Player Discussion: Patrik Laine

[YWGinYYZ]

But I think that you are representing him as some kind of superhuman. He certainly is mentally really strong, but expecting this kind of situation not to have some mental affect on him

Sure - it probably does to some extent. And those who are strong of will use adversity like this as a rallying mechanism to help find solutions to the problem, whether through internalizing, or team based solutions.

In any event: my main point, if you go back to what started this, is that none of us can know whether or not it affects them. I'd like to think (based on what I've been through and able to overcome in life) that it wouldn't affect me. I'd like to think that Laine's strong enough to battle through this. Others would like to think it's affecting him greatly.

At the end of the day, we're all guessing, as we're not in his head, nor in his shoes. Personally: I think he'll be fine, because of the will to overcome that he's displayed throughout his hockey career, both at the amateur and pro level.

In this post:

It wouldn't affect me. I don't know how it would affect you, or Laine, or anyone else for that matter. It's possible, but really just conjecture, and based on listening to Laine talk, I think he's far stronger mentally than you might be giving him credit for.

You concentrated on the bolded part of that statement, and not the more important part: none of us know how it affects him - it's all conjecture. Some would like to think it's affecting him greatly - I disagree. But none of us can really say with certainty, which is my real point.

 

[KB1971]

It the summer, leg strength was the issue, now mental strength?




The Preds put pressure on him & he turns over the puck, just like the last 2 years. Not much improvement. Even on the PP they did it to him.

Now he is not even trying to work with line mates and trying to go through the D... Unfortunately he can't actually move this feet and has to coast while try to deke is bad.

 

[Ducky10]

I think Laine is a lot mentally stronger and has a lot more personal accountability than some people seem to think. Which is largely why he's going to continue to improve as a player.

 

[grieves]

I think Laine is a lot mentally stronger and has a lot more personally accountability that some people seem to think. Which is largely why he's going to continue to improve as a player.

I agree, Laine will be fine even if he has to suck on turds while hearing it's a lollipop. The bigger question is whether or not the team can actually afford to waste him like this.

If Laine is a true pro, he will not let anything phase him in terms of effort level. Whatever the environment, improvement is key. Be forgiving to yourself (and others), but always be in a process of improving. Nothing drastic, easy does it, just continuous improvement. That is all. Spock will verify. (Apparently I turn into some sort of moron life coach when drunk, sorry )

 

[RageQuit77]

This season's first update to the Career stats graph. Not much to update, and not too happy to update either (or any reasons to work with all details or make special clips in better resolution for the matter.)

However, sample for this season is still so small that few games and goals can impact to the season S% curve dramatically, while Career S% doesn't anymore oscillate much even during 10GP scoring streaks/scoring slumps, but still his accuracy has never been so bad during past seasons in this time of the year than it's now.

Overall trend of last 30 or games (POs included) is something I'm not happy with. Patrik's starts over his career seasons seems to becoming worse every year (scoring-wise and S% -wise) when there also seem to be steady (tho minuscule decline) in his average TOI, more seasoned and skilled (in overall), and less sheltered he comes. That's counter-intuitive but not entirely upon him to fix.

Come on Patrik! Less Fortnite, more hockey please! Sub-PO-level shooting % is unacceptably below the par!

 

[Maukkis]

It the summer, leg strength was the issue, now mental strength?




The Preds put pressure on him & he turns over the puck, just like the last 2 years. Not much improvement. Even on the PP they did it to him.

Now he is not even trying to work with line mates and trying to go through the D... Unfortunately he can't actually move this feet and has to coast while try to deke is bad.

I don't think mental strength has much bearing w/r/t this issue. I'd say it has a lot more to do with poor competence in defensive situations and the lack of quickness. For another example, think of Laine along the boards: he sucks there too, but it's not line he gets scared of contact and gives away the puck, is it?

Laine is the one player whose mental strength can hardly be questioned. There are areas he must improve at, but that is not one, I reckon.

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

I agree that Patrik is likely very strong mentally, he certainly marches to his own drummer. But he did say last year that it was difficult to produce with little (no pun intended) icetime.... paraphrasing of course.

(Using your post as a jumping off point from here on in....)

Then over the summer, Maurice said in an interview that Patrik had better get ready for more ice time. Patrik came out on fire in the first two games, but saw limited ice time. Now he looks to be back to where he was before those two games, cold and not really into the game.

Purely conjecture, but I think it's possible that he needs to be involved more to flourish. Previous to the Jets, he was the go to guy and played a lot of minutes with a lot of responsibility, he also looks like a completely different player if you watch those videos from 3 years ago.

It's a coach's job to recognize what lights a fire under his team, and realize that players are individuals and require different motivators to get their game going. We can all say he needs to move his feet, he needs to win board battles, he needs to retrieve pucks etc..... I think the cure is that he needs to be more involved. He's basically being used as a fringe player, when he has the potential to be a superstar, not just a star. I would hope that the coach would see the benefit of having a superstar contribute to the team, especially a team having difficulty scoring.

My two cents.

I think this is definitely part of it, most people would agree Laine has his flaws as a player of course but discounting the idea that there's other factors in play is simplifying the issue especially when we have proof Laine already played more minutes and was as involved as ever in his rookie season and performed better 5v5. Also you would have to ignore all the players who get a new start or their role changes and suddenly perform way over their previous level.

 

[kelsier]

Hello Patrik.

The line might need changing, but I seriously doubt that Laine is that mentally weak.

"Might need changing"? Sorry but sometimes I find your statements strange like for instance making an actual consistent and ongoing problems insignificant, while casually waving them off like squashing a fly when in reality it's just not as simple as that. No offence intended. I'm confident Laine is 100% aware of what he can accomplish when getting just a good 2nd line center (doesn't have to be elite in today's standards), just like Stastny was and still probably is. At the same time and after some maybe 60 games being paired up with Little the most logical course of thinking would be that at this point Laine is very, very aware of the offensive limitations that come along as long as they're coupled together. He's at the point of development where he just can't yet create enough open space relying on his skating alone, which means he has to rely on both of his line mates of whom both have the exact same issues with either creating space or making the best out of it. The result is ineffective unit that doesn't really product anything at all.

For anyone stating that he would be mentally weak after being forced in a position time and time again that simply doesn't function would be absurd. For an athlete who's goal is to be the best player in the game you cannot possibly know how frustrated he probably is right now, especially after realizing that the promises made after last season turned out to have zero merit. He's averaged some 15 minute a night after being told to get ready for more minutes (from the laughable 16:31 aTOI last year) just to find himself in a situation where he has pretty much no control and is consistently misused and utilized, which absolutely has to take a toll on him. After all Laine is just a human being, just like the rest of us. Even the strongest person can take only so much and we are talking about someone's passion and dreams. When that person gets sandbagged and denied to get a real chance to battle with the other top players in the league (that's not in anyway misaligned with also being able to help your team get better results), at the end of the day you cannot expect that person to be delighted.

If he gets used in the same manner as last year while having management overlook all the exact same problems and issues for another year, would you judge or call him out if he asked a change of scenery, or in which direction would you be looking at should the circumstances lead that far? Honest question out of curiosity. As for Laine's mental strength, well he hasn't made a sound despite of having every reason to drop all the curtains starting from the very end of 16-17 until today. I doubt any sane Jets fan would ever question that particular aspect in his character. Just after 17-18 there was a case where a coach had to actually travel to see an unhappy youngster during the summer, just to reconcile whatever issues apparently linked to low ice time, team mates if what not and the particular player actually never even was in a position where he was icing second line minutes.

With that said, he got to play decent 5vs5 minutes against the Preds but it wasn't because the team suddenly had a change of heart, but because Jets were trailing and needed goals. Nothing out of the ordinary when looking back to his usage over the past two years. I wonder how many people still honestly believe that none of what has happened has absolutely nothing to do with Laine's ELC expiring by the end of the season. Oh and the people seem to have noticed that Laine's trying to dangle his way in more, which to me indicates that he has more trust in himself than the center who should be part of the creating the offence. Oddly, that's one thing I've actually enjoyed about his game this year, since he's at least being proactive in making the best out of the worst by creating offence for himself.

 

[Channelcat]

I don't think mental strength has much bearing w/r/t this issue. I'd say it has a lot more to do with poor competence in defensive situations and the lack of quickness. For another example, think of Laine along the boards: he sucks there too, but it's not line he gets scared of contact and gives away the puck, is it?

Laine is the one player whose mental strength can hardly be questioned. There are areas he must improve at, but that is not one, I reckon.

When he was at his best last year, we saw the strength along the boards. Muscling guys off pucks etc. Havent seen that at all this year, instead he seems to be the guy getting rocked. This was one of the worries I had about "skinny Laine" ...although its still too early to be concerned.

 

[19GoalsInPlayoffs]

Also you would have to ignore all the players who get a new start or their role changes and suddenly perform way over their previous level.

Most of the ”problems” with Laine would be solved* if he would get 18-20 min/game. Give him someone else as a center and give him 20+ minutes, and he would be an instant superstar.

I do know that some of you think that he has to ”earn” those minutes. But show me ONE young winger who has done as much or more to earn the minutes and haven’t been even given an opportunity.

Yeah, it’s early in the season. Just couple of games... but already the first two games showed that this b*lls**t is just going to continue. The extra effort and speed (and points!) were there. Corsi was great, eyetest passed. Result: lets reduce his TOI.

Show me one player. With decent attitude like Laine has. With similar stats. Even the fancy ones if you do believe that 80 goals in two seasons is just so meh you can not use them. I dare you. There is NONE!

Yes, I do know there are other great players in the team, you just can’t unfairly give him more ice-time than them... B*LLS**T! You. Just. Do. Not. Sit. This. Kind. Of. Young. Superstar. Period.

I’m done.

*in the eyes of Laine AND Jets fans. He would still have those little flaws as a developing young player. But he would be producing aprx 0.5GPG and around PPG pace, so no-one would care...

 

[YWGinYYZ]

"Might need changing"? Sorry but sometimes I find your statements strange like for instance making an actual consistent and ongoing problems insignificant, while casually waving them off like squashing a fly when in reality it's just not as simple as that.

It's an English figure of speech. Either / or, this and that, etc. If I'd said "needs changing", then I'd be discounting Laine's strength of character.

I remember why I rarely participate in this thread - even misinterpreted idioms are used as a provocation to argue over nothing. I've stated many times in many threads that I'd like to see the lineup tinkered with, but I'm not one to run around with my hair on fire over issues with the team so you may have missed it.

No offence intended.

I'm sure it wasn't. This is usually how civil conversations are held.

PS: hey Laine - I love you as a player. I'll be over here in the corner quietly cheering for you!

 

[Briscodog]

Please help me with something. Does a 81-55-29 line make too much sense? 55 and 26 are the two biggest "drivers" on the team and yet Mo has them playing together. With 81 being stronger this year I think that top line would be better with this 81-55-29 set up. Now 18 and 26 have chemistry. With 18's regression can't 26 drag him along a little, especially with 27 on LW? 26 and 55 will still be on this ice on the PP and that will work out great. I know this is a thread about 29 so let's circle back to him. Isn't this the best way to make use of that asset? Can nobody else see him potting 60 with 55 setting him up. And lets not forget about his underrated passing ability. I think 81-55-29 just sets up the rest of the lines better, and makes great use of 29's skills, than the way they are constructed right now.

 

[kelsier]

It's an English figure of speech. Either / or, this and that, etc. If I'd said "needs changing", then I'd be discounting Laine's strength of character.

I remember why I rarely participate in this thread - even misinterpreted idioms are used as a provocation to argue over nothing. I've stated many times in many threads that I'd like to see the lineup tinkered with, but I'm not one to run around with my hair on fire over issues with the team. Lack of hyperbole on my part should not inform anyone of my position.

I'm sure it wasn't. This is usually how civil conversations are held.

PS: hey Laine - I love you as a player. I'll be over here in the corner quietly cheering for you!

Yeah that's alright and I didn't mean you actually implied that there was a characterial weakness. Anyway, I don't like to argue for the sakes of argument and in general I'm an honest and I'd suppose you could say even a blunt person, who talks without withholding thoughts and views. Perhaps it can cause confusion when communicating with more restrained/conservative people or maybe it's just a cultural thing? Who knows, guess it doesn't really matter. What does matter is that we should all be able to be open and able to discuss matters, even if they were delicate and even concerning, cause pretending and making consistent excuses is never the right way to approach any issue (which happens here far too often than not). Of course that doesn't mean that everyone needs to be at the exact same frequency.

The happenstances surrounding Laine have been rather controversial to say the least. Yet they are real and concerning. I believe you when you say your on the same page. While it's of course out of our hands, I just hope they figure out some kind of solution cause it'd be a pity to see a fracture between Laine and the Jets. This is the first time I've ever watched every single game of NHL team for two years straight (well might have missed one or two, max!) so it'd suck to see him requesting for a trade. What he needs is ice time and a working line - pretty much what was promised. Considering the insane depth, that shouldn't be too difficult to mange. Here's to hoping, fingers crossed!

 

[RageQuit77]

On that psychological side of Laine. If there are any particular player playing in NHL currently who can both recognize his own "weaknesses", shortcomings, also being able to make honest public outcomings about issues he is struggling with - It's Patrik Laine.

But these kind personal characteristics as good as they generally are for an athlete, are also reason he can get a monkey hanging on his back easily, if or when things doesn't go smooth. He practically never points out any problems outside of his person, even if he may very well recognize such things frustrating him and impacting his own performances. He'll never say "Perkele! [add some sentence here about perceived issues in the team's/coach's/other player's performances]." So, when things sucks for him, he starts some kind of process of introspection that always try search the problem inside first, even when main factors may not be even closely related to his own overall performance. He is too soft to be completely honest in things that he has no part of or he isn't responsible for. I think he himself recognize the risk of angry, uncontrollable outbursts in situations where he feels frustrations.

Can these kind traits be considered "weakness" per se? No, but if he gets stuck to his introspection in wrong way, it certainly doesn't make easier to get rid of it.

One goal can change his entire mental set up in one night. That has happened in a past, and hopefully will happen soon again.

EDIT: in other words he has some sort of tendency for "Bad Sisu in introspection". That's common trait among Finnish men.

 

[KB1971]

I don't think mental strength has much bearing w/r/t this issue. I'd say it has a lot more to do with poor competence in defensive situations and the lack of quickness. For another example, think of Laine along the boards: he sucks there too, but it's not line he gets scared of contact and gives away the puck, is it?

Laine is the one player whose mental strength can hardly be questioned. There are areas he must improve at, but that is not one, I reckon.

Oh I agree. I was asking a sarcastic question. I think it is funny people are thinking it's a mental problem.

If anything I think he is too confident at times, trying moves he just can't make. The 1 in 10 times it actually works gives him too much confidence. Make the simple play kid & move your feet and go get open.

 

[Bruce Granville]

Is his usage some kind of cap management?
If he‘d score 50+ goals and would be PPG, his next contract would be 80m+ and couldn‘t fit under the cap without trading away a good young player.
But if he scores only 30+ goals and 45 points, he might agree to a bridge deal.

How could you achieve that?
Give him less minutes than promised and a center he can‘t play with.

Honi soit qui mal y pense...

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I seriously doubt it's cap management. If they wanted to do that, they'd move him off of PP1 as well.

The goal of these teams is to win the SC - there's very little chance they'd sandbag a player that could help them get better results. It's far more likely that the 1st line is not something they want to split up (even if they should consider this).

 

[PhilJets]

I would like to see Laine go to pp2.
Give equal ice time to both units .
See who score more goals... balance the two pp units

Then
I would like Laine to get equal ice time with line 1.

I think this request is valid.

Since Jets need more goals.
What is better than getting the 2nd highest goal scorer in the last 2 years given this opportunity to get him going.

The goal is to win the cup.
You need all your best players going..

 

[Farmboy Patty]

I seriously doubt it's cap management. If they wanted to do that, they'd move him off of PP1 as well.

The goal of these teams is to win the SC - there's very little chance they'd sandbag a player that could help them get better results. It's far more likely that the 1st line is not something they want to split up (even if they should consider this).

They can't move him off PP1 because it wouldn't be even half as good without him. As long as they make the play offs, they can keep sandbagging him ES during regular season.

 

[GaryPoppins]

He needs a good centre. He's a finisher. He isn't meant to do the dirty grind work. The other two on his line need to distribute the puck to him and that hasn't happened.

 

[Duke749]

He needs a good centre. He's a finisher. He isn't meant to do the dirty grind work. The other two on his line need to distribute the puck to him and that hasn't happened.

Well you will struggle in the NHL if you can’t do some dirty work. This isn’t European hockey with bigger ice.

 

[PhilJets]

Looking at Laine shots on the powerplay after game one.

All his one timers are not the same as before.
Not being place in corners. Its lower than usual, therefore it hits the goalies pads.
He is over thinking things.

Unlike before, he just let it go............
Because he had the confidence in him.

The most confident i saw Laine were:
First 50 games of his rookie season.
Kid was just playing.
And
When Copp started centering him.
He started to make plays OR the plays they make are getting executed.

There are people in the world that aren't meant to be be even if they are very good individually. The worst they get worst together. That is a fact.

Some don't believe in chemistry but chemistry do exist.

In love

In dancing.... 2 great dancer if they dont have chemistry and dance as one. Wont look as good.

In other sports.

Same with hockey.
Part of chemistry is knowing when your linemates going to be before they get there.

Laine had great chemistry with some of the players. He can find them across the ice , through 2 lines between an elite defenders legs.

Its too bad Laine has "little" chemistry with ELL because that is a solid line on paper.

 

[Bruce Granville]

He needs a good centre. He's a finisher. He isn't meant to do the dirty grind work. The other two on his line need to distribute the puck to him and that hasn't happened.

Exactly.
Matthews is not a good playmaker, he is a sniping center who scores goals. Period.
And he has Marner on his wing. Marner is a great playmaker and smarter than Matthews.

Just imagine Laine with Aho on his line. LW or C, doesn‘t matter, Aho is so smart, he can play any role.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Exactly.
Matthews is not a good playmaker, he is a sniping center who scores goals. Period.
And he has Marner on his wing. Marner is a great playmaker and smarter than Matthews.

Just imagine Laine with Aho on his line. LW or C, doesn‘t matter, Aho is so smart, he can play any role.

Can you imagine Laine with Crosby? Wowza. Which is just as likely as the team adding Aho.

 

[FinnJet]

I seriously doubt it's cap management. If they wanted to do that, they'd move him off of PP1 as well.

The goal of these teams is to win the SC - there's very little chance they'd sandbag a player that could help them get better results. It's far more likely that the 1st line is not something they want to split up (even if they should consider this).

Not saying that it would be about cap management, but taking Laine off PP 1 would be too obvious.