Paul Kariya/Leaving the Ducks for the Avs in the 03-04 Season

[Hoser]

It's too bad I didn't archive the email, but I remember contacting Calgary writer Eric Duhatschek circa summer 2005 when the new CBA was ratified. He wrote an article where he claimed that Colorado still had Kariya's rights but I tried pointing out that they had lost his rights in the summer of 2004 as a result of Group V free agency. I was surprised that he responded, but he remained steadfast that his "source" told him Kariya was still Avs property, but obviously Kariya signed with Nashville shortly thereafter. Me 1, Duhatschek 0. [/coolstorybro]

Good job. Just goes to show that most of the press aren't as knowledgeable as one might be led to believe.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

I'm thinking of some irony here too.....how crummy did Kariya have to feel that he isn't on the Duck team that went all the way in 2007?! That had to be a tough pill to swallow....and your homey/bff Selanne is hoisting it...without you being there! Which was your intention going into 03-04!

It's cool to hear the Ducks retired his jersey. I imagine he has to be the franchise's leader in most (if not all) offensive categories maybe? Thinking maybe Selanne may have him beat in most goals in franchise history?

 

[Terry Yake]

I'm thinking of some irony here too.....how crummy did Kariya have to feel that he isn't on the Duck team that went all the way in 2007?! That had to be a tough pill to swallow....and your homey/bff Selanne is hoisting it...without you being there! Which was your intention going into 03-04!

It's cool to hear the Ducks retired his jersey. I imagine he has to be the franchise's leader in most (if not all) offensive categories maybe? Thinking maybe Selanne may have him beat in most goals in franchise history?

well if kariya stays in anaheim after 02-03 i don't think they win it all in 07. would they still have had enough money to bring in both pronger and niedermayer?

and in regards to being the franchise leader in the major offensive categories, it was either him or selanne at one point but getzlaf and perry have topped him in all major stats. he's 3rd all time in goals behind selanne and perry, 4th all time in assists behind getzlaf, selanne, and perry, and 4th all time in points behind getzlaf, selanne, and perry

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

well if kariya stays in anaheim after 02-03 i don't think they win it all in 07. would they still have had enough money to bring in both pronger and niedermayer?

i kind of lump kariya and joe thornton together in that respect

a variant of ewing theory, now that i think about it

 

[ShelbyZ]

Someone forgot to tell Kariya that Patrick Roy retired the previous year. Nothing against Aebischer, but you can't replace Patrick Roy.

IIRC, wasn't there speculation around that time that if the Wings didn't exercise the option on Hasek's return to the NHL, the Avs would be the frontrunner to sign him?

 

[GMR]

IIRC, wasn't there speculation around that time that if the Wings didn't exercise the option on Hasek's return to the NHL, the Avs would be the frontrunner to sign him?

I don't remember hearing that before. I don't see Hasek as the type of guy to do that. He's not Marian Hossa.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I don't remember hearing that before. I don't see Hasek as the type of guy to do that. He's not Marian Hossa.

It wasn't Hasek, it was other teams lining up to make a bid if the Red Wings chose not to take his option year for 03-04.

I know Hasek said he didn't want to go anywhere but Detroit, but he did walk pretty quickly after that season didn't work out so hot for him.

I'll bet had Holland said, "No thanks, we'll stick with Joseph", Hasek wouldn't have just shrugged and slipped back into retirement. He probably would've happily entertained offers from the Avs and other teams.

I clearly remember one of the reasons the Red Wings gave for taking Haseks option year despite pushing then well out of some internal budget, was to keep him from going to "a Western rival".

 

[Eisen]

i think the point wasn’t that any team could point to kariya’s contract as a comparison, but that in not signing what probably could have been the league’s richest contract, no agent could point to it in negotiations to raise the bar for lindros, sakic, jagr, etc.

as for 2003 playoffs kariya, i remember how invisible he mostly was. you’d watch and watch hoping he’d eventually do something awesome but it really felt like watching playoff markus naslund; super talented gamebreaker who just looked frustrated and miserable out there. he’d get a touch or almost get the puck and the play would die like someone rolling a boulder up a hill. if there was ever an anti-kariya coach, it was anaheim-era babcock. you could see a mile away there was no way he was coming back.

But we already had very high contracts at that time. Would Kariya get paid more than Jagr or Tkachuk, for instance? He was up there before, though.

 

[BHD]

Someone forgot to tell Kariya that Patrick Roy retired the previous year. Nothing against Aebischer, but you can't replace Patrick Roy.

There was more to the 2003-04 Avs than just the absence of Roy or the performance - or lack thereof - of Kariya. They (the Avs as a whole) were the definition of disappointment, but that's for another thread.

 

[streitz]

i kind of lump kariya and joe thornton together in that respect

a variant of ewing theory, now that i think about it

The difference is Kariya only got 2 shots in the playoffs during his prime, the 03 run was post prime for him although he did disappoint.


Thornton was crap or underwhelming almost every year, and he got a shot almost every year.

 

[Merya]

If you had magically healthy Forsberg/Kariya/Selanne then the team could probably outscore its problems, but Granato would still be there to make it questionable.

How was it even possible that Granato was there... Oh well, Kariya got his millions and Selänne got his recovery during the lockout. Granato got mugged I hope.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

I've seen a couple of you guys talk about Granato being a poor coach for those 03-04 Avs. What did Granato do to have the finger point at him as a substantial reason the 03-04 Avs underachieved?

 

[Terry Yake]

i think kariya/selanne being hurt and aebischer just not being that good were the main reasons for why they underachieved

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i think kariya/selanne being hurt and aebischer just not being that good were the main reasons for why they underachieved

i’m not sure what aebischer could have done. first time starter is a game out of the top ten in GP, 7th in wins, 8th in shots and saves, 2.08 GAA and .924 SV% (top ten in both), and if you care about phoney baloney stats, he was 4th in goals saved above average, 6th lowest in adjusted goals allowed, and 4th in goalie win shares.

he wasn’t patrick roy but he’s pretty low on my list of guys responsible for that season’s disappointments.

 

[The Panther]

I've seen a couple of you guys talk about Granato being a poor coach for those 03-04 Avs. What did Granato do to have the finger point at him as a substantial reason the 03-04 Avs underachieved?

Granato seemed to have a personal vendetta against Selanne. At any rate, they didn't get along, which presumably didn't help his relationship with Kariya either.

Besides that, I can't really say, but I'm sure some Avs' aficionados can help...

 

[c9777666]

Kariya seemingly never had any interest in being the face of any organization, and as such Anaheim never was the perfect fit for him. In Colorado he could have a more quiet role with a better team, which apparently was more important than money at that point.

He also seemed to be an OK fit during his brief Nashville experiment

 

[c9777666]

yes, the team made it all the way to the SCF but he was practically invisible the entire playoffs aside from his famous goal.

His 6 goals were REALLY spread out- 2 of his goals came in 1 game vs. Minnesota, 1 was in the DET series clincher, had the only goal in a game 5 Dallas loss, and of course there was the 2 famous goals he bookended the playoffs with:

 

[FinProspects]

Kariya+Selänne signing with Colorado was like a dream, I remember being just in complete (positive) shock for a while, when it happened. Just out of the blue. Its astonishing how bad the season went for them. Teemu was DONE at that point and Granato didnt like him. But just the though of having Foppa, Sakic, Selänne, Kariya in same team is still giving me goosebumps. Well, at least it was fun to play Eastside Hockey Manager with Colorado

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Granato seemed to have a personal vendetta against Selanne. At any rate, they didn't get along.

This blows me away a little bit! Curious to look at Selanne's 03-04 numbers now....ice time etc...it makes me wonder what the hell happened?! Granato want Selanne to be a solid 2-way guy or something? hmmm

 

[streitz]

This blows me away a little bit! Curious to look at Selanne's 03-04 numbers now....ice time etc...it makes me wonder what the hell happened?! Granato want Selanne to be a solid 2-way guy or something? hmmm

Selanne was always alright defensively, not selke caliber but he wasn't lazy. Pretty sure his knees were shot that year.


Always thought Granato was a complete puke as a player.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

for one game everything went according to plan...

Chicago Blackhawks
0
1-1-0-0
Prev Game Next Game

Colorado Avalanche
5
1-0-0-0
Next Game
October 10, 2003
Arena: Pepsi Center

Scoring Summary

1st Period
05:40	COL	Paul Kariya (1) Teemu Selanne and Joe Sakic
07:36	COL	Joe Sakic (1) Paul Kariya and Adam Foote
2nd Period
07:04	COL	PP — Rob Blake (1) Paul Kariya and Peter Forsberg
10:07	COL	Milan Hejduk (1) Alex Tanguay and Peter Forsberg
3rd Period
08:15	COL	PP — Milan Hejduk (2) Joe Sakic and Peter Forsberg

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Goalies

Goalie Stats
Rk	Player	DEC	GA	SA	SV	SV%	SO	PIM	TOI
1	David Aebischer	W	0	31	31	1.000	1	0	60:00

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[ShelbyZ]

I remember that as being the year Pierre Lacroix really went off the deep end trying to make the team big and aggressive.

They already had Chris McAllister, then dumped Scott Parker and paid a size-able amount (no pun intended) to replace him with Peter Worrell. They brought Jim Cummins out of retirement, and had guys like Dan Hinote and Cody McCormick on the team. They also make a trade to bring in Dennis Bonvie for insurance. Then in the 2-3 weeks leading up to the deadline, Lacroix throws away good players/prospects and draft picks for mostly a bunch of pylons and washed up vets and draft picks later than what they gave out.

This included a significant turnover on D with Morris and Skoula gone and replaced with pylons in Vaananen, Sauer and Boughner.

At forward the most noteworthy is Barnaby outside of nothing adds in Chris Gratton and Darby Hendrickson.

At goal, IIRC they were supposed to get Kolzig out of the firesale going on in DC, but instead settled for Tommy Salo.

Most of those guys are gone for nothing or ineffective once play resumes after the lockout.

i’m not sure what aebischer could have done. first time starter is a game out of the top ten in GP, 7th in wins, 8th in shots and saves, 2.08 GAA and .924 SV% (top ten in both), and if you care about phoney baloney stats, he was 4th in goals saved above average, 6th lowest in adjusted goals allowed, and 4th in goalie win shares.

he wasn’t patrick roy but he’s pretty low on my list of guys responsible for that season’s disappointments.

Take out game 1 against the Sharks and the dude was .935 for the playoffs. Not sure what else you could ask for... Wasn't his fault that everyone other than Hejduk and Sakic forgot how to score in games 2-6....

 

[GMR]

I remember that as being the year Pierre Lacroix really went off the deep end trying to make the team big and aggressive.

They already had Chris McAllister, then dumped Scott Parker and paid a size-able amount (no pun intended) to replace him with Peter Worrell. They brought Jim Cummins out of retirement, and had guys like Dan Hinote and Cody McCormick on the team. They also make a trade to bring in Dennis Bonvie for insurance. Then in the 2-3 weeks leading up to the deadline, Lacroix throws away good players/prospects and draft picks for mostly a bunch of pylons and washed up vets and draft picks later than what they gave out.

This included a significant turnover on D with Morris and Skoula gone and replaced with pylons in Vaananen, Sauer and Boughner.

At forward the most noteworthy is Barnaby outside of nothing adds in Chris Gratton and Darby Hendrickson.

At goal, IIRC they were supposed to get Kolzig out of the firesale going on in DC, but instead settled for Tommy Salo.

Most of those guys are gone for nothing or ineffective once play resumes after the lockout.



Take out game 1 against the Sharks and the dude was .935 for the playoffs. Not sure what else you could ask for... Wasn't his fault that everyone other than Hejduk and Sakic forgot how to score in games 2-6....

I've said before that trading Drury and Yelle the season before was the beginning of the end for Colorado. You trade an incredibly clutch center who was only going to become more important with an aging Sakic and an always injured Forsberg. At the same time you trade one of the best checking centers in the entire league.

And yes, they were definitely trying to get tougher after 1997. Seemed to be a common theme with them.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Granato seemed to have a personal vendetta against Selanne. At any rate, they didn't get along, which presumably didn't help his relationship with Kariya either.

Besides that, I can't really say, but I'm sure some Avs' aficionados can help...

Weren't they teammates on SJ?

 

[Terry Yake]

Weren't they teammates on SJ?

yes. selanne came to SJ in march 2001 during granato's final season as a player. so they played together for a couple months

never heard anything about the two of them not getting along though