Salary Cap: Penguins 2013-14 cap/roster building discussion (Contract chart in Post #1)

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KIRK

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Getting rid of Vitale would be REALLY stupid. He's an excellent faceoff guy, he brings immense speed, tenacity, forechecking ability and physical play. He is pretty much the PERFECT 4th liner, despite the fact that he's not 6'4, but he certainly plays bigger than his size. He brings energy and momentum to this team on 100% of the shifts he plays, which is something we need. And I believe he has upside as a very good PKer one day, and can play RW if needed.

We all know Adams has 1 year left in him tops on this team, and who knows if we'll re-sign Glass. Factoring that in, and especially with Jeffrey gone, losing Vitale would be a terrible move. And the other guys who might have a shot at being 4th liners on this team (Rust, Macaroni) are at least 2-3 years away. I have no problem paying him in the range of what Tanner Glass or Max Talbot makes on a 4-5 year deal. Anything less than that $ would just be gravy.







Obviously, when you're talking about young guys who have upside, it's the buying out of UFA years that's going, to drive the price up, but I don't see us doing this with either of these 2 players, because it's still too soon to gauge where just how good they're going to be and how soon. I believe we'll do bridge deals on both these players so their next contracts will expire before they hit UFA status.

I see Despres at 2 or 3 year deal (year one $1.5, year two $1.75 and year three $2.0), and Megna on a 2 year deal averaging right around $1million or less over those 2 years (i.e. year one $800k, year two $900k-$1million)

Yes you do know. :cry:
 

Jag68Sid87

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Oct 1, 2003
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To me, the perfect fourth liner makes the minimum salary. I'd have no problem letting Vitale sign for more money elsewhere, and plug in Zach Sill. His physicality is more impressive than any fourth liner we have (aside from Deryk Engelland's two games played at forward).

The start of becoming a tougher team should begin with Sill and Engelland as two thirds of our fourth line next season. I doubt we'll be able to move Adams, so I guess he is the de facto left wing on that unit. But we can also add an enforcer type or a Farnham to complete the fourth line.

Vitale is not an essential re-signing, not in the least. And he looks worse the more you play him.
 

Jacob

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Feb 27, 2002
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If we can re-sign Engelland and Vitale for under 800k apiece I'd do it. Sill - Vitale - Engelland as the 4th line with Adams as the 13th forward makes sense... and of course Engelland can fill in on D should injuries arise.

The only question mark would be if Engelland would actually be okay with playing more forward than D, but I don't see why he wouldn't be. He's a fringe roster player on most NHL teams.
 

wej20

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Didn't Carkner get 1.5 from the Isles? I could see Engelland getting that from someone even though he's not worth it.
 

DrDangles

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Megna's next contract

I know it's a bit early to be discussing this sort of thing. But I think he has the potential to be one of our most valuable roster players all things considered. Where do you gauge his dollar amount assuming he earns a 1-way contract? Could he be our next great bargain player?
 

BigEezyE22

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I know it's a bit early to be discussing this sort of thing. But I think he has the potential to be one of our most valuable roster players all things considered. Where do you gauge his dollar amount assuming he earns a 1-way contract? Could he be our next great bargain player?

Probably Vitale type money.
 

JTG

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Sep 30, 2007
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I think Megna and Beau Bennett are the answer to our top 6 prayers. I had, and still sort of do have, reservations about him, but fact is...he's one of those players who seems to be a lightning rod. I cannot remember the last time I sat here and thought, this guy makes Evgeni Malkin better. I think Megna does. I think Geno feeds off of him. It's pretty cool to see.
 

Honour Over Glory

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Jan 30, 2012
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I wouldn't be mad if Shero re-signed Jokinen to a 2yr deal. He fits in well with this team and it isn't a oh he's just now producing type of thing, he has the moment he joined.

If the Pens can get him signed at the actual cap hit before the Canes eating a portion of it, which is what, 3m/yr? That'd be a solid deal for a 50+ pt winger/center.

With the way things go with this team and injuries, I would want him around since Sutter is not likely a guy that can "Staal" up and play 2nd line C and produce like one.
 

Honour Over Glory

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I think Megna and Beau Bennett are the answer to our top 6 prayers. I had, and still sort of do have, reservations about him, but fact is...he's one of those players who seems to be a lightning rod. I cannot remember the last time I sat here and thought, this guy makes Evgeni Malkin better. I think Megna does. I think Geno feeds off of him. It's pretty cool to see.

I'm a fan of Beau as well, but I think I want to see him stay healthy and produce as one first. He's given us glimpses, a solid bunch of glimpses of his skill but he has to stay healthy and prove he belongs there, rather than just a default situation because there isn't anyone better. Even then, I think Bylsma finds a way to mess that up, royally.

Megna is definitely a guy I like the more I see though, he's a smarter player than I thought he was. Megna might get a better shot because on the outside, he looks like a grinder, but if you dig deeper, the kid has more elements to his game than people wanted to give him credit for.
 

66-30-33

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Yeah, we definitely need a wing that could convert to a center. There's not too many other options out there.

ROR can play C or W but would cost a good deal to get. I'm starting to wonder if Pens should target Kulemin if Megna can keep this up. Make him Malkins full time LW, just find someone for Crosby's RW in trade (Cammy?), or FA.

Kunitz-Crosby-UFA
Megna-Malkin-Neal
BB-Sutter-Dupuis
 

Honour Over Glory

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ROR can play C or W but would cost a good deal to get. I'm starting to wonder if Pens should target Kulemin if Megna can keep this up. Make him Malkins full time LW, just find someone for Crosby's RW in trade (Cammy?), or FA.

Kunitz-Crosby-UFA
Megna-Malkin-Neal
BB-Sutter-Dupuis

I don't get why you have BB on the 3rd line and then Megna on the 2nd with a vacancy on the 1st line RW spot.

Kulemin is likely going to get over paid by someone unless Geno's friendship and the idea of him being on a team that doesn't suck, makes him take a cap hit to come here. As for Cammalleri, if the Pens are truly interested, I think they make a player for him at the deadline and get some familiarity there with him, but I think they pass on that.

I'd rather see this...

Kunitz, Crosby, Bennett
Jokinen, Malkin, Neal - This line, if healthy, will produce like one of the best lines in the league and we know it, they had chemistry almost instantly, it also gives Geno a guy that can take draws and win if he gets booted.
Dupuis, Sutter, Megna - A guy that drives the net like Megna will clean up on a lunch-pail line like this, I think it has the speed and tenacity to be a line that can also produce and wreak havoc.

Yeah, we definitely need a wing that could convert to a center. There's not too many other options out there.

Jussi fit in almost instantly last year and he finds his role on any line he's on, I would keep him around because he works, he its, and he is a solid versatile player. Unless another team offers him a crazy contract and he walks, the team really doesn't have that with anyone else. Pens track record with injuries shows that we need a player like Jokinen, not him exactly if he walks, but a player like him. A Winger that can play both sides of the Wing and Center. That's a hell of a lot of versatility to have in your line-up and a guy that produces like a top 6 player.
 

Waffle Fries

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ROR can play C or W but would cost a good deal to get. I'm starting to wonder if Pens should target Kulemin if Megna can keep this up. Make him Malkins full time LW, just find someone for Crosby's RW in trade (Cammy?), or FA.

Kunitz-Crosby-UFA
Megna-Malkin-Neal
BB-Sutter-Dupuis

Bennett is much better suited for the top six than Megna. I love the kid a lot and it's been refreshing to see the youth and energy he's brought to the lineup, but I'm still not convinced that his career path is that of a top six winger. I think his game will ultimately be better suited in an energy role.

Kunitz/Bennett-Crosby-UFA/Bennett
Kunitz/Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Megna-Sutter-Dupuis

Is a better set up in my opinion.
 

Honour Over Glory

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Bennett is much better suited for the top six than Megna. I love the kid a lot and it's been refreshing to see the youth and energy he's brought to the lineup, but I'm still not convinced that his career path is that of a top six winger. I think his game will ultimately be better suited in an energy role.

Kunitz/Bennett-Crosby-UFA/Bennett
Kunitz/Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Megna-Sutter-Dupuis

Is a better set up in my opinion.

I think he can be a more effective version of Tyler Kennedy, he has the size to battle around the crease and not get knocked around and he doesn't have the world's most elite chest snipe which is always a great thing.
 

Waffle Fries

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I think he can be a more effective version of Tyler Kennedy, he has the size to battle around the crease and not get knocked around and he doesn't have the world's most elite chest snipe which is always a great thing.

I think Megna's similar to Kennedy in his speed and work ethic. They're both energy players who are relatively strong on the forecheck. I think there's a lot of differences in their games though.

Megna might be able to make better one on one plays than Kennedy. It also seems they get their goals in different ways. Most of Megna's goals come from crashing/standing around the net whereas Kennedy constantly shot from that same spot in the right circle. Megna also has better size.

Career trajectory wise they are probably similar. I think Megna will ultimately be a third line winger who provides energy, a decent amount of offense, and can fill into the top six if there are injuries.

However, I don't think Megna's vision/passing is up to a level that would enable him to be a top six winger that wouldn't be frustrating to watch.
 

Tender Rip

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Career trajectory wise they are probably similar. I think Megna will ultimately be a third line winger who provides energy, a decent amount of offense, and can fill into the top six if there are injuries.

However, I don't think Megna's vision/passing is up to a level that would enable him to be a top six winger that wouldn't be frustrating to watch.

Difficult thing with Megna and career trajectory.... what with him starting out playing serious hockey late. There's really a lot of good things to say about him when it comes to physical gifts, ability with the puck as well as his intensity level and willingness to go to the dirty areas. If the game slows down for him a bit with more NHL experience, he could be really, really good.

In the past he has shown almost explosive progression year on year after acclimating to new levels of competition.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=123364 .

We can't really know what we have here, IMO. But at worst he is going to be a very nice energy player for the third line.
 

Waffle Fries

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Difficult thing with Megna and career trajectory.... what with him starting out playing serious hockey late. There's really a lot of good things to say about him when it comes to physical gifts, ability with the puck as well as his intensity level and willingness to go to the dirty areas. If the game slows down for him a bit with more NHL experience, he could be really, really good.

In the past he has shown almost explosive progression year on year after acclimating to new levels of competition.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=123364 .

We can't really know what we have here, IMO. But at worst he is going to be a very nice energy player for the third line.

He is an interesting case for sure. He certainly has many of the physical tools, I'm just not sure he'll ever see the game at a high enough level to stay on a scoring line long term. I hope he proves me wrong though. I'm having so much fun watching him and the other young guys play.
 

Riptide

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Jussi fit in almost instantly last year and he finds his role on any line he's on, I would keep him around because he works, he its, and he is a solid versatile player. Unless another team offers him a crazy contract and he walks, the team really doesn't have that with anyone else. Pens track record with injuries shows that we need a player like Jokinen, not him exactly if he walks, but a player like him. A Winger that can play both sides of the Wing and Center. That's a hell of a lot of versatility to have in your line-up and a guy that produces like a top 6 player.

My issue with JJ is how little Malkin did with him and no Neal. Then Neal comes back, and Malkin lights it up. I like JJ, and his versatility. But I'd like to see Shero go in a different direction if possible. I mean if he can't get anyone else, sure bring him back at 2.5m for 2 years... but I'd have concerns if it was for more money, or a longer term.

But there's some decent forwards available this summer... I'd rather take a run at them first.
 

JTG

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My issue with JJ is how little Malkin did with him and no Neal. Then Neal comes back, and Malkin lights it up. I like JJ, and his versatility. But I'd like to see Shero go in a different direction if possible. I mean if he can't get anyone else, sure bring him back at 2.5m for 2 years... but I'd have concerns if it was for more money, or a longer term.

But there's some decent forwards available this summer... I'd rather take a run at them first.

Depending on Jokinen's salary...I'd look into keeping him around for versatility alone. Also an interesting note...he has 1 more goal and 2 more points than Iginla.

I don't really see those decent forwards. When I see that list of impending UFA's, I think to myself, oh...it'd be nice to have him. Then I think about it and that guy I'd like to have probably wouldn't be much better than what we have internally. Certainly wouldn't be more cost effective. The guys at the top are injury prone. Would it be fun to bring Gaborik in? Sure. Is it smart? No way

The only guys who really intrigued me in terms of UFA's were Setoguchi and Ott. And in terms of who this team would benefit most from...I think it would be Ott. I have fell off the Kulemin train. He hasn't produced in quite some time now.

The very best fit for the team, I think, would be Ryan Callahan, but the odds of that are slim to none.
 
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jmelm

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If we can re-sign Engelland and Vitale for under 800k apiece I'd do it. Sill - Vitale - Engelland as the 4th line with Adams as the 13th forward makes sense... and of course Engelland can fill in on D should injuries arise.

The only question mark would be if Engelland would actually be okay with playing more forward than D, but I don't see why he wouldn't be. He's a fringe roster player on most NHL teams.


I don't think that's the only question. I think there are a lot of teams who are thin on D and are going to see Engo like a Corey Sarich type of player (in terms of pay & role, since I actually think Engo is better than Sarich). I would not be surprised AT ALL to see some or several teams offer Engo $2.5ish, and I don't blame him for taking it. That is is why I don't have him in my projected line up going forward from next season.


I would be VERY surprised if Engo doesn't get a hefty raise, and I don't think it comes from us, especially since Adams is signed for another year (aka 4th line RW), and they may also consider that they don't want to lose Samuelsson for nothing and pencil him in as the #7Dman if they can't get something for him in a trade.
 

66-30-33

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I don't get why you have BB on the 3rd line and then Megna on the 2nd with a vacancy on the 1st line RW spot.

Kulemin is likely going to get over paid by someone unless Geno's friendship and the idea of him being on a team that doesn't suck, makes him take a cap hit to come here. As for Cammalleri, if the Pens are truly interested, I think they make a player for him at the deadline and get some familiarity there with him, but I think they pass on that.

I'd rather see this...

Kunitz, Crosby, Bennett
Jokinen, Malkin, Neal - This line, if healthy, will produce like one of the best lines in the league and we know it, they had chemistry almost instantly, it also gives Geno a guy that can take draws and win if he gets booted.
Dupuis, Sutter, Megna - A guy that drives the net like Megna will clean up on a lunch-pail line like this, I think it has the speed and tenacity to be a line that can also produce and wreak havoc.



Jussi fit in almost instantly last year and he finds his role on any line he's on, I would keep him around because he works, he its, and he is a solid versatile player. Unless another team offers him a crazy contract and he walks, the team really doesn't have that with anyone else. Pens track record with injuries shows that we need a player like Jokinen, not him exactly if he walks, but a player like him. A Winger that can play both sides of the Wing and Center. That's a hell of a lot of versatility to have in your line-up and a guy that produces like a top 6 player.

I only left BB on the 3rd because i think him and Dupuis would make a pretty good scoring line there. Megna just to try him out longer in a top 6 role, see what we have got. Cammy just to have that guy who can relieve pressure from Crosby, you can even put Stewart in his place if you wish. Knowing DB though....

KCD
JJ-Malkin-Neal
Adams-Sutter-BB
Megna-Vitale-Sill

Assuming we re-sign Vitale which how he's been mishandeled by DB he will probably test UFA waters.
 

Riptide

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Assuming we re-sign Vitale which how he's been mishandeled by DB he will probably test UFA waters.

All depends. While I don't think he'd have a hard time finding a job, I would think that someone in his position would turn down an extension as long as Shero is fair with him.

I know I'd hate to be a 4th line player who's a FA in July. I believe he could find a job... but would he really want to take that risk vs getting something guaranteed from Shero?
 

66-30-33

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All depends. While I don't think he'd have a hard time finding a job, I would think that someone in his position would turn down an extension as long as Shero is fair with him.

I know I'd hate to be a 4th line player who's a FA in July. I believe he could find a job... but would he really want to take that risk vs getting something guaranteed from Shero?

Might aswell see what's out there, if nothing really and Shero wants to keep him then he could stay here. If i was him i'd go look for a team that will use me better. I'd love to see a 4th line of Farnham-Vitale-Sill next season, it would be a high energy line that's fun to watch.
 

JTG

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Sep 30, 2007
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If we let Joe Vitale walk, I'll be really concerned. We need more guys like Vitale in the bottom 6...not less. And the guy is a faceoff stud.

I very highly doubt though some team is sitting there saying, "That Joe Vitale could be a really good 3rd liner for us." He's not capable of filling that role. He's a 4th line center, but in today's NHL, teams are willing to pay for 4th liners who can win up around 60% of their draws, kill penalties, and bring energy. I really hope we're one of them.
 

66-30-33

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If we let Joe Vitale walk, I'll be really concerned. We need more guys like Vitale in the bottom 6...not less. And the guy is a faceoff stud.

I very highly doubt though some team is sitting there saying, "That Joe Vitale could be a really good 3rd liner for us." He's not capable of filling that role. He's a 4th line center, but in today's NHL, teams are willing to pay for 4th liners who can win up around 60% of their draws, kill penalties, and bring energy. I really hope we're one of them.

With the cap going north of 70M, we could probably keep Vitale at 1M max, that's going to be the norm for 4th liners very soon, especially with an 80M cap in the next couple years. I'd say Vitale's price range will be 800K-1M.
 
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