Confirmed with Link: Pearson For Gubranson

[Shady Machine]

Demers isn't a "poor contract", though. He was a legitimately good defenseman.

And it was rumored that Anaheim and Detroit also offered Johnson multi-year deals with a higher AAV, according to Mackey. You also ignored the real part of my question. Do you really think JR is making moves that no other GM is even in the conversation about?

Yes other GM's make poor choices too. What am I supposed to do with that? Are you suggesting JR can/will move Gudbranson in the off season if the Pens get bounced early? If not, what on earth is your point?

 

[Icarium]

And it was rumored that Anaheim and Detroit also offered Johnson multi-year deals with a higher AAV, according to Mackey.

I bet Anaheim and Detroit wouldn't do that if Johnson was an UFA right now, though. JR defending the JJ signing in the summer is one thing, defending it now when he is so obviously dragging the team down is another.

 

[PensandCaps]

We can still trade for Kunitz, technically.

 

[Shady Machine]

And it was rumored that Anaheim and Detroit also offered Johnson multi-year deals with a higher AAV, according to Mackey. You also ignored the real part of my question. Do you really think JR is making moves that no other GM is even in the conversation about?

So JR was the biggest idiot out of the bunch. Is that supposed to make me feel good?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes other GM's make poor choices too. What am I supposed to do with that? Are you suggesting JR can/will move Gudbranson in the off season if the Pens get bounced early? If not, what on earth is your point?

Yes, that's literally the entire point of what I'm saying. I have no idea how it took you this long to figure that out.

I bet Anaheim and Detroit wouldn't do that if Johnson was an UFA right now, though. JR defending the JJ signing in the summer is one thing, defending it now when he is so obviously dragging the team down is another.

Jack Johnson is the same player today that he has been for his entire career.

So JR was the biggest idiot out of the bunch. Is that supposed to make me feel good?

It's like you're intentionally ignoring the point of my posts.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Here's some Guds breakdown:

https://thehockeywriters.com/vancouver-canucks-gudbranson-trade-big-win/

He's the literal JJ of the Western conference.
It's gonna be interesting who ends up on top of "worst PIT defender" tho.
Kinda excited to see it actually.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Oh no, I don't disagree. I hate the deal because of that. The thing I'm arguing here is that people think JR is somehow unique in targeting guys like Gudbranson, as if there aren't a lot of other GMs who target guys like him.

And it was rumored that Anaheim and Detroit also offered Johnson multi-year deals with a higher AAV, according to Mackey. You also ignored the real part of my question. Do you really think JR is making moves that no other GM is even in the conversation about?

Frankly, I don't care that some other bad GMs target some of the players we've targeted. My problem is that we're paying for negative value assets who don't help us now and crossing our fingers that we don't have to pay much to offload them later, like we had to do with Hunwick.

We're not exactly awash in disposable assets we can afford to give up so that someone takes on our shitty contracts.

 

[Icarium]

Jack Johnson is the same player today that he has been for his entire career.

He has had two 40+ points seasons, surely he used to be better than what he is now?

 

[Empoleon8771]

It doesn’t matter what other GMs do, it matters that JR has been in a massive rut for over a year and half, and he just made another bone head move based on the ideology that got him into this mess.

Again, I'm not defending this move. It's a terrible move. The best case scenario is the Penguins trading Gudbranson after the year.

And there is ample evidence out there that moving a bad deal is never a freebie. Believing otherwise is once again head in the sand thinking.

A team with Malkin, Crosby, and Letang playing at a Norris level, along with Rust and Guentzel having career years shouldn’t be fighting for a playoff spot. That can only happen when your GM completely botches the rest of the roster and this deal shows he’s still lost...

No, it's actually having knowledge of other teams in the NHL instead of pretending that your GM is the only idiot that makes these kind of decisions. Just like with the Johnson contract, it's really obvious that fans are incapable of differentiating what they think and what other GMs think.

Fans have a huge problem where they think whatever team makes a bad move is the only team that wanted to make that move. They'd rather think their GM is an idiot or another fan's GM is an idiot instead of realizing that a vast majority of GMs are idiots.

 

[Andy99]

Yes, that's literally the entire point of what I'm saying. I have no idea how it took you this long to figure that out.



Jack Johnson is the same player today that he has been for his entire career.



It's like you're intentionally ignoring the point of my posts.

JR might be able to move Guds but it’s going to cost assets...that’s how you become a worse team and close Cup windows...keep paying for players who are bad, with term, and then be forced to essentially pay other teams to take them from you...

 

[Shady Machine]

Yes, that's literally the entire point of what I'm saying. I have no idea how it took you this long to figure that out.



Jack Johnson is the same player today that he has been for his entire career.



It's like you're intentionally ignoring the point of my posts.

No I don't understand them because you do this a lot. You argue the contrarian point and call out the entire board when you actually agree with the board. People all get confused and then you say we don't have reading comprehension or are ignoring you. Your point doesn't do anything for anyone. Other GM's blow too!!! Okay cool

As for being able to move him in the offseason, I think it can be done (if JR wants to but seeing how pumped he sounded about Gudbranson, I doubt he moves him that early) but he will have to take back money in the deal.

 

[EightyOne]

Here's some Guds breakdown:

https://thehockeywriters.com/vancouver-canucks-gudbranson-trade-big-win/

He's the literal JJ of the Western conference.
It's gonna be interesting who ends up on top of "worst PIT defender" tho.
Kinda excited to see it actually.

If you can't cut it in the west, you sure won't cut it in the east, right?

 

[NMK11]

Yes, that's literally the entire point of what I'm saying. I have no idea how it took you this long to figure that out.



Jack Johnson is the same player today that he has been for his entire career.



It's like you're intentionally ignoring the point of my posts.

I honestly think you're just arguing with yourself. Most people in this thread probably think we can move him if JR wants, but that it will likely cost us assets to do so (see: Hunwick) or we'll have to retain a good chunk of his salary to get it done.

Ergo, made a bad move for no apparent reason, and it will likely cost us to fix it. I don't understand why you're hellbent on proving this point that other GMs make bad moves too in a thread looking at one trade and evaluating OUR GM.

 

[WayneSid9987]

 

[LittleSpoon]

You guys just cant see what JR sees with his wizard glasses on. Diamonds in the rough, and a premonition of another stanley cup in 2019.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No I don't understand them because you do this a lot. You argue the contrarian point and call out the entire board when you actually agree with the board. People all get confused and then you say we don't have reading comprehension or are ignoring you. Your point doesn't do anything for anyone. Other GM's blow too!!! Okay cool

It's not arguing the contrarian point to point out that JR isn't unique. It's having a basic semblance of perspective. Which people on this site can't seem to understand, because they somehow think Rutheford is the only GM that makes these kind of moves.

 

[Shady Machine]

No, it's actually having knowledge of other teams in the NHL instead of pretending that your GM is the only idiot that makes these kind of decisions. Just like with the Johnson contract, it's really obvious that fans are incapable of differentiating what they think and what other GMs think.

Fans have a huge problem where they think whatever team makes a bad move is the only team that wanted to make that move. They'd rather think their GM is an idiot or another fan's GM is an idiot instead of realizing that a vast majority of GMs are idiots.

Did anyone in this thread say "JR is the biggest idiot of all GM's, no other GM's make idiotic moves"?

 

[Shady Machine]

I honestly think you're just arguing with yourself. Most people in this thread probably think we can move him if JR wants, but that it will likely cost us assets to do so (see: Hunwick) or we'll have to retain a good chunk of his salary to get it done.

Ergo, made a bad move for no apparent reason, and it will likely cost us to fix it. I don't understand why you're hellbent on proving this point that other GMs make bad moves too in a thread looking at one trade and evaluating OUR GM.

THANK YOU!!!

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

Because he's a player that lives and dies by his speed, and he's aging. Because he hasn't looked good anywhere in the lineup for a long time. Because he's a valuable asset on a team with multiple issues that need trades to be solved. Because he and Sully don't see eye to eye (this is today's biggest understatement, btw).

I don't know. The writing's been on the wall with Phil for a year now, I think. I'd be shocked if he made it to October on this team. But again, if you told me we'd go after Reaves, Oleksiak, JJ and Gudbranson after we won our 2nd of back to back Cups, I'd let out quite the hearty chuckle.

So, being a point per game player means he's on the down slope now? If he's aging so badly, who would want to trade valuable assets for him that we would actually win the trade or even break even? I just don't see a situation where trading Kessel does anything good for us. It would be making a hole to maybe fill another. What would you even trade for? We don't need a center, we don't need a goalie, who's trading a top 4 d better than Maatta/Schultz for him? I just don't see it making us better but that's just me.

 

[Shady Machine]

It's not arguing the contrarian point to point out that JR isn't unique. It's having a basic semblance of perspective. Which people on this site can't seem to understand, because they somehow think Rutheford is the only GM that makes these kind of moves.

Why are you constantly bringing up that point in this thread? What are you even trying to prove? I know other GM's make dumb moves too. Is that supposed to make me feel better when my GM made our defense significantly worse?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Again, I'm not defending this move. It's a terrible move. The best case scenario is the Penguins trading Gudbranson after the year.



No, it's actually having knowledge of other teams in the NHL instead of pretending that your GM is the only idiot that makes these kind of decisions. Just like with the Johnson contract, it's really obvious that fans are incapable of differentiating what they think and what other GMs think.

Fans have a huge problem where they think whatever team makes a bad move is the only team that wanted to make that move. They'd rather think their GM is an idiot or another fan's GM is an idiot instead of realizing that a vast majority of GMs are idiots.

It doesn’t matter what other GMs do, it matters that JR has made many bad decisions since the summer of 2017. How difficult is that to understand?

He’s literally made what... two decent moves in that span... Riikola and MP.

And let’s keep ignoring that we don’t have to be another teams GM to see all the trends when it comes to moving a bad deal... they aren’t free to move. We don’t have to be another teams GM to understand they aren’t going to take on a bad deal without getting an asset in return.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Did anyone in this thread say "JR is the biggest idiot of all GM's, no other GM's make idiotic moves"?

It's like your intentionally ignoring my point. Why even respond to me if you're ignoring the point?

Let's go back to the beginning, this was my original post:

Dale Tallon offered Jason Demers straight up for Gudbranson 16 months ago. It only didn't happen because of Demers' NTC.

I really don't get people on here. Do people think JR is just an idiot and does moves that literally no other GM would do? This isn't justifying this move, it's a terrible move, but I really think people don't have the perspective needed to say stuff like this.

This was in reply to someone saying the Gudbranson contract wasn't immovable, the Penguins would just have to add on top of Gudbranson to move him. My point was that JR isn't unique with how he runs teams, because there are multiple GMs that do the same moves that he does. This is me saying "the Penguins can trade Gudbranson without adding to him". I'm accusing people here of not knowing nearly enough about other GMs to claim that a contract is immovable or the Penguins would have to add to get a team to take Gudbranson. That was the entire point of my posts, that they can trade Gudbranson if they wanted to.

 

[LittleSpoon]

It's like your intentionally ignoring my point. Why even respond to me if you're ignoring the point?

Let's go back to the beginning, this was my original post:



This was in reply to someone saying the Gudbranson contract wasn't immovable, the Penguins would just have to add on top of Gudbranson to move him. My point was that JR isn't unique with how he runs teams, because there are multiple GMs that do the same moves that he does. This is me saying "the Penguins can trade Gudbranson without adding to him". I'm accusing people here of not knowing nearly enough about other GMs to claim that a contract is immovable or the Penguins would have to add to get a team to take Gudbranson. That was the entire point of my posts, that they can trade Gudbranson if they wanted to.

*slow clap*

 

[WayneSid9987]

Here's a great summary of Guds from a guy that really knows his stuff. Even called the "someone will want this guy cuz he's good in the room..." heh.

Burke: Can make legitimate case Gudbranson is worst defenseman in NHL

 

[Will Hunting]

Just because there are other idiots around doesn´t mean the company should be fine with hiring an idiot. That´s such a terrible terrible argument. Yeah, there are some idiots in charge of NHL teams. For example Jim Benning. And that idiot just swindled JR. So, do the maths there.