Post-Game Talk: Penguins 4, Islanders 1 - What The **** Was That?

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HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
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Who wants to trade Dumo for bottom six help? Most people seem to want picks back, at least here on this board.

If you're on the trade board, then that's your own damn fault in the first place.
 
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Pens x

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Is it my fault you struggle with context?

Was Crosby being put on the third and sometimes fourth line?

Nope.

The whole allure to Hornqvist is he’s the heart and soul of a team that plays like a mad man and can help will the team to victory.

Was his presence a difference maker at any point during this woeful playoff streak they are on?

Nope.
He was third on the team in playoff points in 2017-2018, pointless against the isles (only 3 players had more than one point; Crosby had one point in the series), and tied for 4th in points against the Canadians.

That’s impressive for a 4th liner...

This team has been embarrassed in the playoffs recently, no one has been a difference-maker. It’s weird to single him out as opposed to any of the other guys.
 

LOGiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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I'm seeing Sid with 21+ on the NHL box score, Jake with 20, and Kappy with 18, though. Geno's at 19, and the rest of his line is around 18ish. That's still too much. Granted, I also don't remember seeing DOC or Jank or Lafferty on the PK, but that might be because it was almost 3 a.m. here. :laugh:

Also, how on earth are the box score and the Natural Stat Trick TOI so different? :laugh: It's almost like they're two different games.

New York Islanders @ Pittsburgh Penguins, 2021-02-18

New York Islanders - Pittsburgh Penguins - February 18th, 2021

Thats what I was looking at!

wat the heck
 
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Gurglesons

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He was third on the team in playoff points in 2017-2018, pointless against the isles (only 3 players had more than one point; Crosby had one point in the series), and tied for 4th in points against the Canadians.

That’s impressive for a 4th liner...

This team has been embarrassed in the playoffs recently, no one has been a difference-maker. It’s weird to single him out as opposed to any of the other guys.

Why are we complaining about Hornqvist still? Trade is shaping up to be fine.
 

The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
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If the D keeps playing like they have for the last few games, would it be possible to build a new third/fourth line by trading Dumo and McCann for some thougher, harder to play against type players? Would you, or would you wait til the offseason and re-asses, and maybe do a more futures based trade for who ever we choose to move?
i'm not in favor of moving quality for forth liners. if you have a gm that's paying attention you can pick a forth line off the waver wire or move up an ahler or two.
 

The Old Master

come and take it.
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You could literally say that about every player that’s been on the team for the last three years. I guess we can trade Sid since we’ve only won 1 playoff game out of 10, right?

This is such an odd take. You use this theory to justify trading anyone that’s been on the team for 3 years.
there is nothing odd about trading a 4th line player. when sid ends up on the fourth line we can trade him too.
 
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MrBurghundy

I may be older but I'm never forgetting #47 & #41
Oct 5, 2009
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He’s been a pleasant for me surprise so far. I keep waiting for him to turn back into a pumpkin, but maybe he won’t. He definitely looks like he’s stronger and maybe a half a step quicker. Now if he could stop throwing low percentage shots on the net with no one around, and maybe look for a pass in those instances, I’d have zero complaints about his game, But all in all, a really good start to this season for him.
You know what, on any other team I'd agree with you. With this team? Screw that. We need people who will just fire the puck instead of looking for a cute pass that gets turned over on a consistent basis.
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
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there is nothing odd about trading a 4th line player. when sid ends up on the fourth line we can trade him too
tenor.gif

Haha come on. He has as many or more points than every player on the Pens except Rust this season. He was on a 50 point pace last year in the regular season.

Time to move on.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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He was third on the team in playoff points in 2017-2018, pointless against the isles (only 3 players had more than one point; Crosby had one point in the series), and tied for 4th in points against the Canadians.

That’s impressive for a 4th liner...

This team has been embarrassed in the playoffs recently, no one has been a difference-maker. It’s weird to single him out as opposed to any of the other guys.

He isn’t being singled out. It’s simply explaining why he was traded.

- He had one goal total in the Isles and Habs debacles

- He was getting old and had become injury prone

- He was mostly a third liner making 5.3m

Explain to me how the devastating loss of Hornqvist hurts this team?

They could only win 1 of their last 10 with him around, but hey let’s keep things the same and never trade anyone.

Get Along Gang selfies are the coolest.
 

LiffLaff

Crazy? Me?
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i'm not in favor of moving quality for forth liners. if you have a gm that's paying attention you can pick a forth line off the waver wire or move up an ahler or two.
I'd say that would leave us in the exact position we are now.
If we could get a couple of good depth pieces along with picks, I don't think it would be the worst thing, because one thing is certain, the bottom six as constructed, just isn't good enough.
 

Empoleon8771

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If the Penguins would have kept Hornqvist, they would have a $5.3 million player who wouldn't be on one of their top-9 lines. That's not because he's not good enough, his time in Florida has shown he's still an effective top-6 winger, but he's not breaking into the Penguins top-6 and I don't think Sullivan puts him on the BART line over Tanev. You'd be in the same exact position as you were in last year, McCann and Hornqvist making up 2/3 of a 3B line. And it's worth noting that 3B line was really shitty last year.

They miss Hornqvist on the powerplay, but that's literally the only place where they miss Hornqvist.
 
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Gurglesons

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If the Penguins would have kept Hornqvist, they would have a $5.3 million player who wouldn't be on one of their top-9 lines. That's not because he's not good enough, his time in Florida has shown he's still an effective top-6 winger, but he's not breaking into the Penguins top-6 and I don't think Sullivan puts him on the BART line over Tanev. You'd be in the same exact position as you were in last year, McCann and Hornqvist making up 2/3 of a 3B line. And it's worth noting that 3B line was really shitty last year.

They miss Hornqvist on the powerplay, but that's literally the only place where they miss Hornqvist.

And hey have a player that can fill that roll but stubbornly sticking with Jake on the 1st PP over Zucker for reasons.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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Who wants to trade Dumo for bottom six help? Most people seem to want picks back, at least here on this board.

If you're on the trade board, then that's your own damn fault in the first place.

I think it depends on what Dumo can get you.

Picks is one way, certainly.

Or maybe you go for a swiss army knife or warrior type who legitimately can slot up and down the lineup and some plus (a la Whitney for Kunitz + Tangradi). Maybe that player can play C or W.

Would be nice too to know that there's an option if Zucker or Kapanen isn't playing up to snuff.
 
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Sidgeni Malkby

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Nov 19, 2008
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You know what, on any other team I'd agree with you. With this team? Screw that. We need people who will just fire the puck instead of looking for a cute pass that gets turned over on a consistent basis.

Cute hockey is part of our DNA. You know, dropping to trailing players until there are none left to pass to ☺️.

As for Horqvisr...
We needed a shake up, and if you remember, our D was extremely underwhelming the last few years. I know Matheson was a gamble, and I’m glad it’s working out!

We’ll survive without Horny.
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
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Re: Horny, I'll say the same thing I did in the off-season - based on the roster, I do not see where he fits. Still a capable player but not best used on this roster as is. Not playing with Sid, not playing over Rust or Kapanen with Geno. Wasted a bit on the 3rd line given we thought McCann would be the 3C given how they played. If we get for Horny what we got out of Matheson last night, it works for both sides.

I like your idea of: ?LW? - McCann - Rodrigues

For LW...
Can't we bring up people from WBS and see what fits? A 4th liner primarily needs energy/hunger and solid D responsibilities, and not much else. I'm kind of surprised we can't find one in our system (vs trading for one).

Issue with trading (unless you get a versatile guy that can move up and down the lineup) is you can't bury them if it doesn't work out. Look at Jankowski.

At that point it may as well be DOC or Lafferty. McCann is a good piece but the likes of Jank, ERod, Lafferty, DOC, Angello, Sceviour...they aren't moving the needle much. I'd love it we could find 1-2 crap for crap swaps with Sceviour, ERod, Jank, or Lafferty even.
 
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Empoleon8771

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I think it depends on what Dumo can get you.

Picks is one way, certainly.

Or maybe you go for a swiss army knife or warrior type who legitimately can slot up and down the lineup and some plus (a la Whitney for Kunitz + Tangradi). Maybe that player can play C or W.

Would be nice too to know that there's an option if Zucker or Kapanen isn't playing up to snuff.

I feel like the issue here is that you only have so many forward spots and I'm not sure a forward you'd acquire for Dumoulin would be happy about playing 3B minutes with McCann and say ERod.

It seems like the 3A line is going to be ZAR-Blueger-Tanev and they'll be getting around 14 minutes a night. Your top-6 will be playing its standard minutes. There are only so many minutes to go around, and acquiring say a 2nd/3rd line swiss army knife player only to play him 11 or 12 minutes a night may lead to some issues. The Brassard saga made me much more concerned about this than I was before that trade.
 

Icarium

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Feb 16, 2010
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By the way, when was the last time Letang's shot actually troubled a goalie? Not only he has zero goals but he also hardly ever makes goalies sweat when he does shoot these days. He scored quite a lot of goals in the previous two seasons, so this sudden drop is rather weird.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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I feel like the issue here is that you only have so many forward spots and I'm not sure a forward you'd acquire for Dumoulin would be happy about playing 3B minutes with McCann and say ERod.

It seems like the 3A line is going to be ZAR-Blueger-Tanev and they'll be getting around 14 minutes a night. Your top-6 will be playing its standard minutes. There are only so many minutes to go around, and acquiring say a 2nd/3rd line swiss army knife player only to play him 11 or 12 minutes a night may lead to some issues. The Brassard saga made me much more concerned about this than I was before that trade.

I'm not sure Dumo or Pets will; be happy about being a HS when everyone is healthy. Or do we scratch POJ? Or Matheson?

That said, I'm a little more concerned about Zucker and Kapanen being automatic top 6 options because there isn't another one if one of those two isn't getting it done than I am about anyone Hextall might acquire being another Brassard (who was a top line player in Ottawa when acquired).
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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I think Brassard would have gotten more minutes had he been effective. Instead, he shat the bed for a year and a half.

I'm just not following the whole 'better not acquire a guy who could slot up and down the lineup because he may be a prima donna like Brassard' angle.

I mean, I get it in the abstract, but people who run their hockey teams that way aren't going to be very successful.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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I'm not sure Dumo or Pets will; be happy about being a HS when everyone is healthy. Or do we scratch POJ? Or Matheson?

That said, I'm a little more concerned about Zucker and Kapanen being automatic top 6 options because there isn't another one if one of those two isn't getting it done than I am about anyone Hextall might acquire being another Brassard (who was a top line player in Ottawa when acquired).

I think they almost definitely send POJ to the pressbox, regardless of whether it's the right decision based on how they're playing.

If Kapanen or Zucker aren't proving to be top-6 options, you have to trade them for guys who will be. If they're not working there, you can't just slide them onto basically a 4th line and say that will be fine. They won't be happy about that and I completely believe their play would tank because of it. If they're not top-6ers for you, trade them for someone else who will be.

I recall Zucker voicing problems when he was playing down in the lineup with Minnesota last year. That option isn't going to be palatable for a long term solution.

I'm just not following the whole 'better not acquire a guy who could slot up and down the lineup because he may be a prima donna like Brassard' angle.

I mean, I get it in the abstract, but people who run their hockey teams that way aren't going to be very successful.

I mean you have to remember these players are prideful. They're not robots or hockey cards. You have to consider the human aspects of moves too.
 
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