Pawtucket Red Sox moving to Worcester

[garnetpalmetto]

So what's going on with Lowell that would make the Boston Redsox pull out in favor of buying Batavia and parking them in Pawtucket? Near as I could tell everyone was happy with the arrangement. It makes no sense to me that Boston would ruin a good situation in Lowell just to hand an already angry fanbase in Pawtucket what they would see as an inferior product going from full season AAA to short season low A.

The only way I see this working for Lowell is if they get a full season single A team in return. So what's the affiliation picture look like for the advanced A Salem Red Sox in the Carolina League or the standard A Greenville Drive of the South Atlantic League?

I know distance is an issue, but if just a couple teams shift north in a couple years it suddenly becomes feasible. There are already teams in New Jersey anyway.

I doubt it'd be feasible even if "a couple teams" shift north. Let's start with the South Atlantic League. The first problem you have is that the Drive aren't owned by the Red Sox, they're just affiliated with them and that affiliation is on the book until 2020. So, Boston would have to purchase an extant South Atlantic League team. The Drive's owners would likely have no interest in selling, especially given that the team is one of the best attended and well-regarded in the League. The only South Atlantic League team really in precarious shape with regards to its stadium situation are the Hagerstown Suns. The Suns play in the SAL's North Division, which currently consists of teams in Charleston, WV; Greensboro, NC; Hagerstown, MD; Hickory, NC; Kannapolis, NC; Lakewood, NJ; and Salisbury, MD. So let's say you have the Red Sox purchase the Suns and relocate them to Pawtucket - that would quite likely stretch that division out a bit too far. At present, the furthest city pair in the division is Hickory-Lakewood at 630 miles. Replace Hagerstown with Pawtucket and over half the division now has a further drive than that and the furthest pairing becomes Hickory-Pawtucket at 828 miles.

As for the Carolina League, while the Red Sox do own Salem and could relocate them at a whim, you'd again run into the issue of distance, except even worse. Salem's in the Northern Division along with Frederick, MD; Lynchburg, VA; Wilmington, DE; and Woodbridge, VA. The Woodbridge team, the Potomac Nationals, have announced their intention to relocate to Fredericksburg, VA, for the 2020 season so let's include that as the city for computational purposes. At present, the furthest city pair in the division is Salem-Wilmington at 347 miles. Replace Salem with Pawtucket and all but one team in the division now has a further drive than that and the furthest pairing becomes Lynchburg-Pawtucket at nearly 600 miles.

In both of these cases we aren't looking at what it would do for the teams in the *other* division that still would have to travel to Pawtucket. I can imagine, for instance, the Charleston RiverDogs or the Myrtle Beach Pelicans not being particularly thrilled with a bus trip to Pawtucket.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I doubt it'd be feasible even if "a couple teams" shift north. Let's start with the South Atlantic League. The first problem you have is that the Drive aren't owned by the Red Sox, they're just affiliated with them and that affiliation is on the book until 2020. So, Boston would have to purchase an extant South Atlantic League team. The Drive's owners would likely have no interest in selling, especially given that the team is one of the best attended and well-regarded in the League. The only South Atlantic League team really in precarious shape with regards to its stadium situation are the Hagerstown Suns. The Suns play in the SAL's North Division, which currently consists of teams in Charleston, WV; Greensboro, NC; Hagerstown, MD; Hickory, NC; Kannapolis, NC; Lakewood, NJ; and Salisbury, MD. So let's say you have the Red Sox purchase the Suns and relocate them to Pawtucket - that would quite likely stretch that division out a bit too far. At present, the furthest city pair in the division is Hickory-Lakewood at 630 miles. Replace Hagerstown with Pawtucket and over half the division now has a further drive than that and the furthest pairing becomes Hickory-Pawtucket at 828 miles.

As for the Carolina League, while the Red Sox do own Salem and could relocate them at a whim, you'd again run into the issue of distance, except even worse. Salem's in the Northern Division along with Frederick, MD; Lynchburg, VA; Wilmington, DE; and Woodbridge, VA. The Woodbridge team, the Potomac Nationals, have announced their intention to relocate to Fredericksburg, VA, for the 2020 season so let's include that as the city for computational purposes. At present, the furthest city pair in the division is Salem-Wilmington at 347 miles. Replace Salem with Pawtucket and all but one team in the division now has a further drive than that and the furthest pairing becomes Lynchburg-Pawtucket at nearly 600 miles.

In both of these cases we aren't looking at what it would do for the teams in the *other* division that still would have to travel to Pawtucket. I can imagine, for instance, the Charleston RiverDogs or the Myrtle Beach Pelicans not being particularly thrilled with a bus trip to Pawtucket.

McCoy has a lot of issues Alex Speier: Here’s how the PawSox’ move to Worcester helps their farm system - The Boston Globe

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Worcester Red Sox partner with Atlas Distributing

 

[garnetpalmetto]

McCoy has a lot of issues Alex Speier: Here’s how the PawSox’ move to Worcester helps their farm system - The Boston Globe

I know that and we all know that. Believe it or not this came up in the MiLB thread before this separate thread was started. I was addressing @offkilter's thought that Pawtucket could be a Carolina League or South Atlantic League market and, while I did use McCoy's location as the Pawtucket "destination" when I mapped out distances, it wouldn't change the math that greatly.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I know that and we all know that. Believe it or not this came up in the MiLB thread before this separate thread was started. I was addressing @offkilter's thought that Pawtucket could be a Carolina League or South Atlantic League market and, while I did use McCoy's location as the Pawtucket "destination" when I mapped out distances, it wouldn't change the math that greatly.

The Eastern league would make more sense for any team to move to southern New England than any single a league if the flying squirrels Move back to the northeast any Progress they make on a replacement for the diamond ballpark can be left to the Nats triple a team which is currently stuck in California

 

[garnetpalmetto]

The Eastern league would make more sense for any team to move to southern New England than any single a league if the flying squirrels Move back to the northeast any Progress they make on a replacement for the diamond ballpark can be left to the Nats triple a team which is currently stuck in California

Agreed there - if nothing ends up coming of the plan to build a new park on the property currently housing Virginia's state alcohol warehouse, I can imagine the team might take a long look at going back to New England, but there's no doubt that RI makes more sense for the EL and New York-Penn League than it does for the Carolina or Sally League.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Worcester Redevelopment signs $889K deal with ballpark architect firm D'Agostino Izzo Quirk

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Things are fluid right now but I can not see the Pawsox staying at McCoy for 2 years as a lame duck. Most of my RI friends are heartbroken about losing the team but they are also angry.

Future of McCoy Stadium

Mark Patinkin: Logistics and economics cloud McCoy Stadium's future

the owner of the fisher cats wants to put a team at McCoy

 

[Fenway]

Future of McCoy Stadium

Mark Patinkin: Logistics and economics cloud McCoy Stadium's future

the owner of the fisher cats wants to put a team at McCoy

MiLB can't be thrilled about losing the Providence market and while attendance has dropped the past few years that was partly because of bad spring weather and the uncertainty of the team staying.

I think the most likely option is Batavia moving to Pawtucket and the Red Sox switching their affiliation from Lowell. The Red Sox really dislike the new owners of the Spinners after they brought back a GM they told Drew Weber to get rid of.

Can the Spinners survive without the Red Sox affiliation -

 

[Centrum Hockey]

MiLB can't be thrilled about losing the Providence market and while attendance has dropped the past few years that was partly because of bad spring weather and the uncertainty of the team staying.

View attachment 158479

I think the most likely option is Batavia moving to Pawtucket and the Red Sox switching their affiliation from Lowell. The Red Sox really dislike the new owners of the Spinners after they brought back a GM they told Drew Weber to get rid of.

Can the Spinners survive without the Red Sox affiliation -

T Shirts saying the road to Marlins Park Begins here would probably be a tough sell in the Merrimack valley
Lowell Spinners Road to Fenway Tee

 

[Fenway]

T Shirts saying the road to Marlins Park Begins here would probably be a tough sell in the Merrimack valley
Lowell Spinners Road to Fenway Tee

BUT - The Spinners are entering the second generation of fans who are now bringing their kids to the games. I think their brand is solid enough to survive losing the Red Sox affiliation.

I do believe Lucchino wanted to stay in Rhode Island but Worcester just offered a far better deal than RI was willing to do.

There is a LOT of resentment in RI that Curt Schilling remains living in his mansion in Medfield, a 30-minute drive from Pawtucket.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

BUT - The Spinners are entering the second generation of fans who are now bringing their kids to the games. I think their brand is solid enough to survive losing the Red Sox affiliation.

I do believe Lucchino wanted to stay in Rhode Island but Worcester just offered a far better deal than RI was willing to do.

There is a LOT of resentment in RI that Curt Schilling remains living in his mansion in Medfield, a 30-minute drive from Pawtucket.

Red Sox are taking suggestions for renaming the PawSox - The Boston Globe
i could be wrong but it seems like Larry is setting up the Worcester triple a team to be treated as an expansion team like the Shuckers in AA
Biloxi Shuckers - Wikipedia
and for the single a team most likely the Muckdogs to be treated as continuation of the Pawsox with Worcester taking none of their history

 

[garnetpalmetto]

T Shirts saying the road to Marlins Park Begins here would probably be a tough sell in the Merrimack valley
Lowell Spinners Road to Fenway Tee

What do the Marlins have to do with this? While they *have* historically had an affiliate in the New York-Penn League (Erie in 1992, Elmira from 1993 to 1995, Utica from 1996 to 2001, Jamestown from 2002 until 2012 and Batavia since then), there's no guarantee they'd necessarily want to stay there, especially given the new ownership.

Red Sox are taking suggestions for renaming the PawSox - The Boston Globe
i could be wrong but it seems like Larry is setting up the Worcester triple a team to be treated as an expansion team like the Shuckers in AA
Biloxi Shuckers - Wikipedia
and for the single a team most likely the Muckdogs to be treated as continuation of the Pawsox with Worcester taking none of their history

That's fairly common in Minor League Baseball. Even though the Myrtle Beach Pelicans, for instance, were originally the Durham Bulls franchise, they don't claim any of Durham's history/records as a High-A squad. Similarly the Greenville Drive don't claim any of the franchise history of the Capital City Bombers (even though the Drive kept the Bombers name their first year in Greenville).

 

[Centrum Hockey]

What do the Marlins have to do with this? While they *have* historically had an affiliate in the New York-Penn League (Erie in 1992, Elmira from 1993 to 1995, Utica from 1996 to 2001, Jamestown from 2002 until 2012 and Batavia since then), there's no guarantee they'd necessarily want to stay there, especially given the new ownership.



That's fairly common in Minor League Baseball. Even though the Myrtle Beach Pelicans, for instance, were originally the Durham Bulls franchise, they don't claim any of Durham's history/records as a High-A squad. Similarly the Greenville Drive don't claim any of the franchise history of the Capital City Bombers (even though the Drive kept the Bombers name their first year in Greenville).

I just used the Marlins as an example there There is nothing to suggest that they whould be Lowell’s next partner if the Red Sox pulled out

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Always loved going to Paw Sox games in the 90's when I was visiting family in Seekonk.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

@Fenway do the redsox have a place for a single a team to play in 2020 Lowell contract is up next year and most are for two years

 

[Fenway]

@Fenway do the redsox have a place for a single a team to play in 2020 Lowell contract is up next year and most are for two years

Brockton could be a placeholder for one year

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Brockton could be a placeholder for one year

If the single a move happens they should do it in 2020 and move the triple a team to temp parks 2 lame duck years is not great for business for any team

 

[Fenway]

If the single a move happens they should do it in 2020 and move the triple a team to temp parks 2 lame duck years is not great for business for any team

MiLB wants something in the Providence market.

The Pawsox always has excellent corportate support but that has evaporiated in the past 3 years.

If Jim Skeffington hadn't dropped dead 3 years ago the stadium in Providence would have happened. He knew how to play the tribal forces that are Rhode Island. He also would have been able to keep Lucchinio muzzled.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/bo...wner-jim-skeffington-dies-heart-attack?page=1

There is no denying how much damage Curt Schilling caused with RI politicans and taxpayers. The stadium plan in Pawtucket would have brought that city back from the grave and created year round perks including a commuter rail station conncting to the Providence Airport and Boston.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

MiLB wants something in the Providence market.

The Pawsox always has excellent corportate support but that has evaporiated in the past 3 years.

If Jim Skeffington hadn't dropped dead 3 years ago the stadium in Providence would have happened. He knew how to play the tribal forces that are Rhode Island. He also would have been able to keep Lucchinio muzzled.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/bo...wner-jim-skeffington-dies-heart-attack?page=1

There is no denying how much damage Curt Schilling caused with RI politicans and taxpayers. The stadium plan in Pawtucket would have brought that city back from the grave and created year round perks including a commuter rail station conncting to the Providence Airport and Boston.







View attachment 159553

The Worcester Boston Line goes directly to Fenway park personal/players/fans could see a Worcester day game and a Boston night game in the same day Framingham/Worcester Line | Commuter Rail | MBTA

 

[Centrum Hockey]

'We have an opportunity to do something really special': Worcester Red Sox plan to make concessions at Polar Park reflective of city
’Our responsibility is to fit into your city;’ Larry Lucchino and PawSox brass are studying Worcester to design Polar Park

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

...

"Worcester Red Sox plan to make concessions at Polar Park reflective of city"

sweet, so meals are gonna come with a side of meth?

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

BUT - The Spinners are entering the second generation of fans who are now bringing their kids to the games. I think their brand is solid enough to survive losing the Red Sox affiliation.

I do believe Lucchino wanted to stay in Rhode Island but Worcester just offered a far better deal than RI was willing to do.

There is a LOT of resentment in RI that Curt Schilling remains living in his mansion in Medfield, a 30-minute drive from Pawtucket.

Wait - the Spinners are leaving the Sox?

 

[Centrum Hockey]

"Worcester Red Sox plan to make concessions at Polar Park reflective of city"

sweet, so meals are gonna come with a side of meth?

Have you been to Worcester in the past five years your view of the city seems like its from the late 90s. you do you know that Pawtucket is not some paradise Hasbro is thinking of leaving what would that do to the economy State leaders pledge fight to keep Hasbro in R.I. — and Pawtucket 'if we could'

 

[Fenway]

"Worcester Red Sox plan to make concessions at Polar Park reflective of city"

sweet, so meals are gonna come with a side of meth?

There is some seedy part of Worcester but there are also many very nice areas.

Pawtucket is in rough shape. The only hospital in the city closed earlier this year.