Coach Discussion: Paul Maurice: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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Hunter368

RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
Nov 8, 2011
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Duh! But they all have the same opinion and if you disagree they all gang up even to the most intellectual posters.

So.......your saying you have an opinion that people don't agree with and you can't convience people that your opinion is right........sooooooooo.........what's your point. It's a forum, people post opinions & people challenage those opinions......you either backup your opinion or walk away.....simple really.
 

Halberdier

Registered User
May 14, 2016
4,467
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They were winning with Scheifele, and they kept winning without Scheifele. Basically, they were good all of last season.

I have my doubts about his line combinations at times, but I think it is important to consider results.

About the playoffs... The Jets had a much harder series in the Divisional Championship than Vegas, so they came in a bit tired. Also, the biggest difference in the Vegas series was the goaltending. MAF was lights-out, and Hellebuyck was good but not great. Goaltending makes a huge difference in the playoffs.

Some Jets stats from the Vegas series...

CF% 53.5
HDCF% 60.0
Shooting % 4.84
Shooting % High Danger shots 5.00 (Vegas scored on 17.5% of high danger shot attempts)
Save % 89.6

So, the Jets out-performed Vegas in shot attempts and high danger shot attempts, but were much lower on their shooting and save percentages.

Basically, the stats tell the story of a team that got out-goalied in that series. Hard to pin all of that on coaching.

It's true that they were a bit tired vs. Vegas and also it had to affect something when both wingers of 2nd line catched some "upper body malaise" just prior the Vegas series.

Also MAF was very good, though definitely not on the first game when he gave easy goals.

But where Vegas really won was their o-zone / forecheck system directed against the Jets. If you look at those goals Vegas made, you cannot blame Helle as the team in front of him played full tire fire defence, partially forced by clever adjustments Vegas did, partially because Jets are still prone to go tire fire mode on d-zone periodically. As I didn't see that too many times during the season (except for the couple of first games that were prime examples about what to not do d-zone), I though they were finally learned their lesson.

My point is that while MAF was good (not so much in the beginning, but got better), the real reason for losses were giving super easy and stupid goals against, as it's relatively easy to defend the lead and really hard to catch the lead. In some game we were able to catch the lead, but then blundered again an easy goal against (by skaters, not by Helle).

Stats tell us something, but 5 games is pretty small sample size for any definitive conclusion from stats only. Also when you are catching the lead, for sure you will win Corsi battle, but that's misleading, as the other team is often full D-mode with dangerous counter attack when opportunity is given. Score-adjusted Corsi is better for this reason, though I'm unsure if it's adjusted enough.

Studying those goals from video made me shake my head in disbelief how fragile that system was on d-zone and how easy those goals were. A Finnish hockey coach and analyst (and father of Artturi playing @ Montreal) pointed out how Vegas systematically exposed Jets d-zone play from game 2.

Btw. there is still difference between a high danger scoring chance and almost sure scoring chance. For example a 20% chance counts as a high danger chance, I guess. In theory, 4 high danger chances equals just one 80% danger chance.

I'm not saying you are wrong, as this is pretty complicated issue and to some degree everything you wrote is true. I was just so tired on all Canadian hockey journalist to parrot that MAF-story as the only truth, while not seeing obvious problems on the other end. MAF playing lights out is a Great Story, and just something that fits the media and gets parrotted. I have found out that there is only one truth that fits Canadian media at a time, and that Canadian media lacks badly more analytical take, and I don't mean Don Cherry ;-). Finnish media OTOH is often notorious for hilarious overreactions for some weak signals.
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
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My disappointment with Maurice so far, is that despite finally having quite a bit of depth and an extremely talented roster, we're still seeing a 4th line playing 5-6 minutes a night. Having said that it is far too early to make a real determination on that and circumstances in a couple of games have played a big part in dictating that.

I just want it to change.
 

MrBoJangelz71

Registered User
Jan 14, 2014
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My disappointment with Maurice so far, is that despite finally having quite a bit of depth and an extremely talented roster, we're still seeing a 4th line playing 5-6 minutes a night. Having said that it is far too early to make a real determination on that and circumstances in a couple of games have played a big part in dictating that.

I just want it to change.

I think under the context of our first four games, the volume of penalties, we. have to give it several more games before we understand how much time they are truly logging.

All things considered, the fact Ves is a rookie and Rosy barely removed, they are managing just under 7 min and 9min respectfully. Reduce the penalties and you could easily add a minute or 2 to each’s total ice time. Give it 10 to 15 more games and I could see Maurice increasing it a few more, getting them in the 10-15 min range.
 
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Eyeseeing

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No, there is always a leash. You're not married, are you? :laugh:
Lease :naughty:
Pomo did a very good job last season which was a nice surprise.
Think we need to see where we are at American Thanksgiving.
I don’t think he’s going to suddenly forget how this team works but hey Sports is a fickle thing
 

Ducky10

Searching for Mark Scheifele
Nov 14, 2014
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I think under the context of our first four games, the volume of penalties, we. have to give it several more games before we understand how much time they are truly logging.

All things considered, the fact Ves is a rookie and Rosy barely removed, they are managing just under 7 min and 9min respectfully. Reduce the penalties and you could easily add a minute or 2 to each’s total ice time. Give it 10 to 15 more games and I could see Maurice increasing it a few more, getting them in the 10-15 min range.

That's why I said this,

"Having said that it is far too early to make a real determination on that and circumstances in a couple of games have played a big part in dictating that".

But I expect it to change, it has to.
 

PhilJets

Winnipeg is Good
Jun 24, 2012
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It's true that they were a bit tired vs. Vegas and also it had to affect something when both wingers of 2nd line catched some "upper body malaise" just prior the Vegas series.

Also MAF was very good, though definitely not on the first game when he gave easy goals.

But where Vegas really won was their o-zone / forecheck system directed against the Jets. If you look at those goals Vegas made, you cannot blame Helle as the team in front of him played full tire fire defence, partially forced by clever adjustments Vegas did, partially because Jets are still prone to go tire fire mode on d-zone periodically. As I didn't see that too many times during the season (except for the couple of first games that were prime examples about what to not do d-zone), I though they were finally learned their lesson.

My point is that while MAF was good (not so much in the beginning, but got better), the real reason for losses were giving super easy and stupid goals against, as it's relatively easy to defend the lead and really hard to catch the lead. In some game we were able to catch the lead, but then blundered again an easy goal against (by skaters, not by Helle).

Stats tell us something, but 5 games is pretty small sample size for any definitive conclusion from stats only. Also when you are catching the lead, for sure you will win Corsi battle, but that's misleading, as the other team is often full D-mode with dangerous counter attack when opportunity is given. Score-adjusted Corsi is better for this reason, though I'm unsure if it's adjusted enough.

Studying those goals from video made me shake my head in disbelief how fragile that system was on d-zone and how easy those goals were. A Finnish hockey coach and analyst (and father of Artturi playing @ Montreal) pointed out how Vegas systematically exposed Jets d-zone play from game 2.

Btw. there is still difference between a high danger scoring chance and almost sure scoring chance. For example a 20% chance counts as a high danger chance, I guess. In theory, 4 high danger chances equals just one 80% danger chance.

I'm not saying you are wrong, as this is pretty complicated issue and to some degree everything you wrote is true. I was just so tired on all Canadian hockey journalist to parrot that MAF-story as the only truth, while not seeing obvious problems on the other end. MAF playing lights out is a Great Story, and just something that fits the media and gets parrotted. I have found out that there is only one truth that fits Canadian media at a time, and that Canadian media lacks badly more analytical take, and I don't mean Don Cherry ;-). Finnish media OTOH is often notorious for hilarious overreactions for some weak signals.


I always believed Jets were outcoach in both Nashville and Vegas series .

Jets were lucky to come back back in that game 3. Thankg G.

Coaching staff was to slow to adjust against vegas system after game 1.

I wonder if the teams now. Watch the vegas series and employing to the Jets.
 

Board Bard

Dane-O-Mite
Jun 7, 2014
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This is an organization that struggled to fire Noel. My guess is Paul’s leash is as long or longer than any coach in NHL. As long as the players don’t quit on him he will be in Winnipeg.

How many Stanley Cups will they have to not win before they quit on him? They've already used one.
 

ps241

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How many Stanley Cups will they have to not win before they quit on him? They've already used one.

My bet would be on the Capitals model of cup patience.

Had the Jets won last season coming from two seasons in the hinterland to the summit would have be close to unprecedented in The cap era. I am not saying it was impossible but it hasn’t tended to go that way historically. I would consider this season the first of true contention/expectation years for a cup but it’s nit a hill I would die in because losing to Vegas really stung.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
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Winnipeg
I would just like to see a bit more proactive thinking by him and for him to hold his vets a bit more accountable.

Most of his best moves have been of the reactive nature:

Moving Buff back to defense only came about due to significant Injuries to the blue line.

Moving Scheifele to the number 1 C spot and onto the first pp unit only occurred when Little got Injured

How quickly would he have made two of the most significant changes in his tenure here had he not been forced to by injuries?

Same thing this season with Morrissey and the PP. Why did it take an injury for him to make an obvious move.

This isn't a dumb guy as he spoke about Scheifele as having the skills to be a number 1C and Morrissey to be a good PP QB long before he actually made his moves. So why dies he have to wait for a spot to open up before making some obvious moves. It seems that sometimes to me he is more Interested in appeasing his core vets then he is about doing the right thing on the ice for the team.

We can even say the same thing about our forward line composition this year.
 

Slimy Sculpin

Registered User
Dec 29, 2013
1,399
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Personally, I'll reserve judgement until after the American Thanksgiving weekend but I'll still offer this now. If the Jets are in a playoff position at that time great!. If not, I think that Maurice's rope will be a lot shorter. Of course, management could care less about what I think.
 

Kaako Kappo

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Oct 12, 2016
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Too long.
 
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Peggy

Registered User
Aug 6, 2016
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I would just like to see a bit more proactive thinking by him and for him to hold his vets a bit more accountable.

Most of his best moves have been of the reactive nature:

Moving Buff back to defense only came about due to significant Injuries to the blue line.

Moving Scheifele to the number 1 C spot and onto the first pp unit only occurred when Little got Injured

How quickly would he have made two of the most significant changes in his tenure here had he not been forced to by injuries?

Same thing this season with Morrissey and the PP. Why did it take an injury for him to make an obvious move.

This isn't a dumb guy as he spoke about Scheifele as having the skills to be a number 1C and Morrissey to be a good PP QB long before he actually made his moves. So why dies he have to wait for a spot to open up before making some obvious moves. It seems that sometimes to me he is more Interested in appeasing his core vets then he is about doing the right thing on the ice for the team.

We can even say the same thing about our forward line composition this year.

The reason our lines were more balanced last year were because of injuries too

Maurice doesn't change lines unless he's forced to

I don't think the same lines from last year are gonna cut it
 
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rkp

Registered User
Mar 31, 2011
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listening to PoMO talk to reporters, he is a bit too smug at times as he tends to forget he hasn't won a SC yet....listening to all the hockey analysts continue saying the jets are playoff SC contenders/winners for the second year and yet do not understand why in the 2016-17 weren't able to do better than the record indicated, PoMo needs a bit a dose of his own medicine....he doesn't seem to be able to inspire or motivate hockey players to do/play better than sitting or putting down to lesser lines....I honestly do feel all the talent the mgmt. team has assembled, it will all go to waste as PoMo players matchups(playing the top line or buff to death every game is hardly a good move with 82 game schedule...in OT how may times have we seen buff/scief/wheeler gassed because of the minutes played, and I don't see hat changing ever with PoMo, odd he hasn't seen that as of yet especially after the vegas series.
 
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