PC Building Guide and Discussion #12

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
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their SSD is a several-years-old OCZ 64 GB

Old Sandforce SSDs (I think every old OCZ had a sandforce controller) had all sorts of bugs that made them not interact well with some drive controllers.
I have an old one that simply would not get detected on cold boot with my Z77 board under any circumstances. But it works fine in my second system and every laptop I've ever put it in.

If the SSD was working fine on the old system but now isn't, it could be one of those bugs.
 
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Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
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Old Sandforce SSDs (I think every old OCZ had a sandforce controller) had all sorts of bugs that made them not interact well with some drive controllers.
I have an old one that simply would not get detected on cold boot with my Z77 board under any circumstances. But it works fine in my second system and every laptop I've ever put it in.

If the SSD was working fine on the old system but now isn't, it could be one of those bugs.
Thanks - I know that's not "official" confirmation, but that helps me decide what direction to take.
 

mouser

Business of Hockey
Jul 13, 2006
29,285
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South Mountain
My friend and I played our first games of PUBG on PC together. Before we have only played on our Xbox X's. At 1080p getting between 80 and 120fps is such a vast difference it's mind boggling. We placed 18 with no kills. Didn't really come across anyone. Bad circle for us. I died in the blue without ever seeing anyone and my friend died from a random sniper in the distance while he was in another gun battle.

It makes the Xbox version feel unplayable. I'm still fumbling around with learning mouse and keyboard, but it's definitely getting better. Black Ops 1 bot mode ftw.

Haven’t gotten into PUBG, but have watched a lot of it on streams. Recall one of the top streamers Shroud saying frames per second is the biggest difference maker.
 

Dick Sledge

The Tactleneck
Feb 11, 2009
9,647
1,694
Haven’t gotten into PUBG, but have watched a lot of it on streams. Recall one of the top streamers Shroud saying frames per second is the biggest difference maker.

Shroud also basically being a pro and playing the game 6 to 10 hours a day helps as well. I'm not on that level. But your point is correct. Framerate is such a huge difference. I'm loving my pc, even if I still want to do a few upgrades.
 

guinness

Not Ingrid for now
Mar 11, 2002
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Missoula, Montana
www.missoulian.com
Bought an old MBP on ebay today, old enough I can upgrade the RAM and HD for an SSD, but current enough it will also support 10.14 next year. I think I just wanted a slightly newer Mac than what I've got laying around, but sure as heck wasn't going to spend the $2k or so for a brand new one.

I honestly don't think it will all that bad either, given that new Intel CPUs (other than 8th gen) aren't drastically different from each other.
 

Sined

The AndroidBugler!
Jun 25, 2007
7,129
25
So I want to buy a 500GB Samsung 970 EVO NVMe SSD. I currently have a 250GB Samsung 840 EVO.
Convince me otherwise!
 
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Commander Clueless

Hiya, hiya. Pleased to meetcha.
Sep 10, 2008
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So I want to buy a 500GB Samsung 970 EVO NVMe SSD. I currently have a 250GB Samsung 840 EVO.
Convince me otherwise!

I moved from an 850 Evo to a 960 Evo a while back. It was gloriously snappy. Absolutely love it.

Oh, wait, convince you NOT to buy it? Whoops...



...It makes no real difference in game load times that I've noticed. :laugh:
 

Kestrel

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Jan 30, 2005
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I have been stymied - after disconnecting the old SSD in my parents' computer, and installing Windows on an old hard drive, their computer continues to have problems. I assumed I must have been wrong about the SSD drive, so reconnect it and install Windows again - only I can't even get through an install because a single reboot on the SSD, and the motherboard goes straight to Nero Boot Loader. I reinstall on the hard drive, and pull a stick of RAM - not a fix, but an improvement. I pull the other stick, and steal a couple of sticks from my own computer - I have seen a brief graphical glitch on Chrome, but aside from that, the computer SEEMS to run a lot better - I have told my mom to go on a Plex watching binge to see how the computer handles it. I stuck the suspect sticks of RAM in my own computer, and have Memtest86 running - before I headed to work this morning, the sticks had gone through 4 passes without any errors showing up, but I've left it running, and will check again when I'm home from work,

I am trying hard to avoid the conclusion that it's the motherboard - and it is hard to nail it down when there is an old SSD, an old HD, and an old power supply in play at the moment. The HD while in the previous computer, honestly had not been used for anything for years, certainly not for an OS, so it's hard to know if it is a contributing factor or not. The SSD seems to almost certainly have been. The RAM - results so far seem to indicate it is, even if testing it doesn't confirm that. If they ARE healthy sticks, they are on the motherboard's compatibility list, and my cousin just recently set up a build with the same motherboard and same RAM, and it's working great. Maybe I need to double check settings in the BIOS where I have already confirmed that the BIOS was an issue previously?
 

Kestrel

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Jan 30, 2005
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Haha, and to add to my frustration level, a quick Google search shows that the Nero bootloader may have been from leaving the motherboard's CD in the DVD drive.
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
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Well, I called my mom to see how the computer has been doing - still doing its thing. At this point in time, I'm thinking something is screwy with the motherboard... anyone else?
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
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Now I'm conflicted. After one crash today, apparently the computer has been running flawlessly. Supposedly the new SSD will arrive tomorrow - if so, I may just install it, put the old RAM back in the system, reinstall Windows - making sure nobody turns the computer off in the middle of an install this time - and let my parents give it some solid use for a few days.
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
42,631
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Phoenix
Now I'm conflicted. After one crash today, apparently the computer has been running flawlessly. Supposedly the new SSD will arrive tomorrow - if so, I may just install it, put the old RAM back in the system, reinstall Windows - making sure nobody turns the computer off in the middle of an install this time - and let my parents give it some solid use for a few days.

Have you gone event viewer spelunking? the System log is probably the one to check though possibly application too.
Sort by level and look for the red/yellow messages.

That's where I found my 3770k was throwing CRC errors even after it was stable in prime.
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
5,814
129
Have you gone event viewer spelunking? the System log is probably the one to check though possibly application too.
Sort by level and look for the red/yellow messages.

That's where I found my 3770k was throwing CRC errors even after it was stable in prime.
Thanks for the suggestion - I'll do that this weekend.
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
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@SniperHF I'm not very familiar with the event viewer, and I should probably have another, more detailed look, but all I saw was an amazing number of NDIS and Network Adaptor messages - with a heavy emphasis on the latter. We're talking thousands of messages. I tried scrolling, kind of futile with that many messages, but that's all I saw. Would you think that enough to hang a system from time to time? I'd hate to feel like I *HAD* to buy a network adaptor when I specifially bought a motherboard with one, but if the fix was as easy as that, that wouldn't cost me much more than shipping for an RMA, and would likely net me a better adaptor in the meantime. Still... where there's one bad part, if that is indeed the case, I'm pretty leery.
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
42,631
21,042
Phoenix
@SniperHF I'm not very familiar with the event viewer, and I should probably have another, more detailed look, but all I saw was an amazing number of NDIS and Network Adaptor messages - with a heavy emphasis on the latter. We're talking thousands of messages. I tried scrolling, kind of futile with that many messages, but that's all I saw. Would you think that enough to hang a system from time to time? I'd hate to feel like I *HAD* to buy a network adaptor when I specifially bought a motherboard with one, but if the fix was as easy as that, that wouldn't cost me much more than shipping for an RMA, and would likely net me a better adaptor in the meantime. Still... where there's one bad part, if that is indeed the case, I'm pretty leery.

Did you check the timestamps? And are they actually errors or just labeled informational?
You might also uninstall the driver and do the opposite of what you have now, meaning if you let Windows pick the driver go find one or if you are using a downloaded driver try whatever Windows gives you.
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
5,814
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Did you check the timestamps? And are they actually errors or just labeled informational?
You might also uninstall the driver and do the opposite of what you have now, meaning if you let Windows pick the driver go find one or if you are using a downloaded driver try whatever Windows gives you.
I didn't look too closely at the time stamps, but I did notice that a number of them were definitely right on top of each other - ie, we're not talking one at 8:30, one at 8:31, and one at 8:32 - we're talking error after error after error at 8:30. A large number of them were red stamped.

To add to this - I saw the connection swing quite wildly last night - from 325 Mbps at the high end to 1 or 2 Mbps at the low end.
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
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Well... it's too early to declare victory yet... but I'm tentatively excited - and as confused as hell. So, I installed the new SSD in my parents' computer, and put the original RAM back in. Things started well with Windows installing a helluva lot quicker on the new SSD than it did on either the hard drive or old SSD, despite being installed with just a USB 2.0 stick.

I got a little nervous when the Windows install asked me to enter a network password, but then chose to reboot - I'm still confused by it, but Windows at least actually CHOSE to do a controlled reboot, as opposed to crashing - it's possible I hit the power button on the air mouse I was using, but I really don't think so.

Wifi still isn't wonderfully strong, but it was sitting at a consistent 32 Mbps instead of wildly ranging from 325 to 1 Mbps.

The computer APPEARS to be running smoothly, but I'm still confused as to how BOTH the old SSD and the hard drive could have made the computer operate so funkily. I guess it's possible that the hard drive is failing and horribly glitchy, and it was just never noticed because it didn't have anything running on it... and the SSD drive seems to be shoddy too - but that's a lot of strange coincidence for me.

Anyhow, I'm hoping for a win and to avoid an RMA here.
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
5,814
129
So... unsurprisingly, my parents computer is still having lock-up problems. There are a few other errors that show up in Event Viewer, but the messages are overwhelmingly related to the wifi device - I don't remember the precise messaging at the moment, but do remember that they indicated that the driver restarted the device repeatedly - it would error out 2 or 3 times per second, every second for minutes at a time. I noticed that trying to download something on Steam while watching something on Plex was a way to crash Windows within 10 to 20 minutes - it could still crash just watching Plex, but could go for a few hours without doing so.

So - I'm debating. Buy a wifi card, and disable the integrated Intel adaptor? Or RMA the board? Thoughts, opinions, hints, allegations, and things left unsaid?
 

LarryFisherman

o̯̘̍͋̀͌̂͒͋͋ͯ̿ͯͦ̈́ͬ͒̚̚
May 9, 2013
6,374
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Arvada, CO
So... unsurprisingly, my parents computer is still having lock-up problems. There are a few other errors that show up in Event Viewer, but the messages are overwhelmingly related to the wifi device - I don't remember the precise messaging at the moment, but do remember that they indicated that the driver restarted the device repeatedly - it would error out 2 or 3 times per second, every second for minutes at a time. I noticed that trying to download something on Steam while watching something on Plex was a way to crash Windows within 10 to 20 minutes - it could still crash just watching Plex, but could go for a few hours without doing so.

So - I'm debating. Buy a wifi card, and disable the integrated Intel adaptor? Or RMA the board? Thoughts, opinions, hints, allegations, and things left unsaid?

Is the integrated Intel device just sitting in an m.2 slot? If so, I would definitely replace with something new. If it's soldered on, that's annoying since you can only kill it via software. In that event I'd just grab an internal pci-e or a nice ac or an or whatever the hell the latest standard is in USB flavor and move along.

I've noticed big gains going to an aftermarket wifi adapter, especially on my old mac pros and various windows laptops that were kind enough to just use a pci-e m.2 device.
 

LarryFisherman

o̯̘̍͋̀͌̂͒͋͋ͯ̿ͯͦ̈́ͬ͒̚̚
May 9, 2013
6,374
2,658
Arvada, CO
So the nvidia GTX 1180 card is finally coming out at the end of the month. They say nvidia held off on the release because they had a large stock of unsold GTX 1080s? Strange, I thought the prices were high because the bitcoin miners were eating them up.

GTX 1180 release date, price, and specs: Everything we know about Nvidia's next GPU | PC Gamer

Nvidia's GTX 1180 GPU will launch ahead of Gamescom on 20 August | TheINQUIRER

I think they're actually skipping the rest of the 10's and going with the 20xx series.

NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 2080 and 2070 Based On Ampere GA104 GPU Receive ECC Certification

Stuff is so expensive - it's a depressing time to be a pcmasterrace. I'm excited to see some of the improvments. Maybe I can finally spring for a 1080 :laugh:
 

Kestrel

Registered User
Jan 30, 2005
5,814
129
Is the integrated Intel device just sitting in an m.2 slot? If so, I would definitely replace with something new. If it's soldered on, that's annoying since you can only kill it via software. In that event I'd just grab an internal pci-e or a nice ac or an or whatever the hell the latest standard is in USB flavor and move along.

I've noticed big gains going to an aftermarket wifi adapter, especially on my old mac pros and various windows laptops that were kind enough to just use a pci-e m.2 device.
The big concern is that it appears that the faulty adaptor keeps locking up and crashing Windows. I believe it's soldered on, but I'd have to check, it could be an m.2 device.

I can RMA it, but there's a couple of reasons I'm hesitant to. Between Amazon sending a wrong processor and the motherboard having its issues, I've been dealing with this computer for 2 weeks now, and I just want to be done with it. I'm also concerned that if NewEgg doesn't take a close look, it will appear to be a fully functional motherboard, and I'll get dinged with a restocking fee.

If I was confident that an add-on card would resolve the issue, I'd go that route for sure. I had a decent USB adaptor - if I can find it, and it's strong enough to work on the home network, I can maybe try the idea out, and see if disabling the Intel device let's the computer run properly.
 

LarryFisherman

o̯̘̍͋̀͌̂͒͋͋ͯ̿ͯͦ̈́ͬ͒̚̚
May 9, 2013
6,374
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Arvada, CO
The big concern is that it appears that the faulty adaptor keeps locking up and crashing Windows. I believe it's soldered on, but I'd have to check, it could be an m.2 device.

I can RMA it, but there's a couple of reasons I'm hesitant to. Between Amazon sending a wrong processor and the motherboard having its issues, I've been dealing with this computer for 2 weeks now, and I just want to be done with it. I'm also concerned that if NewEgg doesn't take a close look, it will appear to be a fully functional motherboard, and I'll get dinged with a restocking fee.

If I was confident that an add-on card would resolve the issue, I'd go that route for sure. I had a decent USB adaptor - if I can find it, and it's strong enough to work on the home network, I can maybe try the idea out, and see if disabling the Intel device let's the computer run properly.

Yup, I would nav to device manager and just disable it, and see if a third party option would resolve (ie test with a usb adapter).

If ya open that bish up and the Intel chip is soldered on - then close up that panel and leave it to the usb device.

If, though, for some stroke of genius, it's an m.2 card, they can be had pretty cheap, and I would definitely run that route if possible. For me, USB slots are at a premium, and I like to kill clutter when possible. What board is it? Sorry if I'm asking dupe q's, I didn't scroll very far up. I'm lazy.
 

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