Post-Game Talk: Penguins 5, Red Wings 3: It's About the Win, Not the Style Points

[ChaosAgent]

We were, but still had more goals per game than anyone else.

2017 was a clinic in net, a clinic up front, and a just good enough mess in the middle.

Sid/Geno/Jake/Phil were incredibly opportunistic in converting their chances. We were outplayed in many games especially against Washington and Nashville.

 

[Peat]

Sid/Geno/Jake/Phil were incredibly opportunistic in converting their chances. We were outplayed in many games especially against Washington and Nashville.

Imo that doesn't contradict what I wrote, it backs it up.

 

[Icarium]

The final minutes were rough but we were on a back-to-back against a rested team with nothing to lose. We got the points, that's what matters. Malkin-Jake-Rust is pure magic, let's hope we will see it for a few more games at least without any more injuries. Murray's habit of allowing bad goals in the final minutes is concerning but getting a win will probably do him a lot of good. And we need to work on the special teams, the PP has been a mess all season, the PK was great for a while, now is back to being pretty bad. But being great 5 on 5 usually bodes well for playoff success, so...

 

[Turin]

2017 Pens were goaltending-driven.

In the playoffs? Weren't they outshot like 70% of the time?

They out chanced teams still with their quick strike offense. I don’t want to take anything away from Fleury and Murray, but when you think of a team carried by a goalie, it’s usually not accompanied by the best offense in the NHL.

 

[The Old Master]

Our PP has got to be even worse rn...we are falling down the rabbit hole with no end in sight...could have 32nd worst PP any minute now

100% on the coaching. if they can't pick 5 guys that can out play 4 ??????

 

[Ogrezilla]

Imo that doesn't contradict what I wrote, it backs it up.

They out chanced teams still with their quick strike offense. I don’t want to take anything away from Fleury and Murray, but when you think of a team carried by a goalie, it’s usually not accompanied by the best offense in the NHL.

Outside of the Ottawa series we had 44% of the shots and 58% of the goals. That's actually nuts. Both scoring and goaltending. We had a 12.6 shooting percentage compared to 7.4 for the opponents.

Our shooting dropped to 7% against Ott, but we held them to 6.6% to make up for it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

John Marino is in the Calder conversation and we got him for a 6th. Let that sink in for a second

Someone in a Marino/Bear thread insists he knows Marino personally and the Oilers never paid him any mind or offered him a contract.

If true, someone made a major f*** up in that org.

Marino vs. Bear

I know him personally from his USHL days bud . I still talk with his dad Paul a couple times a year . The Oilers showed very little interest in him and never offered him a contract . The trade came with him knowing nothing

 

[The Old Master]

I mean, not sure what you are saying with this. Look at Malkin’s numbers with Sid vs his numbers without Sid. It isn’t a small sample size. Pretty sure if you go back and watch the 2009 finals, you’ll see that Detroit tried their best d forward (Zetterberg) against Malkin, and he got destroyed. That didn’t last long. Malkin has never had a problem playing against anyone’s top 5, whether that is their best offensive or defensive group,

Malkin could have won the 2017 Smythe as well, easily, it wasn’t clear cut for Crosby, especially with Malkin’s performance in the finals.

i think you guys might be talking about two def-rent things. one is talking about playing on a line together and one is talking about same game.

 

[HandshakeLine]

They out chanced teams still with their quick strike offense. I don’t want to take anything away from Fleury and Murray, but when you think of a team carried by a goalie, it’s usually not accompanied by the best offense in the NHL.

Yeah, that's one point I'd like to make too. The second point I'd like to make is that shot totals alone don't show us anything about the quality of chances, which is much more important for evaluating the quality of goaltending.

Anyhow. Back to MM-- I thought he looked pretty good through 40 minutes of play, but that last goal was pretty soff. Mental consistency seems to be his problem these days, which is a bit of an issue because he's not as athletic as Jarry or CDS.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

A lot can happen with a rookie, so continued success is obviously not guaranteed for Marino, but man he’s got all the stuff you can’t teach.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Someone in a Marino/Bear thread insists he knows Marino personally and the Oilers never paid him any mind or offered him a contract.

If true, someone made a major **** up in that org.

Marino vs. Bear

Good old Edmonton, always pillaging their own villages.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Someone in a Marino/Bear thread insists he knows Marino personally and the Oilers never paid him any mind or offered him a contract.

If true, someone made a major **** up in that org.

Marino vs. Bear

What I love about that thread is that, instead of being a bit introspective as to why their organization traded off a bona-fide 2nd pairing blueliner with top-pairing upside for a 6th round conditional pick, there's several posters who just assume that it's because Americans are babies who don't want to live in Canada.

It's like Letterkenny, except not satire.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Good old Edmonton, always pillaging their own villages.

I watch tons of Oiler games every season... they are like my second team for 20+ years.

No clue how Oiler fans ever thought they had “too much org depth“ for Marino.

Marino is better than Bear and he’s showing he can already handle top pair minutes.

No clue what the Oilers were doing...

What I love about that thread is that, instead of being a bit introspective as to why their organization traded off a bona-fide 2nd pairing blueliner with top-pairing upside for a 6th round conditional pick, there's several posters who just assume that it's because Americans are babies who don't want to live in Canada.

It's like Letterkenny, except not satire.

Did ya, get ‘er done Oilers?

We’re just joking, we don’t give a f***.

 

[HandshakeLine]

All I can say is... Thanks Edmonton!

 

[billybudd]

Osgood? No way.

I honestly have no idea where you’re gettin any of this. It’s massively overrating Osgood while underrating the HHOF defense of the Lidstrom-era Red Wings.

Detroit-based media, local, national and blogger, have been pushing that line with one voice by playing games with the data since his retirement (nobody said this prior). Made it into the national conversation via Michigan-based the Hockey News hack Ken Campbell and other people picked it up through osmosis, without really considering the specifics of his HHOF case.

I'm with you. Osgood wasn't considered anything more than an average starter since Bowman pulled him for Vernon almost 25 years ago (with the Islanders, he was rightly considered dog ****). Vezina voting has reflected this and his salary has reflected this. If you look hard enough, you can find articles from 10 or 12 years ago in which Wings personnel say they don't feel they need more than a "dependable" goaltender, rather than an elite one, and praise Osgood for his consistency and his inexpensiveness.

Speaking of Vernon, he's another average goaltender with multiple cups, winning his second after he was over the hill. So, the idea that average goalies don't win 2 cups as starter is not correct, either.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Osgood was so obviously mediocre. I think years ago that very discussion is sorta what made me half hate the Detroit fanbase. Some serious mental gymnastics.

But hey... another feather in the cap of the argument that you don't need elite or even really terribly great goaltending...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Osgood was so obviously mediocre. I think years ago that very discussion is sorta what made me half hate the Detroit fanbase. Some serious mental gymnastics.

But hey... another feather in the cap of the argument that you don't need elite or even really terribly great goaltending...

If you have a really good team, I think you certainly can get by with a goalie who just does his job and doesn't lose you games. It's only when you've got a less than elite team that you need a goalie who can steal you multiple games to win the Cup.

I think this is the key thing people ragging on Murray and saying he isn't or wasn't "elite" miss. He didn't necessarily have to be. He was just a calm and consistent performer who did his part by not allowing games to slip away from the Pens. That was sorely missing at that point in time.

How Murray performs from now and into the future has no bearing on what he provided in 2016 and 2017, yet people seem to be re-writing his 2016 and 2017 performances based on how he's playing right now.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Agree with all that. Though I understand people's misgivings when it comes to his next contract... especially with former goaltender JR at the helm.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Agree with all that. Though I understand people's misgivings when it comes to his next contract... especially with former goaltender JR at the helm.

Well yeah, but that's an entirely different discussion. If Jake Guentzel never took the next step and remained a 22 goal, 48 point guy people probably would be skeptical about giving him the contract he ended up getting. But that doesn't mean we should pretend his 2017 playoffs performance didn't happen and he was "just a passenger".

I know you're not saying that. It's just a hot button issue for me when it comes to Murray because it seems like his detractors are using his current performance to say that's what he's always been, and ignoring just how instrumental his play in 2016 and 2017 was in the Pens finally doing something in the playoffs.

 

[Burn]

Why is Malkin so good without Sid ?

Playing behind Sid and Ovy has given Malkin 2ndary mentality.

Ive always felt that if you give Malkin his own team and stitch that C on his jersey... He's the best player in the league.