Peak Modano-Forsberg-Bure vs. Zetterberg-Malkin-Kane for a playoff run

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by authentic, Feb 5, 2019.

?

Who would you take for your teams top line?

Poll closed Feb 12, 2019.
  1. MFB

    55.5%
  2. ZMK

    44.5%
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  1. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    The reasoning is Kane won a ross by 17pts and a landslide hart. The simple question asked to you Bure fanboys was when did Bure come close to doing either of those things? You know he never did, so you spin it into "oh you clearly didn't watch him play!". Lol.
     
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  2. Caps8112

    Caps8112 Registered User

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    Kane was better then Bure. Bure was better at scoring goals, that's it, he contributed absolutely nothing else. If you saw him play live you would see that he hung out at the red line quite often. Doesn't show up on TV coverage.
     
  3. Kdotsection88

    Kdotsection88 Kaner? I hardly know her

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    Stop it with that drivel! Its obvious that if bure had a better team he would have been a better player than Kane. Because that totally makes sense. Kane only put up those numbers because of the talent around him!
     
  4. bathdog

    bathdog Registered User

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    No and nobody said that, but it's a factor nonetheless.

    You really are immune to acknowledging anything that doesn't support your stance.
     
  5. triggrman

    triggrman Registered User

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    and which one of these does MFB not have? Forsberg and Modano were great defensively.
     
  6. Mean Gene

    Mean Gene Haters gonna hate

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    It is a factor just like the fact that Forsberg was more rested than anybody else at the start of the playoffs.

    What do you want me to acknowledge? That Forsberg run was more impressive because you think so? Yes, Malkin scored a lot of pts off the PP, but that doesn’t make his run less impressive.
     
  7. Sayonara77

    Sayonara77 # Fire Benning/Wbrod

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    Oh look a young Hawks fan chiming in. How amusing.

    Nope, that may have some truth in his days with Florida, but he had no other choice considering they were no other else to score goals except him. Obviously you're using confirmation bias but clearly not followed his whole career.

    In his days in Vancouver, he was hardly a cherry picker in his first few seasons. He was adequate, and turned it up in the playoffs. He was fine in New york too.

    You're acting as if Kane contributed to anything else when he's weak in his own end. Bure is also a much more physical player, better defensively and actually was a solid penalty killer.
     
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  8. Sayonara77

    Sayonara77 # Fire Benning/Wbrod

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    You are posting drivel again without any actual context for that matter. You're acting as if Kane singlehandedly was the cause of his own major offensive output not factoring the fact that his linemate Panarin was fantastic as well and playing with solid enough support to help him out offensively. Better than anything Bure ever had ultimately. Having a better season doesn't make Kane being better than Bure was at his best. Besides, Bure had some very impressive regular seasons as I pointed out on his deak puck era output. The nonsense is shown from your lack of knowledge to how good Bure was.

    Yes, we should definitely factor offensive linemates, and overall team when compariing their offensive seasons because it should hold good enough bearing to know the overall outlook. Also the fact that they play in different eras. Would love to see Bure would fare now with less physicality, better equipment, no two line pass, etc. and you know with actual support to help him out. Perhaps try being open-minded.

    The poll is asking about the play off run for that matter, and peak Bure in 1994 (which you are likely way too young to even remember) was good as peak Kane was, arguably better. Some people find peak Bure ahead of Peak Kane. Get over it.

    I already answered it above. Funny how you Bure downplayers don't actually acknowledge the context of their respective output. Yes you're too young to know how good he was. Too bad. I'm well aware of your bias against Bure, this isn't the first time I've seen you downplay him.
     
  9. Mean Gene

    Mean Gene Haters gonna hate

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    Malkin has the best offensive Peak, Zetterberg was the better two way forward at their peaks or at worst equal to Modano and Forsberg and nobody in this group has the clutch factor more than Kane.
     
  10. triggrman

    triggrman Registered User

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    I don't think Zetterberg was nearly Forsberg's defensive level, Malkin's offense wasn't that much higher than if any than Forsberg, who played mostly in the clutch and grab deadpuck era, and Forsberg wasn't as clutch as Kane?
     
  11. newfy

    newfy Registered User

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    Ok heres the context and then I'm done with this.

    You talk about Bures dead puck offensive output like Kanes was in a high scoring season, it wasnt. Kanes season he had 15 more adjusted points than Bure in his best season.

    And yeah you keep saying that Panarin was good and that should somehow cancel out what Kane did. It doesnt....

    Panarin is/was good but Kane outscored him by ~30 points. He outscored second place Toews by 50, 3rd place by 60. He dominated his teammates by margins pretty close to Bure that year while not having a garbage team like Bure. I would also argue that Kane is a player that would prop up his teammates with his playmaking ability more than Bure. SO Panarin playing on his line and being 30 points out is even more impressive.

    I'm not even saying the 2 arent close at their best. But youre trying to argue against the most dominant Art Ross win in the last 20 years because of a player who was 30 points behind Kane. Its a horrible argument
     
  12. Caps8112

    Caps8112 Registered User

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    Not sure if referring to me, def not a hawks fan.

    And hahahaha to the 2nd part. He can be your fav player, doesnt make him better then kane outside of goal scoring and yes I saw his Vancouver days too
     
  13. Mean Gene

    Mean Gene Haters gonna hate

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    You’re entitled to your opinion.
     
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  14. GordieHowsUrBreath

    GordieHowsUrBreath Nostalgia... STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST

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    this time last year people on this forum were arguing Bure over Ovi, all because Ovi didn't play for a cup

    the 90's nostalgia is a major problem on this forum, it isn't healthy to live in the past and hate everything today
     
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  15. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    There’s also the opposite....thinking every player post lockout is superior in every and any way because anything before that was just beer league clown trash.

    Forsberg can be argued as better than Malkin. Modano with Zetterberg, and even Bure. One does not conquer the other in any way.

    I mean most of the posters here probably didn’t watch any of Forsberg, Modano, or Bure. That age gap causes a lot of bias opinions and overall ignorant statements.
     
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  16. Sayonara77

    Sayonara77 # Fire Benning/Wbrod

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    Kane's peak season was higher scoring wise than the dead puck era

    I didn't say it would cancel out what Kane did, I said that Kane did not single handedly accumulated that many points himself. I know how good Kane is. I have seen butcher my team for many play off rounds, and watched him live as well. Panarin helped out Kane by a good portion, which Kane admitted too and even said he misses him. Yes Kane was better playmaker than Bure, but Bure was a solid enough playmaker on his own right. Bure never received this type of support and being put in favourable positions than Kane has, and the fact is they play in different eras with different equipment, rules, much more physicality before lockout etc. So it's not exactly an easy comparision between the two. Would Bure generate a season that Kane had if he replaced Kane on the hawks, that's a what if scenario, but I can see it's a possibility. That's how elite and dominate Bure is. He made people stand on their seats every time he touched the puck.

    You missed the part where I said Kane had the better regular season than Bure ever did here "Having a better season doesn't make Kane being better than Bure was at his best"
    Ultimately, my point bowls down to I have Bure ahead of Kane due to being better at their overall best, and especially will pick him when it comes to the playoffs during their respective peaks.
    Also the fact I value is that Bure has better tools and attributes than Kane. Bure is better defensively, can PK, a lot more physical, more speed, arguably more skilled. Easily a better goal scorer than Kane.

    What I'm mostly arguing for the most part is that it's somehow is a crime to humanity to state that Peak Bure> Peak Kane based on the reception of one or two users in his thread. It certainly shows their age to those who react like that.


    I wasn't talking about you. I was referring to Kdotsection88. Your username and avatar give it a away that you're clearly a Caps fan.

    Nope. There are other attributes that Bure is better than Kane besides goal scoring. I stated them above.

    If you saw his Vancouver days, then you'll understand that your post isn't exacty accurate.
     
  17. bathdog

    bathdog Registered User

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    Agreed. Forsberg was rested for the playoffs. Was he in top physical form, did he have his game timing up to speed? Was his situation a positive or a negative? I don't know. Do you? Have you provided any kind of support for your claim?

    Did he deviate significantly from his norm? Was 1999 not nearly equivalent to 2002? I mean Malkin was generally poor (relatively speaking) when he missed time with injury, it seems clear injuries were a negative factor despite being more rested.

    I'm very open to listening to what you have to say.

    You clearly reply with nonsense to every claim to doesn't back your stance. Nobody is suggesting there is a linear relationship between TOI and pts scored, there is however likely to be a positive correlation of some sort, unless you think Forsberg would be skating circles doing drills for 4 entire games, or another 90 minutes at ES and 50 minutes at PP.

    Malkin's run IS impressive, it's obviously in contention for best run of the century, but it is arguable for sure. If winning the cup is a prerequisite then the only other skaters in the discussion as far as I'm concerned is Sakic 2001 and Zetterberg 2008.
     
  18. Mean Gene

    Mean Gene Haters gonna hate

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    You want me to acknowledge the fact that Malkin scored 46% of his points on the PP, which is a nice trivia fact, nothing more.

    Forsberg had a nice run, but didn’t play in the finals, where the competition is usually tougher. If Forsberg run is in contention for best run of the century, then why Crosby in 2018 or Ovechkin in 2009 aren’t? Even Halak in 2010 could be up there. Both scored at a crazy pace, but they were out in the 2nd round. IMO yes, to be considered the better run or even one of the bests, you at least have to play in the finals. other wise there is too much speculation. We don’t know how Forsberg performs in the finals, maybe he goes under a PPG, maybe over.
     
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  19. ricky0034

    ricky0034 Registered User

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    had no idea Bure was quite this highly regarded by some people

    and I thought Forsberg was overrated wow
     
  20. bathdog

    bathdog Registered User

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    Good point. I think you hit the jackpot here.

    I'm sure the 16th place Carolina bubble team was greater than the team that finished first overall with a 15pts gap to 2nd place team, and not uncommonly referred to as the most stacked team of modern hockey. A Carolina team that had little chance come finals time. As I said, you're unable to acknowledge anything that doesn't support your stance.
     
  21. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    To be fair, the “real” competition was in those WFC with the Stars, Ave, and Wings. I highly doubt Carolina or Buffalo would have been tougher competition....

    Not just that, but Forsberg lead his team in both series, having 7 points in 7 games in ‘99 and 8 points in 7 games in ‘02. The Avs took both eventual stanley cup champs to 7 games.

    Crosby and Ovechkin never lead the playoffs in scoring without making the finals. That’s what makes it different. Doesn’t mean theirs weren’t impressive, but the differences are obvious.
     
  22. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Except Malkin in 2009 didn't face Zetterberg, Rafalski and Lidstrom every shift like Crosby which allowed him to pull away easier in the finals. IIRC he also scored the bulk of his 8 points that series in the games before Datsyuk returned and matched up with him. Forsberg generally faced tougher defensive teams throughout the playoffs and tougher defensive matchups like Crosby did.
     
  23. GordieHowsUrBreath

    GordieHowsUrBreath Nostalgia... STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST

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    if the pens lost in the eastern final to ottawa in 2017 or carolina in 2009, who would've led the playoffs in scoring?

    also i don't understand why people think posters are young when they say today's players are better than the past, young people use social media not forums
     
  24. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    What’s your point? You have to create an alternative reality in order to have a point? Would they have? I mean if Ovechkin made it to the conference finals, maybe he would have led the playoffs in scoring....making “what ifs” and treating them like reality doesn’t work.

    Because most posters here are young. It’s a common fact. And with that comes a lot of post lockout flexing in terms of talent.....with little to no knowledge outside of YouTube in terms of any players 20, 30, 40, 50+ years ago.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  25. authentic

    authentic Registered User

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    Lol what, there are known posters here who weren't born when Forsberg was at his peak.
     
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