Post-Game Talk: Penguins 3, Coyotes 2 (OT) - Geno Still Sucks, Just Not As Much With Sheahan

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah but Blandisi should be with Malkin-Kessel

wait was that a discussion that I missed?

 

[ncm7772]

The chemistry is starting to wear. Rust had a tremendous PK but his 5 on 5 shifts with Sid looked very familiar to last year's where it didn't mesh. He just looked on a different page than Sid tonight.

Agreed. Think Rust and Simon have both looked underwhelming recently.

 

[Empoleon8771]

wait was that a discussion that I missed? :Laugh:

I think I mentioned once that Blandisi has a lot of traits that you think would work with a Malkin-Kessel duo. So of course it wasn't a discussion on here, it's just more of the twisting of what people say that is a huge issue on this site

 

[ncm7772]

St Bernardus Abt 12. This 4 pack I have aged for a few years and you'd have no idea there was 10% alcohol in it.

Nice! Always see it, never buy it. I know it's not cheap, but I'm assuming it's worth it, correct?

 

[Gurglesons]

I honestly don't have any clue what you're trying to say here. Where am I reaching with either of them? I said I liked the Archibald comparison for Blandisi, and I think he could be a useful 4th line speedster for next season. What's the reach there? Is this just you being contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian again?

Saying that it's a reach to say that someone with speed and grit can be an asset to a 4th line just screams arguing for the sake of arguing to me. I don't even know where I was describing ZAR's ability or upside in any of my posts, the only comment I had on him was mentioning their unrealistic expectations for him if they weren't satisfied with his production he had recently.

Archibald played a total of 14 games as a Penguin in 3 regular seasons.

ZAR has had a decent run. Counting on him being anything but a 4th liner next year is very foolish imo.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Archibald played a total of 14 games as a Penguin in 3 regular seasons.

Uh...okay?

ZAR has had a decent run. Counting on him being anything but a 4th liner next year is very foolish imo.

I never said he was anything more than a 4th liner, I said it was more likely that the team traded Pearson to put ZAR in the top-9 than for them to replace ZAR in the lineup with someone from WBS. My original post was "I think a ZAR-Blueger-Blandisi 4th line next year could be very effective".

I'm like 99% sure you're just arguing this just to argue it, so I'm not going to bother going forward. Me saying "I like the idea of a ZAR-Blueger-Blandisi 4th line" shouldn't warrant an argument against that.

 

[Shady Machine]

I honestly don't have any clue what you're trying to say here. Where am I reaching with either of them? I said I liked the Archibald comparison for Blandisi, and I think he could be a useful 4th line speedster for next season. What's the reach there? Is this just you being contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian again?

Saying that it's a reach to say that someone with speed and grit can be an asset to a 4th line just screams arguing for the sake of arguing to me. I don't even know where I was describing ZAR's ability or upside in any of my posts, the only comment I had on him was mentioning their unrealistic expectations for him if they weren't satisfied with his production he had recently.

Last night you suggested playing him in the top 9 over Sheahan before we even saw him play a game in Pittsburgh. Safe to say you jump the gun a tad. You aren’t exclusive in that though as I’m probably a tad presumptuous with Blueger

 

[Shady Machine]

wait was that a discussion that I missed?

During GDT yes.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think I mentioned once that Blandisi has a lot of traits that you think would work with a Malkin-Kessel duo. So of course it wasn't a discussion on here, it's just more of the twisting of what people say that is a huge issue on this site

I said it was too early and you said “what has Sheahan done with them”

 

[Shady Machine]

Nice! Always see it, never buy it. I know it's not cheap, but I'm assuming it's worth it, correct?

Yes very good

 

[Gurglesons]

Uh...okay?



I never said he was anything more than a 4th liner, I said it was more likely that the team traded Pearson to put ZAR in the top-9 than for them to replace ZAR in the lineup with someone from WBS. My original post was "I think a ZAR-Blueger-Blandisi 4th line next year could be very effective".

I'm like 99% sure you're just arguing this just to argue it, so I'm not going to bother going forward. Me saying "I like the idea of a ZAR-Blueger-Blandisi 4th line" shouldn't warrant an argument against that.

Comparing Blandisi to a player that has yet to be an NHLer and saying he is a 4th liner is where I have an issue and then saying Pearson can be replaced by ZAR is where I have a bigger issue.

It isn’t an argument. It’s just saying these players are even NHLers is a stretch at this point. I can see ZAR maybe being a useful 4th liner moving forward. Blandisi is Garrett Wilson, but fast.

Uh... okay?

 

[Ryder71]

Agreed. Think Rust and Simon have both looked underwhelming recently.

Rust is consistently inconsistent as it pertains to production. That's the difference between him being a good fill in for a short period in the top six or a permanent fixture there.

 

[Shady Machine]

Rust is consistently inconsistent as it pertains to production. That's the difference between him being a good fill in for a short period in the top six or a permanent fixture there.

We say this a lot (I do it too) but wonder if the data backs it up. I would guess most solid too 6 wingers have streaky production.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

What was really an exaggeration? I just said I thought he could be a useful speedster on the 4th line for next year. I don't see how that's an exaggeration.



You've also admitted that you really don't like ZAR in the past, though

He has 11 points in 30 games this year, which is a 30 point pace per 82 games. If Sullivan is saying "his offense hasn't come along yet", they're either not actually noticing his production or they have top-6 expectations for him. He had 9 points in the 18 games before getting hurt and was playing some legitimately good hockey. If they're saying his offense hasn't come along yet (which I don't remember hearing), they must have super high expectations for him or they're just dumb. After hearing they were mad about Grant not being physical, I can't rule out the latter.

Have to jump on the ice in a min so this has to be really quick...

I have said since last year ZAR is a fourth liner, meh third liner at best IMHO.

Not sure where the confusion is... him scoring some points doesn’t change what I’m seeing with his skating and skill set.

 

[SEALBound]

This game proved yet again how unsure I am what roster moves need to be made.

Maybe getting Hornqvist and Schultz back helps but...in all honesty we're going no where if Malkin plays like this. Good time of the year to work through it...but yikes.

Lines 2 and 3 are completely mismatched, line 4 is just...yeah...

About the only thing I do know, is Riikola shouldn't come out again.

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Riikola
Pettersson-Schultz

 

[Gurglesons]

We say this a lot (I do it too) but wonder if the data backs it up. I would guess most solid too 6 wingers have streaky production.

He’s a 40 pt ES pace player the last couple years. He is definitely a top six winger.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Last night you suggested playing him in the top 9 over Sheahan before we even saw him play a game in Pittsburgh. Safe to say you jump the gun a tad. You aren’t exclusive in that though as I’m probably a tad presumptuous with Blueger

I said the 2nd line could use ZAR and that Blandisi has a lot of traits that could work on the 2nd line with Malkin and Kessel. I said there was a justification for playing him in the top-9 over Sheahan, not that they should do that.

Comparing Blandisi to a player that has yet to be an NHLer and saying he is a 4th liner is where I have an issue and then saying Pearson can be replaced by ZAR is where I have a bigger issue.

It isn’t an argument. It’s just saying these players are even NHLers is a stretch at this point. I can see ZAR maybe being a useful 4th liner moving forward. Blandisi is Garrett Wilson, but fast.

Uh... okay?

Wow, it's almost like I said neither of these.

This website has a very serious problem with people intentionally twisting what other people say to argue. It genuinely makes having discussion on this website suck because people can't have a damn honest discussion.

 

[Shady Machine]

I said the 2nd line could use ZAR and that Blandisi has a lot of traits that could work on the 2nd line with Malkin and Kessel. I said there was a justification for playing him in the top-9 over Sheahan, not that they should do that.

This website has a very serious problem with people intentionally twisting what other people say to argue. It makes posting on this site dramatically worse than it is supposed to be.

You want me to pull up the quotes?

I think you get a tad too defensive when someone questions your posts. I just think you jumped the gun a bit. No need to make it into something more than it is.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

What was really an exaggeration? I just said I thought he could be a useful speedster on the 4th line for next year. I don't see how that's an exaggeration.



You've also admitted that you really don't like ZAR in the past, though

He has 11 points in 30 games this year, which is a 30 point pace per 82 games. If Sullivan is saying "his offense hasn't come along yet", they're either not actually noticing his production or they have top-6 expectations for him. He had 9 points in the 18 games before getting hurt and was playing some legitimately good hockey. If they're saying his offense hasn't come along yet (which I don't remember hearing), they must have super high expectations for him or they're just dumb. After hearing they were mad about Grant not being physical, I can't rule out the latter.

If management brought in Grant thinking he'd be a physical force, then I'm really worried about whoever is in charge of pro scouting for the Pens.

They either didn't actually watch him and made assumptions (based on size?), or they're really bad at evaluating players.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You want me to pull up the quotes?

I think you get a tad too defensive when someone questions your posts. I just think you jumped the gun a bit. No need to make it into something more than it is.

I mean, I am completely willing to pull up the quotes:

GDT: - #47|Pens on the Road at Wiley Coyotes| Friday, Jan 18th (9:00PM) FS-A, ATTSN-PT|GRA
GDT: - #47|Pens on the Road at Wiley Coyotes| Friday, Jan 18th (9:00PM) FS-A, ATTSN-PT|GRA
GDT: - #47|Pens on the Road at Wiley Coyotes| Friday, Jan 18th (9:00PM) FS-A, ATTSN-PT|GRA

So yeah, my comment was that Blandisi has some traits that you think would work on the 2nd line and there is a justification for playing him in the top-9 over Sheahan, based on Sheahan being a 4th line center being forced to the wing and Blandisi having success in a top-9 winger role in the past. That's it.

I only get defensive when people intentionally misrepresent what I'm saying, like when someone in the salary cap thread said I was "promoting keeping Jack Johnson over Phil Kessel" because I said I didn't want to gut my defensive depth to add Jordan Staal. It's a massive problem on this site because people can't have a discussion without making crap strawman arguments.

Have to jump on the ice in a min so this has to be really quick...

I have said since last year ZAR is a fourth liner, meh third liner at best IMHO.

Not sure where the confusion is... him scoring some points doesn’t change what I’m seeing with his skating and skill set.

My comment wasn't at your opinion of ZAR, it was at the team thinking he hasn't developed offensively despite putting up a 30 point pace in mostly a bottom-6 role. If they actually think that, they have way too high of expectations for him. Or they're just dumb.

If management brought in Grant thinking he'd be a physical force, then I'm really worried about whoever is in charge of pro scouting for the Pens.

They either didn't actually watch him and made assumptions (based on size?), or they're really bad at evaluating players.

Yeah, that's what my comment about ZAR was saying too. Like if they're unhappy with his offensive development so far, what were they expecting? Were they expecting him to follow the Guentzel route and be a 60 point, top-6 power forward a year and a half into his pro career? It just seems really odd for them to think he hasn't developed much offensively when he had produced like he did before his injury, to the point where the only logical answers are that they're dumb or they have way too high of expectations for him.

 

[Burn]

Malkin needs some speed on his line. Players that can transport and then make a play... Instead of just tossing every shot on net.

I like TPs game but he needs to push offensively. Hes not getting that shot off like he used too. Seems like he's chasing pucks more than getting picks in the offensive areas.

 

[Gurglesons]

I said the 2nd line could use ZAR and that Blandisi has a lot of traits that could work on the 2nd line with Malkin and Kessel. I said there was a justification for playing him in the top-9 over Sheahan, not that they should do that.



Wow, it's almost like I said neither of these.

This website has a very serious problem with people intentionally twisting what other people say to argue. It genuinely makes having discussion on this website suck because people can't have a damn honest discussion.

I don’t know how else I should construe

“I like a 4th line of Blandisi - TB - ZAR”

And

“I could see them moving Pearson to move ZAR up into the top nine”

 

[Ryder71]

We say this a lot (I do it too) but wonder if the data backs it up. I would guess most solid too 6 wingers have streaky production.

Let me be more specific then. Most top six wingers who go through such streaks aren't likely to be completely invisible in racking up points. They'll have dips in production, but don't go completely cold. Well, in most cases. I think it's the degree of the slump more so than a slump itself. Even Laine went through a dip, but when he's on a terror he's second to very few.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t know how else I should construe

“I like a 4th line of Blandisi - TB - ZAR”

I think a speedy and gritty pest is a great fit for the 4th line RW spot, both this year and beyond. I'm really excited to see what a ZAR-Blueger-Blandisi line looks like next year, I think that can be a very effective line.

“I could see them moving Pearson to move ZAR up into the top nine”

I think it's way more likely that they trade Pearson and promote ZAR to the top-9 than for them to replace ZAR with someone from WBS.

If you're going to bother replying to me, actually read what I'm saying. I'm getting really tired of you responding to me with half baked responses with blatantly disingenuous comments. Me saying "I think a ZAR-Blueger-Blandisi line could be really effective" is saying just that. Me saying "I think it's more likely that they make a top-9 spot for ZAR than to scratch him for someone from WBS" is saying just that. Stop trying so damn hard to twist what I'm saying to make it easier to argue against. None of my comments even warranted a ****ing argument, it was just an aside about some decently promising young players that the Penguins have.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you're going to bother replying to me, actually read what I'm saying. I'm getting really tired of you responding to me with half baked responses with blatantly disingenuous comments. Me saying "I think a ZAR-Blueger-Blandisi line could be really effective" is saying just that. Me saying "I think it's more likely that they make a top-9 spot for ZAR than to scratch him for someone from WBS" is saying just that. Stop trying so damn hard to twist what I'm saying to make it easier to argue against.

I have no idea how you quote yourself literally saying those things and then act like you aren’t lol.

Blandisi - TB - ZAR is a huge question mark for a contender on line 4.

Proposing Pearson be moved so ZAR can be a top nine winger is clearly implying ZAR has the ability to replace Pearson which is also a huge question mark for a contender.