Post-Game Talk: Penguins 5, Red Wings 2 - #81, #19 Almost Get HT's; ZAR Almost Does Something

[LOGiK]

*Report*

Oops. Fat thumbs.

Careful, I'm already near ban hammer. =P
Really though. heh.

 

[HuskerTornado]

Only got to see the first period live, then had to go out. Shocked when I saw they potted 5.

 

[Son Goku]

I would just shoot ZAR into the sun....

Zach Aston Roasted

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Dumo - Letang
Leddy - Riikola
Pettersson - Schultz

What magical package of players is getting us Nick Leddy from the Islanders?

I 100% doubt the Isles give him to us short of Brassard and our 1st and a prospect.

I would rather have Goligoski. Yotes might be more motivated to give him up. If we can get Goose for Maatta, I cry at the thought of never seeing those dumb ass pinches by Olli ever again. Happy tears.

Happy, happy tears.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

In addition - he looks 100x better with Pets. And Maatta looks 100x better with Riikola. It is far from perfect, but it is slightly better.

It is amazing how much better the D looks with those 2 in the lineup.

Fire JO into the Sun!

 

[LOGiK]

It is amazing how much better the D looks with those 2 in the lineup.

Fire JO into the Sun!

I feel that is a rather expensive alternative. Plus the sun is always moving side to side forward and backward, now it's coming closer thank that winter solstice based suspiciously around the time the sun is so far away and finally starts coming back closer to give us more warmth and daylight. Which suspiciously we all celebrate this time of year.

 

[Tom Hanks]

It is amazing how much better the D looks with those 2 in the lineup.

Fire JO into the Sun!

The sun is pretty big but I feel like Oleksiak would still miss his assignment

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Damn it! That is why my only super power has been to outgrow pant sizes! It is like The Hulk, but, less muscle and mostly mad all the time. hahahahaha

Hmmm. So if we get @ColePens some Big Macs, he might move up into men's pants sizes?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I almost forgot, it sounded like a great crowd. I loved the Phil chant and the 1st star interview. A great night.

 

[Clare2904]

Miss one game and people saying Sexy Brass is ugly

 

[Peat]

I think Riikola will be back given he's an rfa. But Riikola makes more than MP and doesn't get as much time out there. So maybe Riikola won't be back.

He'll be back. If they didn't like him, he'd already be down in WBS, not getting the 3rd most ES TOI last night.

On the topic of another defenseman, I feel like people are seeing stuff that I'm not seeing with Riikola. He has a hard shot, he moves the puck really well and he skates well, those are for sure talents of his. However, I'm seeing him getting burned defensively and he seems to be taking a lot of penalties in the defensive zone. I'm not as high on Riikola as other people seem to be here, I think he should be the 7th defenseman right now. I don't think he should be a partner for Schultz, that's a disaster waiting to happen. Schultz has never been good defensively and I feel like Riikola is what Pouliot was projected to be.

Pettersson, though? Dude is a flat out gem, I'd comfortably call him the Penguins 3rd best defenseman right now. The dude looks absolutely incredible, and he's showing more and more in the offensive zone.

They can acquire that elsewhere if they trade Schultz, though. The only reason Schultz isn't clearly #1 on my list for guys most likely to be traded is because he got hurt at the start of the year. I think there is a non-zero chance that the Penguins could trade Schultz this year, especially if he looks off coming back from his injury. I think there is zero chance they trade Johnson or Pettersson.

Personally, I want them to look to move Schultz. He hasn't shown to be a $5.5 million defenseman with Letang in the lineup, he needs top PP minutes to be worth that. I'd be completely happy to move him out and bring in a cheaper puck mover, ideally someone who's also a better skater (I've never thought Schultz was that good of a skater, to be honest).

First off, I'm not sure how simultaneously questioning Riikola then saying we can trade Schultz because Riikola is the long term replacement makes sense (and yes, I know I didn't quote the post where you said that) -

But, well, I think that what you're missing is that he does a good job of playing 2 on 1s and preventing second chances. He's a guy who's frequently in trouble but never flaps and recovers well, and tbh I've got to wonder how much of the being in trouble is on him.

That said, I think you're partially right. I think he's still a little reckless in terms of what he thinks he can get away with.

However, I think we've also got to account for the fact he's in deep. See above for the ice time thing, he was taking Detroit's 2nd line and his pairing spent more time with the bottom 6 than Petterson-Johnson. I think if he was given easier deployments, he'd look less shaky. I'm hoping that as he gets more experience, he'll rise to the challenge. And I think we should see Petterson taking on that challenge before anointing him too much too.

As for Schultz - I cringe at the price you're going to have to pay for a guy who's cheaper and who's just as good a puck mover.

edit: p.s. And even if you do, I'd rather keep Schultz and run with three puck movers and move someone else (probably Maatta). Puck Movement 4 Lyfe.

 

[lordstanley91]

++++ Kessel: And props to Pearson and Brassard who were much better today. Especially Pearson. I thought Kessel was unreal and it really blows my mind why people want to move this guy. He changes the game so quickly.

++++ Sid line: Sid was incredible and I thought Rust was REALLY strong. Jake looked more of a 3rd wheel tonight and that's a good thing. (Congrats on the contract, too! Well deserved)

+++ Murray: A lot of luck and a lot of good saves. But #30 keeps building momentum! Can't deny that.

++ I'm really digging the Riikola/Maatta pairing. I just felt from an eye test tonight they look so strong in comparison to Oleksiak/Maatta. I think they have good chemistry and I like how they play together.


----- Officiating: What is going on? The amount of holding is WAY up in the league. As soon as the Pens saw Detroit getting away with it, they started holding left/right, too. There is so much interference all throughout the game. Especially in the neutral and up the ice. I really hate it. It feels like the refs are just allowing all this holding. Blatantly in front of the ref there is holding and the ref wont' call it.

I was at the game and the obstruction was pretty evident and uncalled

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

On the topic of another defenseman, I feel like people are seeing stuff that I'm not seeing with Riikola. He has a hard shot, he moves the puck really well and he skates well, those are for sure talents of his. However, I'm seeing him getting burned defensively and he seems to be taking a lot of penalties in the defensive zone. I'm not as high on Riikola as other people seem to be here, I think he should be the 7th defenseman right now. I don't think he should be a partner for Schultz, that's a disaster waiting to happen. Schultz has never been good defensively and I feel like Riikola is what Pouliot was projected to be.

Pettersson, though? Dude is a flat out gem, I'd comfortably call him the Penguins 3rd best defenseman right now. The dude looks absolutely incredible, and he's showing more and more in the offensive zone.

The thing i like about Rikola is gap control and willingness to hold the blueline.

Hes has some rough edges but his trajectory is up IMO.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think Riikola will be back given he's an rfa. But Riikola makes more than MP and doesn't get as much time out there. So maybe Riikola won't be back.

I can’t see why Riikola won’t be brought back by the org.

He’s also gotten a decent amount of ice time in the NHL, being given top pair minutes with Letang, some really healthy top four minutes, and some top PP time. So I don’t see why he would be upset and leave.

He’s adapted pretty quickly to the NHL, and while he’s still raw in some areas, he definitely has potential to grow into a top four puck mover.

Ultimately, the Pens aren’t blessed with many good blueline prospects anyway, so given how things have gone pretty well for him this season, him leaving would be kind of strange.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I've never understood how someone can make it to the highest level of hockey and still have such bad shots. Is it really that difficult to improve their velocity to the point where their slapshot velocity isn't about on par with most players' wrist shots?

Some guys just have a natural gift for it, others really work hard to improve their shots, but can never really get that velocity.

I just know that comps improved my shot so much from wood, that I’m not sure how every kid growing up using these things doesn’t have a crazy shot.

 

[Andy99]

I thought Geno looked like himself this game. Lots of energy and compete.

He didn't get the puck from his linemates as much as I'd like. When Geno is in horse mode like he was tonight just dish it to him and let him gallop.

He needs linemates who can make a good pass to him is the problem...Simon is inconsistent and Horny is not that player....

 

[Empoleon8771]

First off, I'm not sure how simultaneously questioning Riikola then saying we can trade Schultz because Riikola is the long term replacement makes sense (and yes, I know I didn't quote the post where you said that) -

The comment was that you can trade Schultz for a less risky version of Schultz, and you don't have to worry about the long run because Riikola is your long term 2nd pair RD. When I say "long term", I mean down the line, as in like 2 years from now. You can get someone like Muzzin or Green right now, with shipping off Schultz, and just plan on Riikola taking the 2nd pair RD spot once it becomes available.

 

[Peat]

The comment was that you can trade Schultz for a less risky version of Schultz, and you don't have to worry about the long run because Riikola is your long term 2nd pair RD. When I say "long term", I mean down the line, as in like 2 years from now. You can get someone like Muzzin or Green right now, with shipping off Schultz, and just plan on Riikola taking the 2nd pair RD spot once it becomes available.

I think it makes as much sense to gamble on Addison as Riikola if that's your opinion... and in either case, it's not a gamble you choose to take unless its part of making you a lot better today. Which I'm not sure is something that happens once you pay the price for a better version of Schultz.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think it makes as much sense to gamble on Addison as Riikola if that's your opinion... and in either case, it's not a gamble you choose to take unless its part of making you a lot better today. Which I'm not sure is something that happens once you pay the price for a better version of Schultz.

Yeah, why are we trading Schultz?

 

[ColePens]

For the crowd who thinks Riikola is hated by the organization...the dude EASILY could be moved to WBS. They haven't done that. They keep him up even when Ruh is in the presser with him. To me, at least, that says a lot.

I just don't think they fully trust him, but boy his game has already switched to being a bit safer. He was a little reckless in the neutral zone, especially when he tries carrying it himself. Now he's making simple dishes and playing it safer. I really like his game. I think it is evolving really well.

He's still a "rookie" in the NHL, though. So I expect his mistakes. I just really like what it is rounding into.

 

[Shady Machine]

You're not trading Maatta and Johnson, and you don't get a spot for another defenseman by trading Oleksiak or Ruhwedel.

To get another spot for a defenseman, you have to healthy scratch Pettersson (which is really dumb) or trade one of your top-5 defenseman. They obviously won't trade Dumoulin or Letang, they won't trade Johnson this early into his contract and Jiggy is talking about how much the team loves Maatta. Do the math there, it's not hard to see what would have to happen to add another defenseman.

We aren't trading Schultz. Just because we have heard the org loves Maatta doesn't mean the org doesn't love Schultz even more. Plus RH Dmen are really hard to find.

What is going to happen is we run with extra overpriced D and Riikola sits. I would guess Big Rig sits too, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if MP sat as well.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it makes as much sense to gamble on Addison as Riikola if that's your opinion... and in either case, it's not a gamble you choose to take unless its part of making you a lot better today. Which I'm not sure is something that happens once you pay the price for a better version of Schultz.

I think you can gamble on either Addison or Riikola being that 2nd pair RD in 2+ years. Maybe Riikola takes the spot first and Addison takes it if he ever reaches that level. Either way, I think we have the young guys who can replace Schultz in the long run, so you don't have to worry about down the line when it comes to the 2nd pair RD spot.

The purpose would be getting a short term upgrade on Schultz, or at least someone who's a safer option than Schultz. Whether that be Green or Muzzin doesn't matter much, it's just getting a guy that isn't coming off a broken leg and a poor season last year. Let's say you get Muzzin, you'd end up with Maatta-Muzzin as your 2nd pair for the next year and a half and then you see how far Riikola has progressed by the end of the 2019-2020 season. If he's ready to be the 2nd pair RD, you can move one of Maatta or Muzzin and then make Riikola the 2nd pair RD. I really think people overemphasize how essential it is to keep Schultz. He's in the same boat as Maatta, if you can get someone better or less risk than him, you do that. There is a ton of risk that comes with him, both from his injury and his poor play last year.

We aren't trading Schultz. Just because we have heard the org loves Maatta doesn't mean the org doesn't love Schultz even more. Plus RH Dmen are really hard to find.

What is going to happen is we run with extra overpriced D and Riikola sits. I would guess Big Rig sits too, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if MP sat as well.

I'm expecting the 2nd pair to be Maatta-Schultz and Riikola to be the #7 defenseman, so that's what I'm expecting too. Pettersson won't be sat I think, he's been way too good with Johnson for me to think that Sullivan would scratch him. I just think the Penguins should consider him as a trade candidate, with the idea of getting a better or less risky player for the 2nd pair RD spot.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, why are we trading Schultz?

Because there is a ton of risk that comes with Schultz returning to what he once was, which is basically a necessity for the Penguins defense.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because there is a ton of risk that comes with Schultz returning to what he once was, which is basically a necessity for the Penguins defense.

We just need a 30-35 point D out of Schultz that plays relatively well. Shouldn’t be too much of a risk.

If we are trying to save cap on the D, I’d say move Oleksiak first and then look at Olli. Moving Schultz leaves us with no point producing D outside of Letang.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We just need a 30-35 point D out of Schultz that plays relatively well. Shouldn’t be too much of a risk.

The risk with him comes from what will happen to his skating from his ankle/leg injury. I'm not worried about Schultz's puck moving or offensive ability. I'm concerned about his skating and how rusty he will be this year. Schultz was never that great of a skater to begin with, he was a fantastic puck mover, but his skating wasn't as good as his puck moving. What impact is a 5 month leg injury going to have on his skating? Now combine that with him playing with Maatta when he gets back, who looks even slower now, and it's not something I'm comfortable with.