Player Discussion: Patrik Laine

[JetsFan815]

Come on, Laine and Pettersson would be amazing. And I’m sure Laine acknowledges that too.

I think you are right otherwise, and it’s really getting closer and closer to Laine getting a bridge deal and then after that choosing the most suitable team for himself. Unfortunately the Jets are not this kind of a team, at least as long as Maurice and Little are there. Maurice’s play style with dump and chase and grind, grind, grind-hockey is also something that I Immensely dislike - even when it can lead into some wins. It just is a killer of creative skill based hockey.

Yes of course we should take in sermons of what makes "good hockey" from someone who spent the summer arguing that skating in the offseason is "actively detrimental" to a player's game.

 

[JetsFan815]

Laine should not be playing third line minutes. Neither should Ehlers. That is all i am going to say for now because i am on the phone. I was not happy with the ice time last season either and him him scoring 44 with the time he got was a miracle. Its a ****ty situation and he already said last year that its hard to get into the games with the time he is getting.

You are talking about what might be, i am talking about what is

You are not talking about "what is", you are throwing a fit over ice-time in an individual game. These are not rational responses or posts. Even averaging minutes this season–Laine has the highest TOI/GM of any forward not named Scheifele, Wheeler and Connor, so by definition he is getting 2nd line icetime so far, this is in-spite of 2 of the 3 games being largely 1 goal lead affairs where it is expected that the more defensive players like Lowry/Copp would see proportionally higher icetime than they might in a normal game where they are not defending a small lead.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

You are not talking about "what is", you are throwing a fit over ice-time in an individual game. These are not rational responses or posts. Even averaging minutes this season–Laine has the highest TOI/GM of any forward not named Scheifele, Wheeler and Connor, so by definition he is getting 2nd line icetime so far, this is in-spite of 2 of the 3 games being largely 1 goal lead affairs where it is expected that the more defensive players like Lowry/Copp would see proportionally higher icetime than they might in a normal game where they are not defending a small lead.

The ice time has been shit since last season and it is still shit. That is not individual games. The games where Laine has played more than 16+ minutes are the special cases. Rest of your stuff i just dont buy. Same excuses keep on coming game after game. This is sandbagging.

 

[The Russian Rocket]

I agree with username Paul Maurice, this TOI cr*p has been going on for over a year. And the same people still come up with the same excuses; wheter it's "the season has just started, everyone will get their chance", or "line X deserved those minutes tonight". We have been hearing this same story since start of last season.

I think Maurice is the only coach playing shutdown line 18 min. a night in the regular season. That's just boring chicken sh*t hockey. Lot of people were saying how good the Lowry line was against the Kings; well how many goals did they score? Zero, with their TOI you should contribute something offensively, not just move the puck on the boards.

Chevy and PoMo are naive if they think Laine will waste good chunk of his career on the Jets 2nd line with Bryan Little.

 

[ijuka]

You are not talking about "what is", you are throwing a fit over ice-time in an individual game. These are not rational responses or posts. Even averaging minutes this season–Laine has the highest TOI/GM of any forward not named Scheifele, Wheeler and Connor, so by definition he is getting 2nd line icetime so far, this is in-spite of 2 of the 3 games being largely 1 goal lead affairs where it is expected that the more defensive players like Lowry/Copp would see proportionally higher icetime than they might in a normal game where they are not defending a small lead.

"2nd line icetime" when Lowry, Tanev, Copp have more? And by the way, the first line has 22-24 minutes of ice time. Just look at Kovalchuk, similar role, first season in the league after a long break, 23min of ice time.

I'll tell you why he has so little ice time. Because Maurice insists on playing him with Bryan Little, who is such a train wreck that Maurice cannot trust him to play more than 12min a night. Even Roslovic was better, not to mention Lowry. If you have to waste away minutes by having some wingers play with Little, I don't know why it has to be the "second line" instead of some plugs that wouldn't score anyway. That way you could play the wingers with scoring potential with actual, useful centers and get some productive ice time out of them. Jets have 3 Cs who are useful and productive, so playing the "second" line with the one who is not makes little sense.

 

[Finnished]

Dude is one of the best goal scorers since entering the league and he gets 3rd line minutes. Has this happened in any other team?

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

Average TOI so far in 3 games, 15:41
Average TOI last season, 16:29
If you're still talking about these being invidual game occurences, you're just being obtuse. Laine is not one of Maurice's go-to guys. Also if part of that is Lowry line eating minutes then what the f*** is the sense of not trying to morph that into your second line with Laine, get an actual second line that can produce offense and defend like a top 6 line should instead of having that TOI wasted on guys like Copp and Tanev.

 

[PhilJets]

Dude is one of the best goal scorers since entering the league and he gets 3rd line minutes. Has this happened in any other team?

No

Not in the history of the league.

 

[kelsier]

I haven't posted here for a long while cause my own thoughts and views conflicted badly with most other Jets fans from the beginning of last season. However now it seems that more and more fans waking up to the reality of Laine's talents being simply wasted away in a manner of which he's being used, or rather unused. After 17-18 they told him to prepare for more minutes, but where are those minutes exactly? All I see is his aTOI going south from a borderline joke of 16:31 he had last year. I can't figure even one another team out there where a 36 and 44 goal scorer would be playing 15 minutes a game. What's almost as bad as him being used in the same dysfunctional unit that could not get anything done whatsover last year and the management has to be aware of this. I don't even think Maurice would be that blind. One could make all kinds of arguments for the poor usage in the second year but there are little to no arguments left come third season where Laine turned 20 year old and is much better player than when he entered the league 16-17 (blazing I would say).

What I think is and has been happening is that the management is purposely and systematically driving his contract value down. However at the same time they completely seem to ignore the possibility of alienating him entirely. Could be a conscious risk they are willing to gamble with. I would not be surprised if he requested transfer at some point of the season and I certainly would not factor out of another team throwing four 1st rounders to grab him come next spring.

As a huge fan of Laine it just saddens me to watch all this.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

I haven't posted here for a long while cause my own thoughts and views conflicted badly with most other Jets fans from the beginning of last season. However now it seems that more and more fans waking up to the reality of Laine's talents being simply wasted away in a manner of which he's being used, or rather unused. After 17-18 they told him to prepare for more minutes, but where are those minutes exactly? All I see is his aTOI going south from a borderline joke of 16:31 he had last year. I can't figure even one another team out there where a 36 and 44 goal scorer would be playing 15 minutes a game. What's almost as bad as him being used in the same dysfunctional unit that could not get anything done whatsover last year and the management has to be aware of this. I don't even think Maurice would be that blind. One could make all kinds of arguments for the poor usage in the second year but there are little to no arguments left come third season where Laine turned 20 year old and is much better player than when he entered the league 16-17 (blazing I would say).

What I think is and has been happening is that the management is purposely and systematically driving his contract value down. However at the same time they completely seem to ignore the possibility of alienating him entirely. Could be a conscious risk they are willing to gamble with. I would not be surprised if he requested transfer at some point of the season and I certainly would not factor out of another team throwing four 1st rounders to grab him come next spring.

As a huge fan of Laine it just saddens me to watch all this.

It's obvious that Laine has been sandbagged since most of last season (until Scheifele got injured). The reason why he gets so much PP time is because it wouldn't be even half as good without him, resulting in more games lost.

 

[Narow]

Gonna be a long season... laine will have to do it himself 5v5 with little...just carry the puck more laine let little retieve it when lost xD

He probably regresses this year if this carries on....15 minutes..... c-mon

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Complaining about Laine's usage is fine. Discussing lines are fine [etc, etc]

Slagging the Jets on HFJets and hoping for Laine to leave? That's trolling when posted on a local team forum. Either refrain from doing that, or take that type of conversation to the NHL main forum. I understand there are many Laine first fans - that's fine. Be cognizant of the fact that this is HFJets, and take certain discussion to the main forums.

Thanks.

 

[Plural]

I've missed last two games. How's Laine performed. Is low TOI warranted?

I didn't think it was thay big a deal last season but guys like Ehlers and Laine will want more than 15-16 minutes per game. They might have been willing to 'pay their dues' but the time has come. If Maurice plays Laine and Ehlers 15-16 minutes for the entire season again I fear how they will react.

 

[NotCommitted]

Laine seems like a highly ambitious player, who wants to both win and be the best while doing it. I don't think he'll be happy long term in a purely complementary role even in a winning team. This is his 3rd season and only Ovechkin has scored more goals during Laine's time in the league. He has 150+ games and over 80 goals in NHL, this is not some unproven rookie anymore. Yes, he's not a perfect hockey player and he has aspects to his game he can and should improve, but also nothing in his stats suggest he's some tirefire you can't trust to have on ice. Quite the opposite actually. If you can't find icetime for that kind of player, or for a 25-30g / 60+ point winger in Ehlers, it seems you have too much depth in your roster and would be better off coaching a worse team.

 

[Plural]

Just checked for fun and last season Laine finished 34th in points. No-one ahead of him had lower TOI than he. In the entire top-100 in points there were 8(!) players with lower TOI than Laine. Most of them being in the 80-100 place.

Now there were players with only marginally more time on ice but the trend was clear. He had a good last season and this is his third season with the team. He needs to feel that he truly is being relied as one of the core pieces. Finishing 2nd in goals is a big deal. Maurice at the very least needs to give him 18+ minute games to start the season to see how he handles increased time. If Laine sees his 16.29 TOI average dropping early on to the season it might be detrimental to the relationship between management/coaching and him. I'd hate to see contract negotiations going sour because of that.

 

[LAINEC]

Maurice have to do something. Theres too many players who dont have chemistry and it show on the scoreboard. Laine and Little doesnt work. I also think that Little is good hockey player it just that he has wrong linemates. Laine 15:37

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Maurice have to do something. Theres too many players who dont have chemistry and it show on the scoreboard. Laine and Little doesnt work. I also think that Little is good hockey player it just that he has wrong linemates.

So I posit:

• CSW might get broken up, if it means getting other players going and creating better balance
• CLT is unlikely to be broken up - the sum is better than the individual pieces, and creates a line you can put up against any line in a shutdown role (plus still provide some offence every now and again).

Little is probably still better than he shows, but exhibits little to no chemistry with Ehlers and/or Laine. So what would people do with the rest of the line-up in the following two scenarios?

Scenario 1: Maurice decides that only CLT is off limits with regards to breaking up the lineup - what would you do with the lines if that's your only restriction?

Scenario 2: Maurice decides that he needs two lines that (for whatever reason) he feels are his most trustworthy lines, and wont break up either CSW or CLT?

 

[Lowered Expectations]

So I posit:
Scenario 1: Maurice decides that only CLT is off limits with regards to breaking up the lineup - what would you do with the lines if that's your only restriction?

Scenario 2: Maurice decides that he needs two lines that (for whatever reason) he feels are his most trustworthy lines, and wont break up either CSW or CLT?

Scenario 1: MattyP-Scheifele-Laine <- Proven combo
Ehlers-Little-Wheeler <-jump start 27 and 18
Connor-Roslo-Vesalainen/Dano/Lemmy <-rekindle KC-Roslo axle magic

Scenario 2: MattyP-Roslo-Laine and Ehlers-Little-Vesalainen/Dano/Lemmy

 

[1OApick]

Laine has gotten better its evident. Last game was off night for him mostly cause off usage. He got too low 5on5 time and its hard to get going when playing inconsistent minutes. Also I would love to see change to his line.

Our fourth line is so good that it should not be broken. Id love to see Copp or Roslo centering Laines line. And yes more icetime please.

Edit: Also Maurice needs to understand that we may get to playoffs with one good offensive line. But having two good scoring lines can win us Stanley Cup. You need to make moves to make this team constantly improve.

 

[Plural]

Laine has gotten better its evident. Last game was off night for him mostly cause off usage. He got too low 5on5 time and its hard to get going when playing inconsistent minutes. Also I would love to see change to his line.

Our fourth line is so good that it should not be broken. Id love to see Copp or Roslo centering Laines line. And yes more icetime please.

It's difficult to balance ice time. That's coaches job obviously, but there are so many different kind of players. Back in his prime Jagr needed insane amounts of time on the ice. Granted it was easy to give it to him since he was otherworldly offensively. But if you played him 18-19 minutes a game you'd see him struggle to get in to the flow. He had excellent fitness level and it helped him to eat the minutes his style needed. For most players that kind of deployment would exhaust them in half a season.

But it'a also really hard to get in to the groove when you play 15-16 minutes a night. You're given quality minutes, offensive end face-offs, PP etc. etc. but it's hard to keep the flow going when you're spending so much time on the bench. My philosophy is (and I realize I have no authority to tell Maurice what he should so) that if you have the players you keep two top-lines rolling on almost equal TOI. Give them the flow and feel of the game so you can have offensive players with good vibe basically 2/3 of the game on the ice.

 

[NotCommitted]

While I agree (to a degree) with the "CLT is better than it's parts" idea, I also think that might be a thing of the past. By that I mean I believe all 3 have grown a lot as hockey players by playing big minutes and having more responsibility. Also I rate Copp. He seemed awesome fit with Scheifele and Laine during Laine's rookie season for the half-a-game he played there before getting injured... talk about small sample sizes... but also last year Laine's streak of awesomeness started with Copp as the center, until Stastny was acquired.

I believe both Copp and even Tanev could probably work as "the 3rd wheel" in a good first line. I kinda miss having Armia in the roster because he was very versatile and gave options, but that's bygones. Anyway I don't think CLT should necessarily be treated as off-limits. I'd probably rather break up CSW though - I think as a line it's a bit overrated. Yes, it's a very good hockey line, but it creates problems elsewhere with the roster. Also remember what Scheifele-Laine looked like during Laine's rookie season? It didn't really matter who played the other wing, be it Ehlers, Copp or Perrault (though Perrault probably looked the best there) - they are both better hockey players now than they were back then. As good as CSW we looks, it's entirely possible CSL or ESL or PSL would be even better.

Simple option 1: just swap centers
Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine : get Ehlers going and show both him and Laine they are part of the plan, not just by words but by action. This line should be lethal and all 3 have improved their defensive play since we last saw this line
Connor - Little - Wheeler : get Little some help in a familiar face in Wheeler, also I think Connor would work better with him.

Option 2: bring out the blender
Ehlers - Scheifele - Tanev : put that motor to work!
Connor - Little - Wheeler : I guess I would like to see what Little could do with these two
Copp - Lowry - Laine : maybe not, but who knows

I seem to forget we even have Perrault. What happened to him, he's been looking horrible for so long. No effectiveness what so ever and he doesn't even really seem to have the Perrault magic anymore. Or maybe that's just my eye-test failing me.

 

[1OApick]

While I agree (to a degree) with the "CLT is better than it's parts" idea, I also think that might be a thing of the past. By that I mean I believe all 3 have grown a lot as hockey players by playing big minutes and having more responsibility. Also I rate Copp. He seemed awesome fit with Scheifele and Laine during Laine's rookie season for the half-a-game he played there before getting injured... talk about small sample sizes... but also last year Laine's streak of awesomeness started with Copp as the center, until Stastny was acquired.

I believe both Copp and even Tanev could probably work as "the 3rd wheel" in a good first line. I kinda miss having Armia in the roster because he was very versatile and gave options, but that's bygones. Anyway I don't think CLT should necessarily be treated as off-limits. I'd probably rather break up CSW though - I think as a line it's a bit overrated. Yes, it's a very good hockey line, but it creates problems elsewhere with the roster. Also remember what Scheifele-Laine looked like during Laine's rookie season? It didn't really matter who played the other wing, be it Ehlers, Copp or Perrault (though Perrault probably looked the best there) - they are both better hockey players now than they were back then. As good as CSW we looks, it's entirely possible CSL or ESL or PSL would be even better.

Simple option 1: just swap centers
Ehlers - Scheifele - Laine : get Ehlers going and show both him and Laine they are part of the plan, not just by words but by action. This line should be lethal and all 3 have improved their defensive play since we last saw this line
Connor - Little - Wheeler : get Little some help in a familiar face in Wheeler, also I think Connor would work better with him.

Option 2: bring out the blender
Ehlers - Scheifele - Tanev : put that motor to work!
Connor - Little - Wheeler : I guess I would like to see what Little could do with these two
Copp - Lowry - Laine : maybe not, but who knows

I seem to forget we even have Perrault. What happened to him, he's been looking horrible for so long. No effectiveness what so ever and he doesn't even really seem to have the Perrault magic anymore. Or maybe that's just my eye-test failing me.

Can agree with everything. Would keep option to have Perrault on the first line with this lineup.

 

[PhilJets]

No TRUE Jets fans wants Laine to leave.
That is why there is so much reaction to his usage and deployment. We try to laugh it out because it doesnt make sense anymore. As we try to figure out the reason behind it. HF should not be place to be depress.

BUT also we cannot pretend that it will not happen if his usage will be kept like this. (It'll probably change. Hopefully soon).
These are hockey players even though they get paid a ton. Even though him and Ehlers dont react publicly, in the end they all want to play. We all know it will hurt their ego deep down inside.

Its one thing for a player who wants to play but he hasnt shown anything. Its another thing if you already proven a lot and its still dont get the minutes.

We can always be positive right?
But we can also be realistic.

Sometimes being positive so much is not reality anymore. Ofcourse being too negative is much worst.


After this year it will be 4 years left to UFA.
And a lot of us dont want Laine to leave.
After this year how much the vets will have left? I mentioned before all the vets hopefully win the cup here.

Also if the coach (can i say this here?) Keeps his deployment like this. Realisticly? 1 scoring line team will not work. We know that already from Ladds years or any other team. Well, unless you have an insane goaltender.

Maybe there is a reason the coach record is what it is. We can be positive that it was 114 points last year. We can also be realistic that all over the league top to bottom Jets is rank the deepest team in the league. Some teams are better than the Jets in a key areas. But as a whole Jets is the deepest.

Im a Laine Fan, Scheifele, Lowry, Ehlers, Buff, Etc.... but im a Jets fan first.
Laine is a prize possesion that all other teams would want and will put him on top of the winger chart due to his potential alone.
I want Laine in the Jets uniform because he makes the Jets better.
Jets also dont get generational (scorer) player often. So the posibility of losing him is bad.
Im positive that it will not happen though.

If this message is not appropriate please delete.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

No TRUE Jets fans wants Laine to leave.
That is why there is so much reaction to his usage and deployment. We try to laugh it out because it doesnt make sense anymore. As we try to figure out the reason behind it. HF should not be place to be depress.

BUT also we cannot pretend that it will not happen if his usage will be kept like this. (It'll probably change. Hopefully soon).
These are hockey players even though they get paid a ton. Even though him and Ehlers dont react publicly, in the end they all want to play. We all know it will hurt their ego deep down inside.

Its one thing for a player who wants to play but he hasnt shown anything. Its another thing if you already proven a lot and its still dont get the minutes.

We can always be positive right?
But we can also be realistic.

Sometimes being positive so much is not reality anymore. Ofcourse being too negative is much worst.


After this year it will be 4 years left to UFA.
And a lot of us dont want Laine to leave.
After this year how much the vets will have left? I mentioned before all the vets hopefully win the cup here.

Also if the coach (can i say this here?) Keeps his deployment like this. Realisticly? 1 scoring line team will not work. We know that already from Ladds years or any other team. Well, unless you have an insane goaltender.

Maybe there is a reason the coach record is what it is. We can be positive that it was 114 points last year. We can also be realistic that all over the league top to bottom Jets is rank the deepest team in the league. Some teams are better than the Jets in a key areas. But as a whole Jets is the deepest.

Im a Laine Fan, Scheifele, Lowry, Ehlers, Buff, Etc.... but im a Jets fan first.
Laine is a prize possesion that all other teams would want and will put him on top of the winger chart due to his potential alone.
I want Laine in the Jets uniform because he makes the Jets better.
Jets also dont get generational (scorer) player often. So the posibility of losing him is bad.
Im positive that it will not happen though.

If this message is not appropriate please delete.

Coaches at the NHL level generally don't deploy players based on "potential alone." They wouldn't last very long if they did. I find the amount of ice time Laine gets to be a bit low but there's a few things working against him:

* Maurice is not going to break-up the Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor line. That line has chemistry, is extremely productive, and is trusted
* Laine doesn't play in all situations
* Laine isn't the "driver" on his current line which means that as his center goes he goes (when not on the PP)

Seems like the most likely solution is Maurice tries someone else on Laine's line that isn't on the #1 line.

 

[Spock]

I seem to forget we even have Perrault. What happened to him, he's been looking horrible for so long. No effectiveness what so ever and he doesn't even really seem to have the Perrault magic anymore. Or maybe that's just my eye-test failing me.

Not that long.