Player Discussion Pavel Buchnevich: Part VI

[NYR]

I don't agree with the majority of this, but at the same time, it does highlight just how polarized we've become in evaluating Buchnevich.

I consider myself to be harder on him than most posters here, but I find myself defending him against people calling him "lazy", or "weak", or whatever other pejorative is easy to spell.

He's already a top six forward; the debate should be about what he needs to do to continue improving.

Well yeah, the whole point of my post was about what I think he can do to improve.

How many times have we seen him get mugged along the boards and lose the puck?

It might be a whole new ball game is he was going into those scrums at 205 lbs.

 

[NYR]

Skies the limit, he needs more confidence and sturdiness. Hopefully he got a bit stronger (again) in the off season and now is willing again to go to the dirty areas. He’s got the iq, speed and hands to get to the front of the net with some time and space, he just has to be willing and able to withstand the hits, muck and grind once the defenders close in.

Unless he starts elite efforting like Vesey, then production on the offensive end is unnecessary obviously.

Exactly.

 

[member 116805]

Young still, when he matures and gets a bit stronger he will be a very good player for us. As he matures I think he will also take more responsibility defensively

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Young still, when he matures and gets a bit stronger he will be a very good player for us. As he matures I think he will also take more responsibility defensively

He's already better defensively than Vesey who seems to be rated as a 2-way player (which is weird)

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He's already better defensively than Vesey who seems to be rated as a 2-way player (which is weird)

He's a low skilled hard working NA player. Unless you're Tanner Glass you will be called a good defensive player in that situation.

 

[SA16]

NHL Reputations go as follows:

1. If Russian - lazy
2. If a good offensive defenseman - poor defensively
3. If a poor offensive defenseman - great in his own zone/pk specialist
3. If a low scoring forward - good defensively and a hard worker
4. If a tough guy who fights - important character
5. If a slow skater - bad player who you would never want on your team unless he fits in category (4).

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He's a low skilled hard working NA player. Unless you're Tanner Glass you will be called a good defensive player in that situation.

His passing is below average but he's not low skilled overall. His stick handling is above average.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

NHL Reputations go as follows:

1. If Russian - lazy
2. If a good offensive defenseman - poor defensively
3. If a low scoring forward - good defensively and a hard worker
4. If a tough guy who fights - important character
5. If a slow skater - bad player who you would never want on your team unless he fits in category (4).

You forgot -

6. If a defensemen that blocks a shot that only happened because he turned the puck over - strong defensive player.

 

[SA16]

You forgot -

6. If a defensemen that blocks a shot that only happened because he turned the puck over - strong defensive player.

You're behind the times. Had already edited that in to slot 3.

 

[Profet]

NHL Reputations go as follows:

1. If Russian - lazy
2. If a good offensive defenseman - poor defensively
3. If a poor offensive defenseman - great in his own zone/pk specialist
3. If a low scoring forward - good defensively and a hard worker
4. If a tough guy who fights - important character
5. If a slow skater - bad player who you would never want on your team unless he fits in category (4).

While I understand where you're coming from... Other than #1 (which is stereotypical, and not like the others)...

If these weren't at least somewhat true, the player wouldn't be in the NHL.

3a. if a poor offensive defenseman and not great in his own zone/pk... he wouldn't be an NHL player
3b. if a low scoring forward and not good defensively and a hard worker... he wouldn't be an NHL player

etc.

 

[SA16]

While I understand where you're coming from... Other than #1 (which is stereotypical, and not like the others)...

If these weren't at least somewhat true, the player wouldn't be in the NHL.

3a. if a poor offensive defenseman and not great in his own zone/pk... he wouldn't be an NHL player
3b. if a low scoring forward and not good defensively and a hard worker... he wouldn't be an NHL player

etc.

That is the point. There are plenty of defenseman who are poor offensively that are also bad defensively yet they have the reputation of being good and hang around the league way too long because they block shots or appear responsible in their own zone when in reality they just allow tons of chances.

 

[Levitate]

While I understand where you're coming from... Other than #1 (which is stereotypical, and not like the others)...

If these weren't at least somewhat true, the player wouldn't be in the NHL.

3a. if a poor offensive defenseman and not great in his own zone/pk... he wouldn't be an NHL player
3b. if a low scoring forward and not good defensively and a hard worker... he wouldn't be an NHL player

etc.

in practice however the ability to evaluate a player objectively is pretty hit or miss in the NHL, even for coaches and GMs. Vesey really isn't particularly good defensively, but he hustles all over the ice, and coaches love that hustle. They see it as a guy who's working hard, who's being an effective player, he's always moving! Or he could be always moving because his positioning is poor and he can't keep hold of the puck.

That said I think Vesey is actually pretty good at forechecking and kind of jumping passing lanes in the neutral zone or during another teams breakouts, and his hustle can be effective in the offensive zone. It's just...defensively the numbers haven't really born out that he's also a good defensive player, so you end up with a guy with a rep as a two way hustle player who really isn't particularly good defensively but gets a pass because of the eye test

e: while Buchnevich gets a rep as a lazy no effort player because he's not a hustle all around constantly style player even if ultimately the stats bear out the conclusion that he's a better offensive and defensive player.

Part of me is shocked that Lidstrom was never called a lazy player considering how efficient he was, didn't waste time skating all over the place, just excellent positioning and reading the play so he didn't have to

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

7. If Patrick Stefan - you shit in the sink instead of the toilet.

 

[Irishguy42]

New from Carp at The Athletic: After rocky first two seasons, Pavel Buchnevich embraces...

Really good look into the relationship between Quinn and Buch, as well as the KZB trio. Not as scathing on AV as I would have hoped, but oh well.

“I hope it’s different,” Buchnevich said, sounding as if he knows it will be. “We’ll see. It’s easier to play, for all guys, with confidence and the coach trusts you. It’s easier to make some plays, make mistakes, (then) if you take a fault, you’re out of the game; if he does something wrong and he doesn’t play after it, it’s a little tougher.”

Definitely feels like Buch and Quinn are on the same page and understand what needs to be done. Heck, they sat down and had lunch together to work things out. That's chill and I like it.

Quote from ZBad:

“Yeah, he’s been working hard this summer,” Zibanejad said. “He’s coming in with a good attitude. It’s a fresh start for him as well – a new coach, a new voice. He’s been in the league for two years now, so at some point you should feel like you should be, not settling in but getting used to and accepting that this is where you are and now you’ve come this far that you’ve gotten into the league. Now you want to be the best version of yourself at this level. It starts now and he’s looked good in the preseason games and in practices. He’s looked a lot more upbeat. I don’t know what it is – everything’s good with the girlfriend probably.

“But, no, he’s been happy. I’m happy to see that. It spreads too. It’s contagious to see guys that way, happy, and even myself, I’m more upbeat and happier now. It’s contagious from him and from other guys as well. So it’s good.”

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think its a lot easier to be more forthcoming in interviews with your native press. Hank and Zucc tell more to the Swedish and Norwegian press than they tell to the NA press. There's not even a guarantee AV ever saw the initial comments he made after last season. If he made those to Larry Brooks, we know AV would've seen them, so thats a difference. Smart decision by the player.

 

[Levitate]

confidence will be huge for Buch I think. I remember last season he started off looking stronger along the boards and working hard in those areas, winning battles, but as the season wore on and lines shuffled around, he had some slumps and the coach didn't seem to trust him, plus he got injured, he stopped battling as hard as he did early in the season.

It's a lot less about size and strength with Buch right now, I think, and more about finding and playing with that confidence to his game

 

[haveandare]

You can already tell the new coaching staff is helping him. Putting him on the PP point is a great idea, it plays right into his strengths and lets him build up and maintain confidence in the skilled aspects of him game. Also, when he has a great shift and they cut to the bench a coach usually comes over and encourages him. After the scored in the first game, a coach came over and joked with him about it, you could just tell he was happier with the situation.

Some guys need that and some guys don't. I think the new coaches recognize that, whereas with AV he did things his way and if it worked for a player, good, if not, it didn't matter. Gotta be flexible when managing people.

 

[Levitate]

Yeah Quinn has been very straight forward about needing to work with players in different ways and there's not a one way fits all way to do it

 

[haveandare]

Yeah Quinn has been very straight forward about needing to work with players in different ways and there's not a one way fits all way to do it

Crazy that this is unique or an upgrade, but that's where we are. Pretty common sense I think.

 

[Ori]

I believe that Buch have potential for a 60 pts season maybe this season or next, nonetheless I`m really happy with his progression and player development.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Is there any info on his weight? He looks so much stronger, he's harder to knock off the puck and seems to be battling for it more. He lead the team in hits in 2 of the preseason games so far. He also looks much more comfortable with teammates, I see him and Mika doing some gesture where they both cover one eye & laugh after they score.

 

[OrlandK]

Buchenvich can be our leading scorer this year. He's capable of putting up over 60 points if the KZB line stays together. Who else can even get into the 60's, maybe Zuc, Hayes, Zibanejad if he could make it thru a season healthy. The only other wing who comes close in both passing and shooting to Buch is Zuc and he won't shoot much.

 

[Rempe73]

I missed the game yesterday at 7, and watched the encore around 10, so I couldn’t follow the game on hfboards. Is it just me, or did Quinn play Buchnevich a lot less towards the end of the game? I noticed Buch made a couple defensive mistakes. Was that it?

 

[eco's bones]

He looked really really good last night. Kind of lucky on the goal he scored but had points on all of our goals. He was kind of weak in his first year--a bit stronger last year and looks stronger again this year--so he's gradually coming into physical maturity. He doesn't get knocked off his skates nearly as easily. Defensively he's got a bit of work to do IMO but I would say that about a number of our forwards like Vesey, Kreider, Spooner and maybe two or three others--so hard to fault to fault him too much on that unless you're saying the same about the others.

Hopefully he can stay away from injury this year--that will help. If he can get at least into the 50's as far as point production that would be really good.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I missed the game yesterday at 7, and watched the encore around 10, so I couldn’t follow the game on hfboards. Is it just me, or did Quinn play Buchnevich a lot less towards the end of the game? I noticed Buch made a couple defensive mistakes. Was that it?

Yea he made a few mistakes defensively, but he isn't known for good defensive play...if he keeps putting up the numbers he did in the preseason nobody is going to care about the defensive mistakes