Peak Forsberg v Peak Yzerman

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yzerman. Without a doubt.

A shame he had his knee injury at such a young age. Still had a great career afterwards but could've been so much better.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Peak Yzerman, from 1986-87 scored 90 points and then fired off 6 straight 100+ point seasons and would have made it 7 if not for an injury in 1993-94. 5 of those 100+ point seasons he also scored 50+ goals. It's not like that 155 point season was a 1-hit wonder for him. He was dominant for a long stretch.

That's pretty good, my dudes.

Was close to equalling Lafleur's streak of 50 goal 100 point seasons too. Missed the goal mark one season. Also was pacing for a 60 goal 127 point season '88 before getting hurt.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Yzerman's peak was very strong offensively although their peak was in much different era's. If I could have a healthy forsberg for 82 games a season and 20 years, I would probably pick him as a player though.

 

[authentic]

I think Yzerman's peak season was more impressive than any of Forsberg's overall, but at the same time, while he didn't have a lot of help, he also played a ton of minutes. Forsberg's efficiency in '03 was extremely impressive both in terms of production and dominating GF%. It would be interesting to see what Forsberg would have done that year with minutes more in line with say, Naslund, who, as a Canucks fan, was clearly not on the same level. If we're voting for best seasons, I'd give Yzerman the edge, but if we're just looking at who was the best at their best, I think it's close, but I'd lean Forsberg. I think offensively it was close, but Forsberg was the more rounded player while at his offensive peak.

This post basically sums it up pretty well to those who think it's such a clearcut answer that Yzerman was better.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yzerman's peak was very strong offensively although their peak was in much different era's. If I could have a healthy forsberg for 82 games a season and 20 years, I would probably pick him as a player though.

A healthy Yzerman for 20 years and not slowed down by injuries would probably have 800 goals and 2000 points.

Even when Yzerman was in his 30's and converted his play from being more offensively oriented to becoming more of a two way player Yzerman was no slouch offensively.

Oh yeah, and Yzerman has a Selke trophy for best defensive forward when past his peak. Forsberg does not. People completely overrate Forsberg's two-way ability.

 

[authentic]

A healthy Yzerman for 20 years and not slowed down by injuries would probably have 800 goals and 2000 points.

Even when Yzerman was in his 30's and converted his play from being more offensively oriented to becoming more of a two way player Yzerman was no slouch offensively.

Oh yeah, and Yzerman has a Selke trophy for best defensive forward when past his peak. Forsberg does not. People completely overrate Forsberg's two-way ability.

He does have a runner up for the Selke and a 4th place finish the same season he was first in points. Yzerman was at his best defensively when he wasn't among the very top offensive players anymore. I just don't see how people pretend it's not close between them though, both were clearly amazing talents on a similar level for the most part.

 

[NyQuil]

He does have a runner up for the Selke and a 4th place finish the same season he was first in points. Yzerman was at his best defensively when he wasn't among the very top offensive players anymore. I just don't see how people pretend it's not close between them though, both were clearly amazing talents on a similar level for the most part.

This is the main reason why I picked Forsberg.

Yzerman was accused of cheating offensively when he was putting up the gaudy numbers, and adapted his game to be more defensively responsible as the numbers came down.

In fairness, the league changed fundamentally during his tenure, but I actually think that Forsberg's peak was the better all-around force.

And yes, I was alive and aware in the 1980s.

 

[amnesiac]

Yzerman. 155 points is 155 points...

I do think Forsberg was at his peak longer and more often though (just not many full seasons).

yeah, he won the Pearson, and was 3rd for the Hart, losing to that guy in Edmonton and that other centre in Pittsburgh.

Forsberg still had 106P (GPG avg was 5.08 vs 7.26 in 88-89), Hart, Art Ross, 4th for the Selke... he wasnt that far behind, imo.

 

[Albatros]

The closest non-Gretzky/Lemieux linemate was 45 points behind Yzerman at his best lol

Nicholls centered his own line most of the time. Talking about linemates, Gallant was 2nd All-Star that season with Gretzky and Kurri.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Yzerman's 88/89 was easily the better peak imo. He was the Red Wings.. 45 ES goals and a point total no one not named Lemieux or Gretzky has reached. Too bad he had that series of knee injuries (the first of which was actually before the 88/89 season I believe) and the herniated disc etc., it would have been interesting to see how he aged into a more complete player without all that slowing him down.

 

[SillyRabbit]

He does have a runner up for the Selke and a 4th place finish the same season he was first in points. Yzerman was at his best defensively when he wasn't among the very top offensive players anymore. I just don't see how people pretend it's not close between them though, both were clearly amazing talents on a similar level for the most part.

Glad someone said it.

Forsberg at his peak was a two way monster.

Yzerman only became solid defensively later in his career. When he put up those high point totals he was very poor defensively.

People who didn’t watch hockey back then assume that Yzerman was always good defensively. He wasn’t.

 

[authentic]

yeah, he won the Pearson, and was 3rd for the Hart, losing to that guy in Edmonton and that other centre in Pittsburgh.

Forsberg still had 102P (GPG avg was 5.08 vs 7.26 in 88-89), Hart, Art Ross, 4th for the Selke... he wasnt that far behind, imo.

106 points in 75 games*

 

[authentic]

Glad someone said it.

Forsberg at his peak was a two way monster.

Yzerman only became solid defensively later in his career. When he put up those high point totals he was very poor defensively.

People who didn’t watch hockey back then assume that Yzerman was always good defensively. He wasn’t.

He always played a crap ton of minutes even for back then as he was double shifted on the 4th line. Forsberg played under 20 minutes a game in 2002-03 and thoroughly dominated in points per game and 200ft of the ice.

 

[nashpreds]

Two-way player or not, Yzerman scored 65 goals and beat his next closest teammate in points by 62. Forsberg had an amazing season but this shouldn’t even be close.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Yzerman is just like Niedermayer. With Niedermayer, people pretend the level he was at from 04-10 was the level he was at for his entire career. With Yzerman, people pretend the great defensive game he played from 96-01 is how he played D his entire career. He was the definition of a one way player in his early years. Having said that, the gap he had over his team mates and any non Gretzky/Lemieux influenced player was ridiculous. No amount of "2 way" game is going to make up for that.

 

[centipede2233]

I don’t think there is a wrong answer. I kind of put sakic, forsberg, yzerman and federov all in the same breathe. Not necessarily in careers and accomplishments, just eye test. I saw an interview by a younger Gretzky on YouTube, and gretz was saying forsberg reminded him of trottier. Another thing about forsberg yet random, he didn’t play in the conference or Stanley cup final in the ray bourque cup win. Quite amazing that Colorado still won the cup against a stacked red wing team and brodeurs trap devils with no forsberg.

 

[jcs0218]

When at their very best offensively, Yzerman was better.

When at their very best defensively, Yzerman was better.

I also think Yzerman had better intangibles, even if some people think intangibles are a joke.

This would all seem to add up to Yzerman being the better player. Overall, and also at his peak.

 

[t0nedeff]

exactly.
anyone saying 155 is 155 had better be able to pick Maruk and Nilsson over anyone this century.

Yzerman’s season was incredible, though.

Except for the fact you know one guy played with Gretzky while the other didn't.

 

[tabness]

This poll brings back memories lol

I would always have arguments with my brother on our respective favorite players growing up (we were in Detroit so I wasn't the reactive contrarian in this situation lol )

Immature as I was, mostly I would just mock Forsberg's injury issues, or point to a hockey card of Forsberg which featured an unflattering picture where his mouth suggested some innuendo if you feel me lol. This was around the time where Forsberg was one of the best players in the league, probably the best, but I never felt that the Wings superstar centers were really behind the Avs guys by any notable degree, just a bit older and suppressed by the Wings system. Swap teams and their stats would also pretty much swap, and of course the awards recognition that usually follows.

Sometimes though, I would be more serious and just point out that Yzerman at his best was really being compared to Gretzky and Lemieux, either up there with them or just behind, and not players like Forsberg.

Some people are making evaluations of Yzerman's play back then, I don't really agree based on watching old games of his, but here's some contemporary sources on Yzerman's play in 1988-1989

 

[Ben White]

Except for the fact you know one guy played with Gretzky while the other didn't.

Nilsson playing with Gretzky?

 

[theslatcher]

I don’t think there is a wrong answer. I kind of put sakic, forsberg, yzerman and federov all in the same breathe. Not necessarily in careers and accomplishments, just eye test. I saw an interview by a younger Gretzky on YouTube, and gretz was saying forsberg reminded him of trottier. Another thing about forsberg yet random, he didn’t play in the conference or Stanley cup final in the ray bourque cup win. Quite amazing that Colorado still won the cup against a stacked red wing team and brodeurs trap devils with no forsberg.

Wings got bounced by the Kings in the first round 2001, so Colorado without Forsberg did not in fact win against a stacked red wings team.

 

[centipede2233]

Wings got bounced by the Kings in the first round 2001, so Colorado without Forsberg did not in fact win against a stacked red wings team.

Right you are, however the point I was making is forsberg didn’t play the back half of the Stanley cup run

 

[Albatros]

Nilsson playing with Gretzky?

He was on the same PP unit in March 1987 so yes, by HFBoards logic Nilsson was a product of Gretzky.

 

[Kaner9]

I say Stevie Y but I dunno that we ever saw a real peak Foppa due to health

 

[authentic]

This poll brings back memories lol

I would always have arguments with my brother on our respective favorite players growing up (we were in Detroit so I wasn't the reactive contrarian in this situation lol )

Immature as I was, mostly I would just mock Forsberg's injury issues, or point to a hockey card of Forsberg which featured an unflattering picture where his mouth suggested some innuendo if you feel me lol. This was around the time where Forsberg was one of the best players in the league, probably the best, but I never felt that the Wings superstar centers were really behind the Avs guys by any notable degree, just a bit older and suppressed by the Wings system. Swap teams and their stats would also pretty much swap, and of course the awards recognition that usually follows.

Sometimes though, I would be more serious and just point out that Yzerman at his best was really being compared to Gretzky and Lemieux, either up there with them or just behind, and not players like Forsberg.

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Some people are making evaluations of Yzerman's play back then, I don't really agree based on watching old games of his, but here's some contemporary sources on Yzerman's play in 1988-1989

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Lol I love how part of the justification for Yzerman being better than Lemieux is that Lemieux would have 300 points if he tried as hard as Yzerman who had 155. So 199 > 155 only reaching 66% of his potential?