carrying his own line.

That being said, maybe moving Brassard to 4th duties may be more fitting. From what he has shown though, he might just sulk more instead of pulling up his game.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

No. You switch Murray and Lundqvist yesterday and we lose. '15-'16 was a buzzsaw once Sully took over, Daley/Hagelin came in and Sheary/Rust came up. '15-'16 looked like a Cup winner about a month into Sully's tenure.

That's pretty easy to say when Hank had a .667 save percentage and Murray had a .933

Murray has been great. DeSmith has been good too. The team is also playing much better. The improved goaltending and team play is all interconnected.