Player Discussion Pavel Buchnevich: Part VI

[SnowblindNYR]

The guy is having the best season of his career and has arguably been our second best forward. Yet all this thread is about is how we can't keep him. Not one positive thing in here.

 

[kovazub94]

Neither Kakko nor Lafreniere have earned a significant payday yet. Barring a huge season next year, Kakko is unlikely to cost much on his next contract. Laf is 2 years away. There's no reason we can't re-sign Buchnevich and explore trading him if and when the money actually gets tight. The only caveat there is trade protection. If Buch wants an NMC starting in year 2 of the deal and we can't get him signed without it, then we may have to trade him sooner rather than later. But if he has no/limited trade protection, then we can keep him for as long as we can afford him. Maybe we can keep him long enough that other players' (Kreider, Trouba) trade protection runs out, and we can move them instead.

This! And I don’t understand why it needs to be repeated so many times!

BTW, put Chytil also in this group with Kakko who likely won’t be too expensive on his next contract.

 

[Sayba]

The guy is having the best season of his career and has arguably been our second best forward. Yes all this thread is about is how we can't keep him. Not one positive thing in here.

We have a salary cap, people aren't being negative by pointing that out along with the young depth behind him.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

We have a salary cap, people aren't being negative by pointing that out along with the young depth behind him.

We can't enjoy the guy having a breakout season we have to look at the negatives?

 

[GAGLine]

We have a salary cap, people aren't being negative by pointing that out along with the young depth behind him.

We have a salary cap that we will be 27 mil under, before buying out DeAngelo or trading Strome. What's the problem?

 

[True Blue]

We have a salary cap, people aren't being negative by pointing that out along with the young depth behind him.

Yes, there is a salary cap. Yes there are ways go negotiate it.

WHO is behind him? Name someone that is ready to be a 60 point forward that kills penalties as well. Even if you throw out Kakko (who is not ready to replace him.....YET), name someone that is ready to assume a top-6 role.

 

[CupSeeker]

Yes, there is a salary cap. Yes there are ways go negotiate it.

WHO is behind him? Name someone that is ready to be a 60 point forward that kills penalties as well. Even if you throw out Kakko (who is not ready to replace him.....YET), name someone that is ready to assume a top-6 role.

There is no one which is why all this "move Buch" stuff will not make us a better team during the best years of Zib and Bread and we need to win at that time.

 

[True Blue]

There is no one which is why all this "move Buch" stuff will not make us a better team during the best years of Zib and Bread and we need to win at that time.

I am not even saying that Buchnevich is not moved, but this notion that there are prospects lining up behind him to grab his spot, is completely ludicrous.

 

[Sayba]

Yes, there is a salary cap. Yes there are ways go negotiate it.

WHO is behind him? Name someone that is ready to be a 60 point forward that kills penalties as well. Even if you throw out Kakko (who is not ready to replace him.....YET), name someone that is ready to assume a top-6 role.

They won't be ready if they aren't given the chance. Buch was given the chance before he was a legit top 6.

 

[will1066]

Phone battery at 89% as im reading this thread

 

[kovazub94]

They won't be ready if they aren't given the chance. Buch was given the chance before he was a legit top 6.

Given a chance? That geekie mofo that he had been when he got here EARNED his chance through being a stand-out on bottom lines, being a healthy scratch and being benched for the whole periods because he wasn't doing what being asked of him.

Who's not "given a chance" in your opinion?

 

[GAGLine]

They won't be ready if they aren't given the chance. Buch was given the chance before he was a legit top 6.

That is not an accurate statement. Buchnevich is getting the 3rd most ice time per game among forwards this year. Last year, it was 5th most. The year before that, it was 9th most. So his time has increased as he has improved and proven that he is ready for more responsibility.

Players don't need top 6 minutes to develop into a top 6 player. How about we first let them produce at a 3rd line level, playing 3rd line minutes, before we worry about giving them more ice item.

Opportunities will arise, as they always do, due to injuries or poor performance. When those opportunities come about, it will be incumbent upon them to seize them and show that they are ready to take the next step. When that happens, when they PROVE that they are ready to produce at a top 6 level, moves will be made to accommodate them. Making those moves now and thrusting them into a role for which they aren't ready doesn't help them or the team.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I am not even saying that Buchnevich is not moved, but this notion that there are prospects lining up behind him to grab his spot, is completely ludicrous.

I mean there are, Kakko and Kravtsov. Plus some more long shot guys like Pajuniemi Whether they are good enough to replace him as soon as next season remains doubtful. But it has to be a consideration. We of course can solve the whole issue by trading those guys for Eichel, and keep Buch.

 

[Sayba]

That is not an accurate statement. Buchnevich is getting the 3rd most ice time per game among forwards this year. Last year, it was 5th most. The year before that, it was 9th most. So his time has increased as he has improved and proven that he is ready for more responsibility.

Players don't need top 6 minutes to develop into a top 6 player. How about we first let them produce at a 3rd line level, playing 3rd line minutes, before we worry about giving them more ice item.

Opportunities will arise, as they always do, due to injuries or poor performance. When those opportunities come about, it will be incumbent upon them to seize them and show that they are ready to take the next step. When that happens, when they PROVE that they are ready to produce at a top 6 level, moves will be made to accommodate them. Making those moves now and thrusting them into a role for which they aren't ready doesn't help them or the team.

He doesn't play PP 1 and never killed penalties until this year which isn't going to help with those stats. He is also 25 years old now, what will Kaako, Laf and Kravtsov look like at 25?

I'm not trying to argue he is a bad player or he isn't deserving of a contract. I'm simply looking at our depth at wing, our current big contracts at wing and trying to be realistic on how to go forward to make things work in a cap league where the cap is probably not going up for awhile.

 

[True Blue]

They won't be ready if they aren't given the chance. Buch was given the chance before he was a legit top 6.

He was not given a chance by being gifted a top-6 spot. There were lots of 4th line, 3rd line and frankly complete scratches. I hear zero knocking of any one pushing him.

 

[duhmetreE]

He was not given a chance by being gifted a top-6 spot. There were lots of 4th line, 3rd line and frankly complete scratches. I hear zero knocking of any one pushing him.

how good is your hearing?

 

[True Blue]

I mean there are, Kakko and Kravtsov. Plus some more long shot guys like Pajuniemi Whether they are good enough to replace him as soon as next season remains doubtful. But it has to be a consideration. We of course can solve the whole issue by trading those guys for Eichel, and keep Buch.

Kakko is going to be fantastic. He is not there yet. Buchnevich is a 60 point RW. For all of the railing that you have been doing about Lafreniere and Kakko, one would think that you would not be the one annointing Kakko as top line ready.

Kravstov? Can the kid play a second of NHL time first? Changes are if all works perfectly, Kravstov can approach Buchnevich's level in another 3 years or so.

Pajuniemi? Really? No he is not a consideration. More of a fantasy.

Eichel is a completely different kettle of fish as far as a discussion goes.

 

[GAGLine]

He doesn't play PP 1 and never killed penalties until this year which isn't going to help with those stats. He is also 25 years old now, what will Kaako, Laf and Kravtsov look like at 25?

I'm not trying to argue he is a bad player or he isn't deserving of a contract. I'm simply looking at our depth at wing, our current big contracts at wing and trying to be realistic on how to go forward to make things work in a cap league where the cap is probably not going up for awhile.

Even if you look only at his EV TOI/G, he was 7th among forwards in 2018-19, 3rd last year, and 4th this year (ironically :11 behind Kakko and :36 ahead of Laf).

Buch is 25, but he was a 3rd round pick who is in his 5th NHL season. When Kakko and Laf are in their 5th NHL season, they will be 23 and just hitting their prime. I would also hope for them to progress more quickly due to their higher ceiling, but it doesn't always work out that way.

Kakko and Laf will get there. We just need to be patient.

 

[True Blue]

how good is your hearing?

Pretty damn good. There is not a soul on the Rangers or in their system that is pushing Buchnevich for anything.

 

[romba]

Our 'young depth' can't score for shit and we're moving our PPGer for them already. Wonderful. EA SPORTS GMing, just make sure to save on a new file before pulling the trigger trading Buch.

Buch overcame heavy adversity in his youth. His head coach laughed with the media (and HFNYR) at his scrawny 'euro' body and at him getting hurt as a rookie, and he was put on the 4th line when he returned. I don't think Buch even complained to the media about it (is that even allowed?!?) But he still made shit happen whenever he was on the ice and worked on his flaws to get where he is today.

All you guys wanting to trade him, if he were a first rounder you'd all be trolling on the main boards asking if Buch is still a 3rd line winger like you did with Zib last year

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Kakko is going to be fantastic. He is not there yet. Buchnevich is a 60 point RW. For all of the railing that you have been doing about Lafreniere and Kakko, one would think that you would not be the one annointing Kakko as top line ready.

Kravstov? Can the kid play a second of NHL time first? Changes are if all works perfectly, Kravstov can approach Buchnevich's level in another 3 years or so.

Pajuniemi? Really? No he is not a consideration. More of a fantasy.

Eichel is a completely different kettle of fish as far as a discussion goes.

not really, because in the end it comes down to the allocation of cap space and team build. We can't keep all these wingers.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Our 'young depth' can't score for shit and we're moving our PPGer for them already. Wonderful. EA SPORTS GMing, just make sure to save on a new file before pulling the trigger trading Buch.

Buch overcame heavy adversity in his youth. His head coach laughed with the media (and HFNYR) at his scrawny 'euro' body and at him getting hurt as a rookie, and he was put on the 4th line when he returned. I don't think Buch even complained to the media about it (is that even allowed?!?) But he still made shit happen whenever he was on the ice and worked on his flaws to get where he is today.

All you guys wanting to trade him, if he were a first rounder you'd all be trolling on the main boards asking if Buch is still a 3rd line winger like you did with Zib last year

this is less about HFNYR's obsession with youth and prospects and more with our team's architecture going forward and the cap. He's been a 40-50 point winger, this year he's upped his game big time but its still a crazy small sample size and a short season where historically some players put up their best PPG and then never approach it again (Stepan for example). If he really has taken that next step you're going to have to pay him accordingly because he's a RFA at the end of the season. Can we afford to take that risk? We've already committed to Kreider and Trouba and that will probably hurt us down the line. Thats why you want your players to establish themselves during their ELC and not at age 25 so you can be confident you are getting what you pay for while you still have control.

 

[True Blue]

not really, because in the end it comes down to the allocation of cap space and team build. We can't keep all these wingers.

It absolutely comes down to allocation of capital. You certainly can keep all of the wingers, by coming to terms that you are not spending elite level money on an elite level center. Or you make the package for Eichel and now are paying an elite level center, but now have holes that you need to expend more capital to fill. Both positions have their pros and cons.

You alreayd know that the Rangers will be spending elite level money on D. Now decide where else. It will probably not be in goal (another reason why I advocate for Wallstedt as it gives more cost control). So its' pay the wings and have inferior centers or spend assets and capital to get the center. And then more assets to fill the holes left by such a deal.

 

[True Blue]

this is less about HFNYR's obsession with youth and prospects and more with our team's architecture going forward and the cap. He's been a 40-50 point winger, this year he's upped his game big time but its still a crazy small sample size and a short season where historically some players put up their best PPG and then never approach it again (Stepan for example).

He upped his game already last year where he was trending to a 55 point player. This year he kicked it up another notch and is trending to over 65. So split the difference. This is not a 40 point tweener. This is a 60 point, two way playing legit RW. How many of those are in the league?

 

[Rongomania]

Kakko is going to be fantastic. He is not there yet. Buchnevich is a 60 point RW. For all of the railing that you have been doing about Lafreniere and Kakko, one would think that you would not be the one annointing Kakko as top line ready.

Kravstov? Can the kid play a second of NHL time first? Changes are if all works perfectly, Kravstov can approach Buchnevich's level in another 3 years or so.

Pajuniemi? Really? No he is not a consideration. More of a fantasy.

Eichel is a completely different kettle of fish as far as a discussion goes.

Buch is pacing 80 points in a covid ravaged season. I'm waiting until at the very least the end of this season for him to prove the stats an outlier. I honestly wouldn't call him a 60pt forward until the end of next season as that is when we will have a near exact picture of who he is.

Truly looking like an elite breakout year which a lot of us have seen in him since he was a 18.